Spoilers, preview of Before the Storm

[Azurenys]

My thoughts immediately after reading the preview?

"Oh, FUCK YOU, SYLVANAS!"

Can we finally have this bitch die? I am so sick of the blatant Sylvanas fanboi-ism both in Blizzard and among players. Sylvanas is an irredeemably evil, stone-cold bitch who doesn't care about anyone but herself at the end of the day. She's never going to fucking change - that is her character. Period. Can we finally kill her now in some useful way that advances the plot or someone else's character arc? Please?

Yes, please!
I'm tired of this edgelord tryhard of a character... she's useless and boring, please let us loot some epix from her already.

[Mehrunes]

The Invasion ended with the Forsaken being pushed out.
Gilneas wasn't part of the Alliance the start of it but by the End it was part of the Alliance.

Alliance involving itself into Horde's war with another faction doesn't make that war a start of Alliance-Horde war. Especially when by the time Alliance got involved the Forsaken already won the war against just Gilneas and forced the Gilneans to flee. Alliance got involved only after the land was already conquered by the Horde (which is yet another disparity between your comparison to WWI). And after the Forsaken were pushed out, they managed to stop the Alliance offensive, then forced them to surrender. Gilneas is a wasteland.

Think about it from this perspective; would you want a Sylvanas which did countless villanous and evil("controversial" for all the admirers out there because my intention isn't to trigger any of you) things to start being all pacifist, nurturing and caring or would you rather at least have them keep some consistency to her character? Due to everything that transpired in the story, she has always been borderline evil("controversial") and so have been her followers, but at least they're showing consistency.

Does not starting a pointless war make you nurturing and caring now? And since when is starting such a war consistent with Sylvanas' character? She's always been pragmatic. The only time she has waged a war that was in the end futile was during the Scourge invasion of Quel'thalas when she was on the defensive and she thought they were all going to die anyway, so she decided to at least make Arthas pay for each inch of ground. She sat out of the Alliance-Horde war. After Alliance stretched its forces paper thin and used a lot of resources to make a front in Horde's Kalimdor heartland a thing. She had all the opportunity in the world to attack at least Menethil's Harbor, which even ignoring Alliance's current focus elsewhere, was in no position to defend against Forsaken army having partially sunk. Sylvanas has never been chaotic evil doing evil for evil's sake. There is no consistency whatsoever here.

There is literally no Alliance character that can make a good villain whose actions would be attributed to that entire faction, unless it is some Old God corruption, in which case the Alliance will fight it too and end up being the ones that save the day as much as the Horde(ie Benedictus, Fandral Staghelm, Elerethe Renferal and so many more).

And we need a faction-based villain why, exactly?

If you then break down the reasoning behind their hatred and aggression towards the Horde, it would be reasoning a hundred times better and easier explainable than the one Horde had when it was the first to start it. It would be a war based on vengeance and revenge, not mindless hatred. In this sense all Blizzard would do is give the Alliance even more edge as it would look like they're finally giving the Horde what it had coming for such a long time.

Mindless hatred like Northwatch attacking Barrens out of the blue? And even Garrosh's invasion of Ashenvale (which wasn't even the start of the war) was to secure resources necessary for Horde's survival, after Night Elves broke a trade treaty over an event that happened months earlier, was conducted by people who started a coup against a Horde race and which was supposed to facilitate peace between the factions.

Ok, the Desolate Council wants the Forsaken to die out. Didn't Sylvanas initially try to kill herself as well, only to find out the next destination was worse? Wasn't that the whole reason she wanted to keep the Forsaken going? If Undeath is by definition followed by damnation, she can just go to the Council and tell them dying out is a very bad idea. If their souls can be saved, then she should be acting like a saint, trying to was away all her sins, because her main motivation is escaping damnation...

It's unknown if it's a fate that awaits all undead though. We've seen some go to better places. Besides, there's no indication Sylvanas shared what she saw with anyone. Though given the uncertainty of what awaits one after undeath, she could indeed come forward with what happened to her as a political ploy, even if it's not actually a universal trait of undeath.

