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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    The other mmos ARE gaining players as wow is regularly losing them. Lets be honest wow is not an unkillable juggernaut anymore. It is getting old it is losing it's players little by little(at times a suicidal rate) am i saying it will die or be put on lofe support? No but frankly the other games are gaining traction and stealing a decent chunk of it's players. Others are retiring from mmos.

    As for full on sub numbers nobody knows them but right now 3-4 million is probably a massive highball.

    I DO wish all the games released player numbers though as in actual subs would be useful. But i know for a fact ffxiv us growing gw2 swaps between stable and unstable and eso seems to be growing as well. All while wow loses/is sttabilizing in subs meaning sometime sooner then later a game WILL surpass it.

    And WoD was not doing much better it saw obscene sub drops to the point it basically a suicide attempt. At the SAME time ffxiv startedg aining massive numbers of players as did ESO.

    I really think you are not aware how well other mmos are doimg tbh
    "As for full on sub numbers nobody knows them but right now 3-4 million is probably a massive highball." The tiniest bit of research would tell you that it is wrong. Legion is doing better than WoD, they say that every single earnings report, and they aren't referring to WoW at it's low point, they are referring to it at a similar timeframe (q2 for q2)

    So, Legion does not have under 5 million subs, that is a ridiculous thought with no backing other than "WOD WENT LOW, THAT MEANS EVERTHING LOW" WoD had such low subs because it had absolutely nothing and even when it did hit 5.5 million subs, that was during a drought, right now there are still Argus subs and expansion resubs. Legion likely stabilized at 6-8 million for the majority of it's life cycle. It had a better theme and a wider reach than MoP, which more content, and more re playable content than either of the last two expansions.

    But let's assume that WoW does have 4 million subs. That would still put it above FFXIV, which player projected estimations were anywhere from 800k to 3 million.

    Guild Wars 2 profits have been on a sharp decline lately and I doubt Path of Fire was enough to bring it back to WoW or FFXIVs level.

    ESO only went up during the Morrowind announcement and after the disappointment that was the playerbase slowly trickled down to respectable but not WoW (or FF) levels.


    The only mmorpg on the market right now that can even try to claim a similar number of subscribers or active monthly players (which 7.3 did see an increase in according to financials) is Final Fantasy, but it is generally not even disputed by their community that WoW is still leading the pack, especially considering Legion did so well with content relevancy.
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  2. #22
    and not 1 word about class changes, they really think their autistic outburst "class fantasy" was successful. we are FUCKED

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanmahaffe View Post
    "As for full on sub numbers nobody knows them but right now 3-4 million is probably a massive highball." The tiniest bit of research would tell you that it is wrong. Legion is doing better than WoD, they say that every single earnings report, and they aren't referring to WoW at it's low point, they are referring to it at a similar timeframe (q2 for q2)
    Legion is doing better than WoD on time played and when they compare the first months of Legion with the middle months of WoD. That's it.

    Legion is losing subs and it has less subs than WoD had. It shows on all sources of data relevant to subs that we have. We don't have the precision to tell what the subs are now, but they are certainly lower than in WoD, there is no question about that.

    You bought into their wording regarding Legion doing "better than WoD". Look closer at what they were talking about.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanesia24 View Post
    So basically you don't really know anything at all but continue to pretend that you do. Got it.
    I literally just facepalmed at the level of stupid here.

    I know plenty i know for a FACT WOD was bleeding players faster then ever before seen..by maybe any game. I also know at the EXACT same time ffxiv sub numbers were skyrocketing

    As were ESOs

    And GW2

    I also know legion saw a player spike but that it stabilized at an estimated 3-5 million.

    I also know during this time ffxiv hit 10 million accounts HOWEVER this is not active subs but accounts that have subbed at least once.

    Like wow ffxiv, gw2 and eso do NOT release player numbers anymore.

    The l ast estimate i can find for ffxiv(march 2017) puts it above 3 million active users insanely close to wows projected numbers.

