mob's Getting 1-Shot!

[Cempa]

As I did daily WQ's today, I realized Broken Isle mobs are getting 1-shot! I play FDK ilvl930 (which is casual) and it made me think why have gear scale so high?

Don't get me wrong, I want my gear to feel like an upgrade throughout the tiers, but to the point shit gets 1 shot?

How do you feel about it?

[bigbleach]

As I did daily WQ's today, I realized Broken Isle mobs are getting 1-shot! I play FDK ilvl930 (which is casual) and it made me think why have gear scale so high?

Don't get me wrong, I want my gear to feel like an upgrade throughout the tiers, but to the point shit gets 1 shot?

How do you feel about it?

its older content. though the argus mobs die insanely fast too, most of the time you don't 1 shot them like broken isle mobs that have 1 mil HP.

[Chuckadoodle]

They implemented mob scaling, the player base had a shit fit...

[Divinite]

They implemented mob scaling, the player base had a shit fit...

they sure did, which always leads me back to point where i think "its actually the players that are so out of touch with what they actually want".
For real, blizzard can never win.

[Cempa]

they sure did, which always leads me back to point where i think "its actually the players that are so out of touch with what they actually want".
For real, blizzard can never win.

I get that but why even buff gear to the point you'd need to scale mobs? Not only will you get push back, but the latest content would be horrible for new toons!

So hit 110 @ 7xx and highest gear is 94x? What if each tier was no more than 5% buff?

[Divinite]

I get that but why even buff gear to the point you'd need to scale mobs? Not only will you get push back, but the latest content would be horrible for new toons!

So hit 110 @ 7xx and highest gear is 94x? What if each tier was no more than 5% buff?

because then character progression would mean far too little. For the majority of people they would like to really feel the power they gain be meaningful. If you're only killing the same mob from the start of the expansion 15% quicker than the start (at the end of the expansion), youd feel like its a waste of time.
Youve gotta think in terms of effort to obtain power vs time spent, people would unsub in droves because they thought everything was meaningless.

[Aeula]

I like it. One-shotting mobs is fun for me, makes my character feel like they’ve progressed.

[Dartz1979]

I like it to gives me a feeling of being somewhat oni potent i suppose... who knows maybe one day we will be stronger than angels and gods of destructions lol.

[Constraint]

I like it. One-shotting mobs is fun for me, makes my character feel like they’ve progressed.

Fair enough. For me, it completely removes the feeling of danger from the game.

Gotta say, at no point in this expansion has it remotely felt like an apocalyptic world-ending threat, that I can only presume Sargeras himself along with his cohorts was supposed to inspire. And waltzing around Argus demolishing piles of demons in second(s) doesn't do too much to assuage that feeling either.

[Nzx]

I feel like this is just a humblebrag thread for you to start trolling about how 930 is "casual" and if you're not sitting at 930 you're bad and shouldn't be allowed to play anymore.

That being said one shotting mobs from content that is three patches old on a class with reasonably bursty damage isn't really threadworthy. Like others have said, 5% increases per tier wouldn't even be worth playing for.

[Schattenlied]

people would unsub in droves because they thought everything was meaningless.

they didn't in past expansions, when it never scaled anywhere near this excessively.

- - - Updated - - -

Like others have said, 5% increases per tier wouldn't even be worth playing for.

That I agree with, but 5% can easily be changed to like 15 or 20% per tier and we would still be far, FAR lower on scaling than we are now... So let's not act like the current power levels are necessary... 15 or 20% per tier would be plenty of power gain per tier to notice, but as it stands right now, we gained several hundred % from just hitting 110 to the end of the first tier (nighthold), you can not tell me honestly that was a necessary amount of inflation. If we gained 20% from 110 to the end of EN, and another 20% from ToV, and 20% from NH, we would still only be at +60, or +72% if you wanted the 20% to be multiplicative instead of additive, which is still a whole hell of a lot less than where we actually ended up by the end of NH... Right now, at the end of ToS, we'd only be at +80% (or +107%), when we're actually sitting somewhere in the +500% range.

[Socialhealer]

the hardest world content is currently 100-109, doing invasions at 100-109 i can't chain pull i can't solo elites without taking a lifetime, on something like a rogue or mage i can die in under 10 seconds to a small group of mobs.

hit 110, upgrading artifact to 52+ use 880 BoA gear from my main, maybe get a leggo/930/900 world boss loot, a 910 relinquished or 2 and everything is suddenly a joke and that takes a couple of hours.

[Divinite]

they didn't in past expansions, when it never scaled anywhere near this excessively.

But they have always scaled this excessively, atleast post wrath.
Think of how many end-game systems we currently have would just completely break if they didnt scale the way they did.
- Any form of catchup system and advanced endgame zones (timeless, tanaan, argus)
- There we be little to no difference between different levels of raiding (how do you balance such small power variations and justify different levels)
- M+ (you cut out 90% of the scaling and suddenly m+ is a finishable piece of content)
- Artifacts in current interation (or any power gain system) just wouldn't be viable.

[Charge me Doctor]

Yes, you will 1-shot mobs when you overgear content.

[mickybrighteyes]

they sure did, which always leads me back to point where i think "its actually the players that are so out of touch with what they actually want".
For real, blizzard can never win.

it's more that there are so many groups within the playerbase that refuse to agree on anything.

Some want things one way, others want it someway else... no one wants to agree on anything and for some fucking reason too many people demand evertyhign must be relevant. Waiting for when pet battles become raid encounters cause someone wanted it that way that no one else thought was a good idea.

[Raugnaut]

Stating ilvl for this expansion - 825.

Ending ilvl for this expansion - Probably ~970, 980.

So, 155 ilvls.

It really started in MoP though.