Realistically, there should be plenty of dead, living or dying humans (and elves) who WANT to become Forsaken. For many reasons: fear of an end to their existence, desire to protect something or someone beyond their dying breath, desire to finish their life's work, and/or having a shady past that would damn them anyway (if damning is really needed). No matter how large the price would be, we have numerous examples of people willingly damning themselves to join a faction: the Cult of the Damned, the Burning Legion, Twilight's Hammer, the Illidari, etc. How come the Forsaken are always a problem?

Those are very good points. So you can rest assured Blizzard didn't spend even a second thinking about them.

I’ll just leave this here.


“If your Horde fails to uphold honor like Garrosh did, we will END you.”

The Alliance could’ve done so then, and it can do so again but not stop this time.

Talking shit doesn't automatically mean you can do what you're bullshitting about. Given how Malfurion and Velen sat that one out, it's unlikely that even the Alliance leaders that were actually present would have walked out of there alive.

Faction war is necessary to sideline big bad threats that arise expansion in and out.

Because doing it with smaller non-faction threats like Zandalari or even Azshara (comparatively to the Legion and the incoming Void she's not that much of a deal) is impossible?

It was Genn, who wanted revenge on Sylvanas for murdering his son...

Also storywise, Azsuna happened first and we learned there that Sylvanas is up to no good in Stormheim hence why we traveled there (and also secure Aegis)

As @Coconut said, Stormheim is where you depart from Orgrimmar/Stormwind. And while there is uncertainty in regards to the player, since they could have gone to Broken Isles from elsewhere, the Forsaken ship was part of that fleet. The shipwreck from Azsuna is probably how Genn picked Sylvanas' trail after the initial battle after which Sylvanas disappeared. Besides, "no good" is not a justification for an attack when all you have is five sentences that are so smudged you can't even read even them properly.

You see nothing wrong with her hating all humans, wanting to kill them (and yeah, she wants to do that)

That was her outlook shortly after Arthas killed her. More than a decade ago.

and raise them as forsaken without their consent?

This goes directly against the Word of God on the matter.

With her wanting to inevitably prolong the undeath state of her people, against the will of many of them?

When did she say she wants to force that on the Forsaken who don't want it again? Because this snippet is the first time she learned that some Forsaken may want to just rot away and that didn't include a mention of her forcing them to live forever. She doesn't even have a mean to produce non-rotting Forsaken on a mass scale right now.

Sylvanas has always wanted to kill as many humans as possible to turn into forsaken, because they have no other way to expand or replenish their population, this isn't something new and it's not outside of her character to do it, it's the whole reason they decimated southshore, it's the whole reason Darius Crowley offered the people of Southshore the Worgen "curse", so they would be immune to undeath and she couldn't resurrect them. She cares only for her people, and wants more of them.

Graves are a thing. Also the main source of the new Forsaken. And weirdly enough, Southshore was Blighted. Which does not produce corpses that can be resurrected.

she has been this person since far before she was made warchief... Did people think she was going to become a goody two shoes as a result of her promotion?

When has Sylvanas ever started a war?

We do when they try to murder people in mass. have you read the rules of warfare here in the real world, where is prohibits the use of munitions like this against people directly? People complained, a long ass time ago in fact, and now there's rules against it... We're not even allowed to use hollow point bullets in the military.

You mean the rules that haven't existed at the level of cultural development that's comparable to Warcraft?

Riiiiight, that's why she revives people that then shoot her in the face with shotguns because they didn't want to be revived.

Because differing ideologically is impossible. Even though that's what Godfrey actually talks about.

Freedom from the consequences of your acts is one of the surest signs of plot armor, and Sylvanas is clad in it.

First of all, that's not what plot armor is, secondly wat.

Not to mention she canonically can resurrect from any number of deaths the writers please because of them Val'kyrs; dunno how that's not plot armor.

She has only 4 Val'kyr left and last time it took 3 to resurrect her. Also, you opened this sentence with an explanation of how it's not plot armor. Plot armor requires the internal rule of the universe to be bent. Warcraft has necromancy. Sylvanas, as you yourself admitted, canonically has access to necromancy. Her getting resurrected literally cannot be plot armor.