    Wow is much harder right now but lets assume 3-5 million so we will say 4.5 million then how many are poaying gold to sub instead of the subscription? That would impact things between these two games as well. Remember this forum alone has had people saying they got a years worth if tokens and planned not to play anymore.

    So assuming the tokens are ONLY 500k that still shows ffxiv as vatching up.

    Gw2 just celebrated a player hallmark too and eso i keep seeing mentioned.

    I know plenty and the fact is wow IS getting older and likely something in the mext 3-5 years barring a miracle another mmo will surpass it's userbase.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Legion is doing better than WoD on time played and when they compare the first months of Legion with the middle months of WoD. That's it.

    Legion is losing subs and it has less subs than WoD had. It shows on all sources of data relevant to subs that we have. We don't have the precision to tell what the subs are now, but they are certainly lower than in WoD, there is no question about that.

    You bought into their wording regarding Legion doing "better than WoD". Look closer at what they were talking about.
    That and how many are buying time woth gold how much revenue comes from things like name changes or mount purchases their are ALOT of things that tie into it.

    I am not saying wow is not still top dog for now merely it is ckearly on a decline and by it's own old age is slowly losing the lions share of the market. Again i give it 2-5 years

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    I literally just facepalmed at the level of stupid here.

    I know plenty i know for a FACT WOD was bleeding players faster then ever before seen..by maybe any game. I also know at the EXACT same time ffxiv sub numbers were skyrocketing

    As were ESOs

    And GW2

    I also know legion saw a player spike but that it stabilized at an estimated 3-5 million.

    I also know during this time ffxiv hit 10 million accounts HOWEVER this is not active subs but accounts that have subbed at least once.

    Like wow ffxiv, gw2 and eso do NOT release player numbers anymore.

    The l ast estimate i can find for ffxiv(march 2017) puts it above 3 million active users insanely close to wows projected numbers.

    Wow is much harder right now but lets assume 3-5 million so we will say 4.5 million then how many are poaying gold to sub instead of the subscription? That would impact things between these two games as well. Remember this forum alone has had people saying they got a years worth if tokens and planned not to play anymore.

    So assuming the tokens are ONLY 500k that still shows ffxiv as vatching up.

    Gw2 just celebrated a player hallmark too and eso i keep seeing mentioned.

    I know plenty and the fact is wow IS getting older and likely something in the mext 3-5 years barring a miracle another mmo will surpass it's userbase.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That and how many are buying time woth gold how much revenue comes from things like name changes or mount purchases their are ALOT of things that tie into it.

    I am not saying wow is not still top dog for now merely it is ckearly on a decline and by it's own old age is slowly losing the lions share of the market. Again i give it 2-5 years
    ESO ner had major consistent, it saw two massive surges for Buy to Play and the Tamriel Unlimited update, both of which led to the game being very active now but the hype did go away and many of those players left. It still is doing well but by no means hitting Wow or Final Fantasy levels.

    The Guild Wars 2 player hallmark you are referring to was 11 million players. Ever. As in total GW2 accounts, YEAAARS go WoW celebrated 100 million accounts so it is quite different from an actual player metric, in terms of actual revenue GW2 has been doing meh every quarter (no info yet given on Path of Fires launch) but as someone who played on launch day, anecdotally I didn't see a surge of players, but I won't speal in anecdotal evidence because using that to determine an mmos health just doesn't work.

    Again. Legion sold 3.3 million in the first day, subs were believed to be around 3-4M by then anyway, and with purchases in the following week/month, Legion easily would have been at 8-9 million subs when it first released, unlike WoD, Legion has recieved a decent content update every 77 days and has done great for player retention, the tournaments are more popular, the sub is more popular, the trailers are more popular. And earnings reports indicated Legion was always doing better than Warlords of Dreanor. In both revenue, and MaUs.

