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  1. #101
    Banned Jaylock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Yeah, it's fine. I'm ambivalent about the whole topic by this point. I understand their reasoning for limiting flying until certain things are completed and that's fine.
    Im more specifically asking about the activities that we need to do in order to obtain the achievement.

    What perplexes me is how can people claim to like world of warcraft, if they bitch and moan about doing things they would normally do just playing the game anyway?

    I don't get it.

    You HAVE to quest the zones in order to level up. And in the natural course of leveling up, if you spent any effort on exploration and secret finding, that would complete most of the achievement anyway (at least the first part).

    I would assume that people want to find out about the various factions of the new expansion, and in so doing, gain rep with them naturally. So revered isn't really a tall order at all, assuming people are interested in the game.

    Flying completely aside, why wouldn't anyone want to complete the achievement anyway? If there was NO flying period, and there was a pathfinder achievement in the game, it seems to me that anyone who doesn't like pathfinder only connects it to flight, and they cant see past their own face and blindness.

    "Oh hey the game isn't fucking fun unless i can mount up on a whim and fly in circles"

    There is a GAME with ALL sorts of systems and secrets, and quests, and lore and interesting stories and side stories and dungeons and raids. The game isnt some one dimensional flight simulator, and that's not even close to the focus of what world of warcraft is.

    "I don't like Pathfinder" = "I don't like playing the game."

  2. #102
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Im more specifically asking about the activities that we need to do in order to obtain the achievement.
    I get it that it's an achievement thread. Would have been more productive of you to talk about it that way but that wouldn't be you would it?

    I like achievements. I have a list of the ones that I'm working on in a notepad that I keep around the computer when I log in. Achievements are not for everyone but I like having goals and the game providing some direction. I'm not particularly interested in true sandbox games where you wander around and wonder what to do next. I've got plenty of that in my real life.

    Achievements are also nice precisely because they are mostly optional. You can do them or not. You can pick the ones you want to do and avoid the ones that don't interest you. I like Pathfinder just fine even though it's a meta-achievement (achievement of achievements).

    Perfect for me and the way I play these days.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2017-11-01 at 11:52 PM.
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  3. #103
    Banned Jaylock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Even if this wasn't a jaylock thread, this sentence alone would let you know there's hardcore trolling going on here.

    The entire point of pathfinder is for flying. If you take away even the reward of flight, WTF is the point of jumping through all the hoops? Basically you're just chasing achievements, which doesn't require any special reward. You start locking access to achievements behind achievements.

    If they're going to have this kind of stupid garbage in the game to keep players chasing achievements, then the rewards for doing so damn well better be worth it this time around. Slight upgrades to movement speed to go...where? Places you've already been? Flying to areas that you've already cleared, but not being able to fly in new content released later?

    Where's the value? If all you're doing is chasing achievements for the sake of achievements, you don't need ANOTHER achievement to guide you. Just....go play the game. And even if they do give you a reward, chances are they're going to make it useless or worthless in whatever content gets released after launch.

    No, if they're going to keep using Pathfinder, then they should actually make it worth the trouble instead of just using it as a tool to keep players chasing worthless "rewards".
    Your argument doesn't hold water AT ALL.

    If you are fine with not having flight until reaching max level, then presumably, you have already quested the entire new zones to get to the fucking max level. So you would be flying to places you have ALREADY been ANYWAY.

    The point I am trying to discuss and make is that, are the requirements of the achievement fun? I think for the most part they are, but as I point out in my OP, i think they can make the achievement even better by adding dungeon, and quest requirements, even pet battle requirements.

    Add more of a variety of activities that there already is. Its a great first start, but the achievement can be made better going forward, and thats what I want to discuss, not the fact that flying is a reward for completing it.

  4. #104
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    Yes, I can fly on my alts until the end of time. Even on other realms, and other faction.

    Especially if questing is done like Legion, you'd usually do the quests for rep anyway, but WQ and rep tokens add multiple ways to a goal.

    Unlike the boring TBC same 3 dailies for 30 days ... (ogri'la)

    I still got pathfinder in Draenor even while I didn't play during it because it makes any future activity/alt/treasure there super easy.