[Harbour]

In case no one posted this yet. The cover for the "Before the Storm" book would be revealed soon too.
https://twitter.com/DelReyBooks/stat...80753667457024

[Al Gorefiend]

I just imagine the Horde and Alliance have always been at war, always. It's just us the players are presented poorly in how we tie into the conflict.
Sometimes we have to be fighting the other side, sometimes we ally ourselves. But I feel like it's more us the heroes allying with other heroes, the only time the two armies of Horde and Alliance allied was during Broken Shore and Siege of Orgrimmar.
Like despite the U.S. being at war with Germany, we still respected and gave immigration status to Albert Einstein before becoming a US citizen. Einstein being a "hero" in this analogy.
So I don't think we the heroes are drafted into the war, we just happen to be of a specific race.

[Deleted]

At cold mind i realized something. She cant do it NOW. Not with Saurfang and Baine ready to challenge her at the first mistake and the Council that is undermining her in Undercity. She would need to deal with them and have a good reason for evryone in the Horde to attack Stormwind.

Also she's short in money. She need to get those before any assault. So maybe we can get past this. Maybe. Let's hope so.

[Mehrunes]

Yeah, I'm sure Lor'themar or Gallywix kicking the bucket would have as much effect on the fanbase as Sylv, because she clearly doesn't have a massive fanbase and Blizzard doesn't care about this sort of thing /s.

Given how Blizzard saw it necessary to give Blood Elves spotlight comparable only to Orcs as far as the Horde plot goes, weird choice of an example here.

If they didn't want to be revived she shouldn't have done so in the first place.

But you haven't established not wanting to be revived in Godfrey's case yet.

Should I just insert a LMGTFY here about how conventional bombings on the mainland of Japan killed more people than the nukes have, or would you not even care?

And you don't see the difference in killing a fuckton of people with one weapon of, you know, mass destruction, as opposed to killing more people with thousands of strikes? Even though chemical weapons are prohibited because of the mass destruction aspect?

I hate how all the awesome hints come out while i'm sleeping... Mrrgrrgrr.

So, i guess this long awaited plan of hers matches up with the Varimathras quotes from Antorus yeah? And to think people thought those VERY CLEARLY FORSAKEN quotes were centred around Jaina *rolls eyes*. You know, i'm of half a mind to go find those people swearing black n blue about it being Jaina and just linking them here for fun, but eh, i'll let them cry about it on their own terms.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...s-The-Alliance

From page 11 onwards, it gets really fun. Are all these people willing to finally eat their god damned words?

Page 11 opens up with you moving goalposts, whining about your personal boogeymen and ended with you making a stupid point about Lok'tar ogar. This is less of a gotcha moment you envisioned and more of forum masochism on your part.

And contrary to what you're bullshitting here, overall in this thread, the premise that it was about Jaina as envisioned by the OP wasn't generally agreed upon. Some posters just said it's unlikely for Varimathras to be up to date on things that happened after his departure from Azeroth, especially with him being imprisoned and tortured by the Legion. Particularly because he exhibited lack of knowledge about the exact circumstances of Sylvanas' rise to power in the text directed at the Horde. That some brilliant Alliance posters were unable to discern between that and saying he has to talk about Jaina is only proof of their illiteracy.

Now we know that Sylvanas may have wanted to do it for some time, which could have started when Varimathras was still around, but this is literally the newest piece of lore around. So it wasn't exactly a factor during 7.3 PTR.

Good job once again embarrassing yourself.

Aye, though as you read through the thread, there are people straight up rejecting the idea that it could be anyone but Jaina. But hey, at least i got the last laugh now?

Other than the OP, who? Where are you getting the plural from?

It's the little things in life that count.

Like you straw-manning posts from months ago? Damn, your life must be really empty if you're satisfied with scraps like this.

Edit to add: Though, my favourite is a group of particular forsaken circle jerkers going on about how Sylvanas would NEVER even dare to do something like attack Stormwind.

Gotta need a quote on that one too.

Would literally delete most of my toons and main the shit out of a Forsaken Druid. A rotten zombie bear tank? Fuck yeah!

With spider eggs customization option to keep it in line with Hillsbrad quests. That would be swell.

I'm sure you could better.

This is a fallacious argument. You don't kneed to know how to cook to know you've been served burned meal.

My favourite was, Sylvanas Windrunner, former ranger-general of Silvermoon, the Dark Lady of the Forsaken and present warchief of the mighty Horde

That one gave me Daenerys flashbacks.