    All of this would lead me to believe the expansion drop off was nowhere near as large as the WoD one, probably something more akin to the Mists of pandaria one when it dropped off but stabilized for the rest of the expansion (until the 14 month drought) so, Legions subs would realistically be around 5-6 million. Now, if this were May or July when 7.2 was showing just how mediocre it was, I could agree with the high 4M numbers but 7.3 was marketed well and did do a good job in bringing players back even if just for a month or two.

    As far as I am concerned with FFXIV census I was just going to wait until the November update to see a more accurate reading of monthly players.
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  6. #26
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    Some of these aren't even new features.

    Removing PvP and PvE servers and letting people activate PvP with a simple switch? Ehmm, we have that on PvE servers already! So they're basically just deleting PvP servers.

    Warfronts sound very much the same as the old Alterac Valley. One base against another, lots of NPCs and summoning reinforcements. Don't get me wrong, I loved the old Alterac Valley. But to somehow pretend this is revolutionary new gameplay is a lie.

  7. #27
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by haxartus View Post
    So, here are a few points about the presentation, that are not immediately obvious:

    1. None of the presenters was actually excited about what they were talking about. The whole thing was very awkward, it looked like they just don't want to be there. In some of the interviews they didn't want to even look at the camera.

    2. They had no idea about some of the things they were talking about. This is more visible during the interviews, but literally, nobody had any idea how the Vanilla thing is going to work. Or the Warfronts. We basically know nothing about them. And I think they don't either.

    3. From the previous point, it almost like the decision to bring Vanilla back was made like a week before Blizzcon, after some subscription numbers came out or something like that.

    4. The other guy was talking about what they "could" do with the new pvp switch, and he admitted to just fantasizing and actually having nothing in development.

    5. During the interview they tried to avoid questions, and then when asked a second time (thanks to the interviewers), they acted like they never thought about it, like the garrison/class hall missions.

    6. The sub races start at level 20 because they don't want to create new starting zones for them.

    From all of this, I think a few conclusions can be made:

    1. Subscription numbers did not increase during Legion. The subscription numbers declined less than in WoD, but nevertheless it is a decrease in active and paying subscribers. The expansion did not bring many new players either.

    2. WoW is their biggest project with the largest development cost and most development time, and yet games like Hearthstone have like 10 times more active players with development costs 1/10 of WoW's. Blizzard is starting to feel like the whole thing is not worth it.

    3. Everyone on the team who was good was moved to other projects or is going to leave the team soon.

    4. The current team knows that the entire game is on life support at this point. You can feel how tired they were out of all of this during the presentation.

    5. Everything that they are doing has the exact goal of squeezing as much money out of the players as possible before it's over.
    Your second point is a big red flag, IMO. I don't think I've seen an expansion announced with this lack of direction EVER. And that's counting the Cata reveal that was just concept art and the WoD reveal that was "here's what we'd like to do with Garrisons" and then half that stuff was cut. Basically all we were told was "we want to make new, smarter, AI and use it to replicate PvP in PvE."

    Also for sure agree on WoW: Classic being a knee jerk. As I've said a few times in the last day, I want to see what the sub numbers were last quarter. Because I'm guessing they're at late WoD levels, or worse.

    Honestly I think life support begins with this expansion. They have the Void Lords in their back pocket they can pull out if the game suddenly jolts back into life, but I think, as we all predicted for years, Sargeras was meant to be the period on WoW's story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balager View Post
    My problem is that the expansion doesn't seem to adress the problems with wow.

    Races have too few customization optioon:
    - Unlock variants of those races with less class options, but more racial cosmetics.

    Some starting zones are decades old
    - Leave it at that

    People have been waiting for Worgen/Goblin models since WoD
    -Let them wait

    Story flow in leveling is a complete clusterfuck
    -Let's let players skip over continents to make the story even more confusing

    The game is not alt friendly
    -Let's force the players to make even more alts

    Class design in Legion was the opposite of popular
    -No info regarding any change

    WoW is the only high profile MMO without housing
    -And will continue to be



    Another thing that's bothering me is, what will it be about? Blizzard doesn't write faction war very well, yet this time it seems that it will be faction war from beginning to end. With us not knowing what said beginning and end will be.
    Honestly the lack of a world revamp is baffling to me. Especially given how in Q&As prior to Blizzcon even Ion was saying "we've been in the Cataclysm zones for about as long as we were in the Classic zones." Then he gets up on stage and says "the stories still hold up."