    I like Legion's BoA rep token system a lot as well, new alts can get 3x rep before 110 which is crazy fast with some saved up 1500 rep tokens (Nathrezim tome from Argus +200% rep)
    Last edited by Teri; 2017-11-02 at 12:01 AM.

  5. #105
    Banned Jaylock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I get it that it's an achievement thread. Would have been more productive of you to talk about it that way but that wouldn't be you would it?

    I like achievements. I have a list on a notepad that I keep around the computer when I log in. They're not for everyone but I like having goals and the game providing some direction. I'm not particularly interested in true sandbox games.
    @MoanaLisa come on now. I'm pretty certain my OP clearly states that its about the achievement, and I ask specifically about the requirements to complete the achievement, even going on to suggest other activities to make the achievement offer more diverse activities for the player to complete.

    As to your notepad for what achievements you want to complete, thats actually not a bad idea. I might start doing that.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    No. it forces you to do things you wouldn't otherwise do to achieve something that should be included as a base part of the game.


    I give f*** all about reputations without mounts. I give f*** all about loremaster achievements with no mounts
    I give f*** all about exploring that tiny corner of the map that i would never ever go to otherwise, at any point in the expansion.
    Why do I have to raid for gear? Why do I have to do achievements for titles?

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by therealbowser View Post
    In most cases, yes. I love it when it's a list of things you can do on your own, so that you can fully experience the ingame world without flying before you obtain it.

    IMO, they overdo the requirements a bit and I dislike that pathfinder is something added later on in an expansion, but in terms of design, I think it's excellent. I prefer it to simply buying flying at maximum level for a nominal fee (not that I am against it, I just like pathfinder).

    In this expansion in particular, Good Suramaritan is an excellent example of an arbitrary requirement that should have never been part of pathfinder, while finding x treasures would have been a great addition to it.
    Yea it shouldn't have been gated the way it was

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    This is a fucking lie of a statement to be honest.

    People do play this game to enjoy themselves and be *GASP* entertained!
    Not really. Remove loot from raids and dungeons and see how many people are willing to do it on a regular basis. People play games for entertainment. True. However, people continue to play WOW repeatedly for the loot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    I love questing, reading lore, killing monsters, leveling up my character. The rewards are different for all people, and its not just confined to epix and flying.

    Using that logic, whats the point of an achievement system AT ALL? Great logic btw.
    It is a goal for some people to aim. Not everyone shares the goal in the game. I personally do not go out of my way to obtain them. But that is just me.

  9. #109
    Herald of the Titans Klingers's Avatar
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    I think I like Legion's far more than WoD's, but at the core of it I'll never agree with it. It's moving the goalposts. For four expansions flying at endgame was apparently just OK, something you just got with a little/lot gold at top level. Then all of a sudden it was apparently the devil incarnate.

    I know you're asking "flying aside", but it's hard to divorce my dislike of the achievement from what it's gating.
    Knowledge is power, and power corrupts. So study hard and be evil.

  10. #110
    Do it at the start of the expansion, take out the dumb rep grind and call it a day...

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by darklogrus View Post
    Do it at the start of the expansion, take out the dumb rep grind and call it a day...
    Definitely needs to be at expansion release, but I'd be OK with a rep grind still. The catch is, it can't be the kind of rep grind we've had since, what, I dunno, Cata? i.e. where an actual grind is not an option and you have to endure weeks and weeks of repeating the same 10 minutes of content every day?

  12. #112

  13. #113
    the only thing i would change about it is having it be obtainable at launch.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Do I like the idea of it? Yes. Do I like theimplementation? No.

    It feels very arbitrary. Instead of feeling that my character is on a path that makes me want to enrich myself and learn more about the world around me, I feel like I have a checklist that popped out of nowhere.

    This needs to something you can easily track, with a story behind it that compels me to move forward. It shouldn't be tied to the main storyline, but having an NPC guide you and offer hints, tips and advice while you accomplish things in a less grindy way would be a big help.
    I feel like I can get behind something like this if it also finds a way to make me care about reps I normally don't care about.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Some ideas that can be included as part of the achievement could be:

    - add collect xyz number of new pets in the new zones
    - complete xyz number of heroic / mythic dungeons
    - complete a fun quest chain spanning tens and possibly hundreds of quests
    - get attuned to xyz mythic dungeon
    - kill 50 unique rares in the new zones


    etc stuff like that would make it even better and more interesting imo.
    first off... NO.