Having her replaced is something good, but having her replaced by a council that does not behave like most forsaken is a bad development. I'd be fine with them if they were angry with genn ruining their plans and at Sylvanas for failing to get them the val'kyr.

I want forsaken to behave as forsaken, not a bunch of fools somehow concerned for the well being of the living.

Well, in defense of the snippet, they can not want to be immortal while still being typical Forsaken bastards otherwise. Besides, not everyone on the Council shared that position.

Just replace council with cult of machine and turn forsaken into undead cyborgs. Val'kyrs were mistake now its time for nanomachines son !

Embrace the Singularity! For the Machine God!

Now that I slept it off I think this could be red herring or something.
I mean we know that nothing can truly happen to Stormwind because gameplay, so this invasion will probably be stopped before it even reaches it.

That doesn't make this that much better.

What if Blizzard is going all out "Edgelord" and Allows Sylvannas to take Stormwind while Alliance takes Undercity?
Boom. Horde gets a plagued Stormwind Hub and Alliance starts rebuilding Lordaeron and have that as a new Hub.

There can be only one reply to this.

So it will be a heist story? Will Sylvanas drag the biggest safe from the Stormwind bank all the way to Undercity?

And then lose all the treasure during the escape, like Jack Sparrow in the last Pirates of the Caribbean movie.

Depends on the nature of said "cure," or if it is perhaps a distancing from their previous stance or direction. As for a transformation back into humans, I can see the merits to the Horde of having a largish group of loyal, sympathetic humans being part of the Horde. I doubt it would go that far, though; just as I don't think think the Forsaken would even find this cure. The point is the shift in themes - moving away from embracing the undead state (which puts them closer to the Scourge at least in the eyes of the other Horde races) to more of a rejection of it, or at least viewing it as something to work around as opposed to with.

How do you work around being a walking corpse? And there have been all kind of Forsaken with all kinds of outlooks. Some not giving a shit either way, some even rejecting the Forsaken state and/or Sylvanas. Going all the way back to Vanilla. What you propose isn't even new.

Never in a million years, something like that would require a huge amount of time. Just think all the quests etc that are linked with SW and UC.

Quests? You'd lose Blizzard's interest at the proposal they'd need to spend time remodeling Stormwind or making a new hub for humans.

@Mehrunes : While I agree with a lot that you say, I personaly believe Blizzard will conveniently forget a lot of pretty much everything.

Or they already forgot and not even out of convenience, but because they can't be arsed to keep up to date on their own story, which is why they won't recheck stuff for matching the previous story either. Then again the outcome being bound to be shit is no reason not to complain about the most glaring offences.

Alliance suddenly stopped having WMDs in Cataclysm (remember the bomb in Skybreaker's hold in WotLK?), despite being targetted by one (Thaldarah grove says hello) and losing on many sides in general.

The Alliance had WMDs even before that. Gnomes nuked their own city. Now, that could be a reason why they don't use radiation bombs anymore, but other WMDs, not so much.

MoP had Alliance face zero reprecussions from having effectively lost its major breadbasket (I mean, without Westfall, Stormwind is bound for a famine, yet... nothing happens?).

That one is actually explainable! In Cata Stormwind sent farmers to WPL to get more crops. So perhaps thanks to Druids cleansing the farms with magic, the soil got magical properties and the farms grew new crops in record time, with record yields, allowing Stormwind to secure immense amounts of grain that will last them for a decade. At least then wasting troops right next to Undercity which was bound to get them killed would have some degree of sense.

They are not going to factor in anything that would get in the way of the story they want to tell (for starters, I completely stopped believing their ability to weigh in actual combat tactics when the Horde managed to push as far as Maestra's post in Cataclysm - the Night Elves should've caused the Horde a Vietnam on steroids, yet they barely held onto Astranaar - and still, for some funny reason, the Forest Song was never even touched for... reasons?), so I wouldn't be surprised by 8.2 having a raid in either Stormwind or Undercity. Mind you, neither would really make sense, but "someone" has to fight for survival, right...