Starting ilvl - 463
Ending ilvl - 584-590 (Depending on Warforged, upgrades, ect).

So 130.

In WoD, it was significant, but only had 2 raid tiers. Still, went from 630 to 730-740, so a 100 increase. If there was a 3rd raid tier, we would have seen a similar increase that we are seeing now.

Even in past expansions though had a fairly significant boost. Cata - 333, ending at 410. WotLK - 200 starting, ending at 284. Granted, its only a 80ish ilvl increase, but compared to Vanilla? Vanilla was like starting at 65 and ending around 95. TBC, starting at 100, ending at 140ish.

So, really. We started with a 40 ilvl increase between start of endgame, to end of endgame. Then WotLK doubled it, and cata continued it. Then MoP doubled it again, and its been continued since then.

[Schattenlied]

Any form of catchup system and advanced endgame zones (timeless, tanaan, argus)

Would work absolutely fine... There just wouldn't be as large of a difference between pre and post use of said catchup mechanic.

There we be little to no difference between different levels of raiding (how do you balance such small power variations and justify different levels)

There would be difference, why you bothered to slip none in there is beyond me.

LFR is always lower than normal from the pervious tier so we can discard it as a problem, that leaves +6.6% per difficulty level. Plenty for different difficulties of the same raid tier, IMO.

You do different levels of raiding for other rewards, achievements, mounts, challenge... None of the people I know who raid mythic actually care about the higher ilvl gear, they just want to raid mythic to raid mythic.

- M+ (you cut out 90% of the scaling and suddenly m+ is a finishable piece of content)

By what logic? It would be tuned accordingly, the relative difficulty at the high end would still be exactly the same as it is now.

Artifacts in current interation (or any power gain system) just wouldn't be viable.

Good, fucking get rid of them, artifacts are responsible for over 50% of the damage and health pool inflation this expansion... And without weapon drops, the only exciting upgrades to look forward to in raids is trinkets.

[Divinite]

Stating ilvl for this expansion - 825.

Ending ilvl for this expansion - Probably ~970, 980.

So, 155 ilvls.

It really started in MoP though.

Starting ilvl - 463
Ending ilvl - 584-590 (Depending on Warforged, upgrades, ect).

So 130.

In WoD, it was significant, but only had 2 raid tiers. Still, went from 630 to 730-740, so a 100 increase. If there was a 3rd raid tier, we would have seen a similar increase that we are seeing now.

Even in past expansions though had a fairly significant boost. Cata - 333, ending at 410. WotLK - 200 starting, ending at 284. Granted, its only a 80ish ilvl increase, but compared to Vanilla? Vanilla was like starting at 65 and ending around 95. TBC, starting at 100, ending at 140ish.

So, really. We started with a 40 ilvl increase between start of endgame, to end of endgame. Then WotLK doubled it, and cata continued it. Then MoP doubled it again, and its been continued since then.

You are right in what you said.
But I also want to add that ilvl alone doesnt put into perspective the scaling at the time, and the point i made earlier to another poster and op.
The scaling regardless of ilvl has always scaled us immensely in power. If you did any raid in WOTLK while you were in ICC gear, you literally trivialized everything completely to the point anyone with the gear smashed the encounters to bits in seconds. This is doubly true to any outdoor content (which was very little) where you crushed mobs with 1 hit, I remember 1 shotting mobs with judgement back then

This trend has followed us all the way to the current expansion, where i still think it is a healthy thing, because people needs to be able to grow in power in meaningful ways. That being said i also think next expansion there needs to be a stat squish just to bring numbers down a bit. Would make sense.

[Hctaz]

I get that but why even buff gear to the point you'd need to scale mobs? Not only will you get push back, but the latest content would be horrible for new toons!

So hit 110 @ 7xx and highest gear is 94x? What if each tier was no more than 5% buff?

Because they have 3 different raid sizes and titanforging so.. they have to keep all of that shit relevant somehow. EN mythic was 880. The maximum titanforge was 895. Nighthold Mythic was 905 (because it HAD to be worth it to run that and replace your 895 shit) and the maximum titanforge was 925. Tomb mythic is 930 item level (because it HAD to be better than your max titanforged gear) and the cap is 955. Antorus mythic with be 960 item level. Not even sure what the cap is. It's just stupid. Our legendary items are going up to 1000 item level. Baseline 110 gear was level 800. I mean... HELLO?

But yeah, they decided that every difficulty had to have a 15 item level between it and the next one. Back in Wrath, the gear had like a 13-19 item level difference between RAIDS. Normal (normal and heroic referred to the raid size until ToC so this was 10 man) Naxx was 200 with some 213s off the last boss, normal (10 man) Ulduar was 219 with some 226s off of some hardmodes and some bosses with a FEW 232s. ToC normal 10 man was 232s with heroic being 245. Normal 10 man ICC was 251 with some 258s off of Arthas. Heroic was 264 with some 271 but like... The entire item level difference from minimum raid gear to the VERY max raid gear was 200-284. We're going to go from 835 LFR EN to 960 Mythic Antorus. And that isn't even the CAP. That's just the minimum normal shit from mythic.

[Fritters154]

It really started in MoP though.

Starting ilvl - 463
Ending ilvl - 584-590 (Depending on Warforged, upgrades, ect).

Kind of goes back to Cata, and the main issue seems to be the massive gap between late game in expansion A and entry level raiding in expansion B (graph below is tiers). Do we really need a 100 ilvl gap between a final tier and first tier? The primary reason I could think of for the gap is not wanting trinkets or tier sets to be used in the next expansion, but putting a level cap on those effects would fix that.


The end result is that from Vanilla-Wrath we had what now equates to ~251 ilvls (3 game chapters). 4 expansions later we are almost at 1000.