    Altogether a list like that would just be giving everyone headaches. It would be nice alternatives, but not mandatory do everything type of shit. Complete a series of questlines (what we currently have with some additional things), OR kill a bunch of rares, OR catch all the pets, actually imo it should only be open world related events. You know, the places that would be affected by flying. So no dungeon/raid related ones at all (no flying in them except for scripted events anyways).

    I personally prefer pathfinder-esque methods of unlocking things, rather than paying some new stupid amount of gold that is going to be normalized by the inflated value of trash drops we'll get as the game exists... but tacking on steps that involve other areas of the game I'd rather not bother with (i.e. pet battles....) is just plain stupid and thinking backwards.

  16. #116
    I seriously hate to complete some stupid achiv to unlock flying, where are the good old days when you just had to pay 5k to unlock it and that's all.They turn simple things into complex ones and vice versa.This game is getting ridiculous with every expansion...

  17. #117
    Blizzard say that it is about experiencing the content, but such parts as reputation go way beyond just that.
    Reputations in the way they are implemented are not reaching the required status through simply experiencing the content.
    That is just unnecessary repetition.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Your forgot to include the part where we blame casuals for everything because blizzard is catering to casuals when casuals got jack squat for new content the entire expansion, like new dungeons and scenarios.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Your argument doesn't hold water AT ALL.

    If you are fine with not having flight until reaching max level, then presumably, you have already quested the entire new zones to get to the fucking max level. So you would be flying to places you have ALREADY been ANYWAY.
    Did it take you clearing all the zones in Legion before you hit max level? Or was the entire point of world scaling to make it so that zones you never went to before reaching cap remained relevant to a capped player?

    Furthermore, did it take you 8 months to reach level cap? Or to clear all the ground content that was available? It wouldn't take you that long even at RP walking speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    The point I am trying to discuss and make is that, are the requirements of the achievement fun? I think for the most part they are, but as I point out in my OP, i think they can make the achievement even better by adding dungeon, and quest requirements, even pet battle requirements.
    No, the achievement isn't fun in and of itself. It's just a laundry-list of tasks. The things on that list might be fun, but locking things that players like behind a wall of bullshit in an attempt to get them to spend time consuming content they might otherwise have nothing to do with is not "Fun".

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Add more of a variety of activities that there already is. Its a great first start, but the achievement can be made better going forward, and thats what I want to discuss, not the fact that flying is a reward for completing it.
    All you're doing is repeating Ions words about adding more to the list. And the only reason to do that is to force players into more grindy, time-gayed nonsense to reach whatever carrot flight turns out to be.

    Wouldn't it actually be better to make more content that players actually WANT to play instead of forcing them into it with garbage like Pathfinder?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkins View Post
    Why do I have to raid for gear? Why do I have to do achievements for titles?
    You don't have to raid for gear though. M+ and Titanforge gives you the option to play how you choose and still get results. But with Pathfinder locking flight there's no option. Play all the content exactly the way Blizzard wants(from the ground) or nothing.

    Giving players options and variety is good. Locking those options and variety behind a wall of time gates and unrelated filler is just BS.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    Not really. Remove loot from raids and dungeons and see how many people are willing to do it on a regular basis. People play games for entertainment. True. However, people continue to play WOW repeatedly for the loot.
    Alternatively, give players all the loot on the first successful completion of a boss or raid, and see how many times they go back just for the fun of it. That would be a good measure of how "Fun" the content actually is.

  19. #119
    No. I got the impression that they really didn't want flying in WoD but felt they had to, so then they tied it to the achievement.

    The one in Legion was too much.

    Maybe next time they can say that you have to capture 10 pets from the area and level them up too.

    Why can't you just buy a book and get flying that way?

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Can't find a quote, but I'm pretty sure that was the intention, that you work towards the achievement while playing the game, not 'forcing' the player out of their way to do it.

    If the achievement required people to do things that forced them "out of their way" like killing the first tier raid's heroic boss, or reaching a certain PvP rank at least once, I'm positive people would complain. Big time.
    You are 100% right there, I would be pretty pissed if I needed to PvP to enable me to do something OUTSIDE of PvP, just give me something extra to do. Spice it up a bit!

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