I'm not sure if Ashenvale is comparable. Ashenvale was right at the doorstep of the main hub of Horde power on the planet. No big issue with deployment here. The fact that the Night Elves, their border forces at that, were able to hold against an army that should have steamrolled them is the surprising part here. Forest Song is just Blizz having to finish the story somewhere and being lazy at the execution. The worst part of how Ashenvale was handled is the extended story though. Because when you add the various novels about it, the status of Ashenvale seems to have been attached to a yo-yo.

#NotHavingAHighOpinionOfBlizzard'sWriting

Never agreed more with a hashtag.

That's true I forgot about Rodgers and Skyfire.

I was referring to Varian starting the WotLK-MoP war in Undercity and Northwatch being the first one to break the post-WotLK truce actually. Though yeah, when it comes to post-MoP, Alliance struck the first major blow too.

I just think this whole war Sylvanas is potentially starting could as easily be started by Alliance.
It would maybe make even more sense since they're the stronger faction lorewise and if they're ever gonna do that now would be right time.
Lordaeron nostalgia is slowly reigniting with return of Calia and Turaylon + Genn also has a beef with Forsaken.
Also if Kul'tiras is gonna be included in next expac, they could take part in it too since Horde killed Admiral Proudmoore.

All good points, all lost on the train wreck that's Blizzard writing.

[Schattenlied]

But you haven't established not wanting to be revived in Godfrey's case yet.

and no one has established him wanting it. If you don't know they want to be brought back as a rotting corpse, you don't bring them back... Do you understand the definition of consent? It means they need to say yes, if they don't or can't say anything, the answer is no by default.

And you don't see the difference in killing a fuckton of people with one weapon of, you know, mass destruction, as opposed to killing more people with thousands of strikes? Even though chemical weapons are prohibited because of the mass destruction aspect?

More deaths is more deaths... I don't see how killing less people is worse.

[Aucald]

How do you work around being a walking corpse? And there have been all kind of Forsaken with all kinds of outlooks. Some not giving a shit either way, some even rejecting the Forsaken state and/or Sylvanas. Going all the way back to Vanilla. What you propose isn't even new.

Same way Leonid Bartholomew or Meryl Winterstorm did - using it as an advantage and recognizing it for what it was, not wallowing in self-pity or spiteful hatred for one's own plight. I agree that the attitude has existed since Classic, but outside very few oblique mentions it's gotten very little screen time. The Desolate Council might be an indication that a large subset of the Forsaken are beginning to move past their more nihilistic or outright aggressive postures and into something more in keeping with true allies to the Horde. In my mind, I see the difference as a contrast between Sylvanas' platform of "I will use the Horde for my (and the Forsaken's) own ends" with "I wish to truly be part of and recognized within the Horde." That would be quite a sea change for the Forsaken insofar as messaging is concerned, IMO.

[Daevelian]

Page 11 opens up with you moving goalposts, whining about your personal boogeymen and ended with you making a stupid point about Lok'tar ogar. This is less of a gotcha moment you envisioned and more of forum masochism on your part.

And contrary to what you're bullshitting here, overall in this thread, the premise that it was about Jaina as envisioned by the OP wasn't generally agreed upon. Some posters just said it's unlikely for Varimathras to be up to date on things that happened after his departure from Azeroth, especially with him being imprisoned and tortured by the Legion. Particularly because he exhibited lack of knowledge about the exact circumstances of Sylvanas' rise to power in the text directed at the Horde. That some brilliant Alliance posters were unable to discern between that and saying he has to talk about Jaina is only proof of their illiteracy.

Now we know that Sylvanas may have wanted to do it for some time, which could have started when Varimathras was still around, but this is literally the newest piece of lore around. So it wasn't exactly a factor during 7.3 PTR.

Good job once again embarrassing yourself.

Oh man, the desperation is fucking real with you. Keep trying there buddy, you might actually get somewhere in a few years!

And hey, nice effort, but the only one embarrassing themselves here today is you ya dumb fuck.

Infracted.

[Verdugo]

Oh man, the desperation is fucking real with you. Keep trying there buddy, you might actually get somewhere in a few years!

And hey, nice effort, but the only one embarrassing themselves here today is you ya dumb fuck.

Nice one, you really showed him.

[Mehrunes]

and no one has established him wanting it. If you don't know they want to be brought back as a rotting corpse, you don't bring them back... Do you understand the definition of consent? It means they need to say yes, if they don't or can't say anything, the answer is no by default.

You're the one who tried to use him as an example. It's up to you to make it a justified example. Otherwise what is claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Also, not only does the concept not apply to corpses, by default, your original premise was consenting to being resurrected as Forsaken. Stop moving goalposts. And the thing is, the choice to become Forsaken happens after resurrection and is very much a choice.

More deaths is more deaths... I don't see how killing less people is worse.

You don't see how you're arguing against your earlier point of how Blight is the devil?

Same way Leonid Bartholomew or Meryl Winterstorm did - using it as an advantage and recognizing it for what it was, not wallowing in self-pity or spiteful hatred for one's own plight. I agree that the attitude has existed since Classic, but outside very few oblique mentions it's gotten very little screen time. The Desolate Council might be an indication that a large subset of the Forsaken are beginning to move past their more nihilistic or outright aggressive postures and into something more in keeping with true allies to the Horde. In my mind, I see the difference as a contrast between Sylvanas' platform of "I will use the Horde for my (and the Forsaken's) own ends" with "I wish to truly be part of and recognized within the Horde." That would be quite a sea change for the Forsaken insofar as messaging is concerned, IMO.

Perhaps I should have phrased my question differently. Where exactly is the line between "working around undeath" and "working with undeath"? What part of what Leonid, for example, did warranted the different terminology and prevented his actions from being phrased as working with undeath? And wanting to drop dead doesn't exactly strike me as some great desire to partner with anyone. Unless the Council wants to form a cult with the rest of the Horde culminating in mass ritual suicide.

[Daevelian]

Nice one, you really showed him.

Aye, i'd go into it but i'm kinda wired on coffee as i try to stay up and catch the blizzcon stream. That and i'd rather not spend 30-60 minutes going over forming a multi quote thing, i got better things to do with my time.

And hey, i see i got infracted for that last post! I happily accept that infraction, totally worth it.

[JTHMRulez1]

Aside from the implausibility of being dead and (thanks to recent retcon) rotting for years being something curable, they'd be cured into humans. Not exactly something the Horde races like from perspective of lore and even more so not something the Horde needs (from any and all perspective).

Taking in perspective the setting. The impausibility of being dead having a cure is something that i'm pretty sure enters the Suspenssion of Disbelief treshold. But as some already said. The undeath actually being curable is not really relevant for the plot in this case.-The point is to actually have Forsaken who disagree with Sylvanas' actions and see undeath as something that it should not be passed, or generally to just oppose Sylvanas' autocracy.

[Deleted]

As @Coconut said, Stormheim is where you depart from Orgrimmar/Stormwind. And while there is uncertainty in regards to the player, since they could have gone to Broken Isles from elsewhere, the Forsaken ship was part of that fleet. The shipwreck from Azsuna is probably how Genn picked Sylvanas' trail after the initial battle after which Sylvanas disappeared. Besides, "no good" is not a justification for an attack when all you have is five sentences that are so smudged you can't even read even them properly.

Player gets to Broken Shore via Dalaran teleportation from abofe Karazhan... As an Alliance player, you literally go to Stormwind via the portal in Dalaran and your main mission is to secure Aegis in Stormheim HOWEVER, Rogers tells you about the Forsaken fleet with the suspect that Sylvanas might be in there. They're after Sylvanas because of the diary from Azsuna

[Schattenlied]

You don't see how you're arguing against your earlier point of how Blight is the devil?

No, I don't, because I'm not. The forsaken employ the plague to inflict as many casualties as possible, not to shock and awe the enemy into surrendering so that less people die in the end.

[Mehrunes]

Oh man, the desperation is fucking real with you. Keep trying there buddy, you might actually get somewhere in a few years!

And hey, nice effort, but the only one embarrassing themselves here today is you ya dumb fuck.

Infracted.

The desperation of explaining why your narrative is a giant lie? Yay me, so desperate. As opposed to you, for whom straw-manning ancient posts counts as some gratification in life And perhaps instead of flailing around you could show me how have I embarrassed myself? Did you not move the goalpost from stating that the trust between factions will be obviously rebuilt to it just being an option in post #202? Did you not complain about certain people in that very same post? Did you not make a post about how victory or death is not followed because the Horde retreated from Broken Shore in post #210 even though the motto or its practice never said a word about retreat? Are you able to offer quotes of the great sways of people claiming Varimathras for sure talks about Jaina? Are you able to offer quotes of the great sways of people claiming Sylvanas would never consider invading Stormwind? I'm not sure why I should feel embarrassed about actually accurate portrayal of that thread. Then again writing fanfiction or forming alternative versions of the world we live in has never been my thing.

[Arrashi]

No, I don't, because I'm not. The forsaken employ the plague to inflict as many casualties as possible, not to shock and awe the enemy into surrendering so that less people die in the end.

Its extremely effective strategy to discourage prolonged conflict. In a way, they save many lifes by doing this.

[Daevelian]

The desperation of explaining why your narrative is a giant lie? Yay me, so desperate. As opposed to you, for whom straw-manning ancient posts counts as some gratification in life And perhaps instead of flailing around you could show me how have I embarrassed myself? Did you not move the goalpost from stating that the trust between factions will be obviously rebuilt to it just being an option in post #202? Did you not complain about certain people in that very same post? Did you not make a post about how victory or death is not followed because the Horde retreated from Broken Shore in post #210 even though the motto or its practice never said a word about retreat? Are you able to offer quotes of the great sways of people claiming Varimathras for sure talks about Jaina? Are you able to offer quotes of the great sways of people claiming Sylvanas would never consider invading Stormwind? I'm not sure why I should feel embarrassed about actually accurate portrayal of that thread. Then again writing fanfiction of forming alternative versions of the world we live in has never been my thing.

Could i? sure.

Will i? nah. As i said before, better things to do with my time.

[Syegfryed]

Good? No. What Sylvanas is, is pragmatic. Attacking Stormwind is in no way pragmatic, especially after Alliance got their hands on a spaceship.

true tough, but see, sylvanas know she will never will be safe when Stormwind is so close to her, when the alliance wrath is so close to her, what if she think Gen could attack her? poison anduin against her? what best moment to destroy your enemy than now? after legion when thy are more fragile

who know what more things the book bring to things come to this? what im saying is, its not so absurd to imagine she going to invade SW

[Mehrunes]

Taking in perspective the setting. The impausibility of being dead having a cure is something that i'm pretty sure enters the Suspenssion of Disbelief treshold. But as some already said. The undeath actually being curable is not really relevant for the plot in this case.-The point is to actually have Forsaken who disagree with Sylvanas' actions and see undeath as something that it should not be passed, or generally to just oppose Sylvanas' autocracy.

Not even Naaru could save Bridenbrad from undeath. Even before he actually died and turned undead. There's not much of a leeway that exists in established lore for curable undeath. Unless even higher powers get involved with the Forsaken for some reason. Plus I'm still not sure of the mechanics of curing rotting flesh. Or things like having someone else's jaw (or a piece of metal) sewn into your face. And while some political shifts among the Forsaken are a nice change, I'm not even sure how Aucald got undead wanting to be cured from a piece about undead not wanting to be immortal.

Player gets to Broken Shore via Dalaran teleportation from abofe Karazhan... As an Alliance player, you literally go to Stormwind via the portal in Dalaran and your main mission is to secure Aegis in Stormheim HOWEVER, Rogers tells you about the Forsaken fleet with the suspect that Sylvanas might be in there. They're after Sylvanas because of the diary from Azsuna

Diary taken from a ship that accompanied Sylvanas to Stormheim. Does Skybreaker move through time now? Besides, nothing in the chronology of things makes the attack against the Forsaken justifiable.

No, I don't, because I'm not. The forsaken employ the plague to inflict as many casualties as possible, not to shock and awe the enemy into surrendering so that less people die in the end.

In an instant. Like WMD. Which is the point of WMDs and why they are regulated against. Shocking an enemy into surrendering isn't even the reason the person who brought nukes up painted them in negative light. This is not comparable to causing more casualties in a multitude of smaller attacks. You're all over the place right now and trying to defend nukes while condemning the Blight is nothing more than special pleading. Then again if you're already moving goalposts on one point, why not engage in other fallacies elsewhere, amirite?