    The stories don't hold up at all, and it's BECAUSE of Cataclysm that they don't. Blizz decided to totally remake 1-60 rather than remaster or revamp it. So now instead of a clear linear storyline of Classic, BC, Wrath, Cata.... we're now stuck with potentially Cata, Wrath, BC, MoP, Cata, WoD, Legion, BFA.

    If you're keeping score at home, on a Nightborne that would go roughly:
    Garrosh is calling Sylvanas a bitch, Oh hey Garrosh is a random general in the Northrend Campaign, oh hey Garrosh is this whiny emo kid in Garadar, oh hey Garrosh is now this crazy dictator, oh hey the world just broke and now Garrosh has become Warchief, oh hey Garrosh went back in time and is a crazy dictator again, oh nice the bubble over my city is gone and I know the Horde exists now, oh hey the Horde wants me to join their faction now.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by yaj View Post
    I have to agree... the whole presentation/announcement stank of blizzcon 2013(?) when they announced WoD with the same excitement (or lack of it!).
    I was at Blizzcon 2013 that room was literally buzzing. Everyone was fucking pumped so I have no idea what you were talking about.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Rassman View Post
    I was at Blizzcon 2013 that room was literally buzzing. Everyone was fucking pumped so I have no idea what you were talking about.
    People were expecting more of the same of Mists.
    They should've expected more of the same of Cataclysm.
    Same again here.
    It became clear that it wasn’t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hardcore, as it had been in the past. -- Tom Chilton

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by haxartus View Post
    So, here are a few points about the presentation, that are not immediately obvious:

    1. None of the presenters was actually excited about what they were talking about. The whole thing was very awkward, it looked like they just don't want to be there. In some of the interviews they didn't want to even look at the camera.
    Awkward nerds being awkward? These guys aren't all public speakers and thats a HUGE audience if you're not. Ion on the other hand was literally VIBRATING with excitement.

    Quote Originally Posted by haxartus View Post
    2. They had no idea about some of the things they were talking about. This is more visible during the interviews, but literally, nobody had any idea how the Vanilla thing is going to work. Or the Warfronts. We basically know nothing about them. And I think they don't either.
    It's not uncommon for multiple systems to be only on paper at the time of announcement, also its hard to say anything this early because if they change it people will yell about being promised. And vanilla seems VERY early in development of a way to do it, they basically said don't expect it soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by haxartus View Post
    3. From the previous point, it almost like the decision to bring Vanilla back was made like a week before Blizzcon, after some subscription numbers came out or something like that.
    or you know... they just got the go ahead weeks before blizzcon? in a business it takes time to get things approved

    Quote Originally Posted by haxartus View Post
    4. The other guy was talking about what they "could" do with the new pvp switch, and he admitted to just fantasizing and actually having nothing in development.
    Once again, systems are something they lay out, they may not be complete, and he "fantasizes" about it because if he says anything but that the community takes it as a promise.

    Quote Originally Posted by haxartus View Post
    5. During the interview they tried to avoid questions, and then when asked a second time (thanks to the interviewers), they acted like they never thought about it, like the garrison/class hall missions.
    or they don't have an answer they're allowed to give

    Quote Originally Posted by haxartus View Post
    6. The sub races start at level 20 because they don't want to create new starting zones for them.
    arguments on both sides of that are rather silly, why not just start them at 110? and why do they need starter zones? seems like wasted development time.

    Quote Originally Posted by haxartus View Post
    From all of this, I think a few conclusions can be made:

    1. Subscription numbers did not increase during Legion. The subscription numbers declined less than in WoD, but nevertheless it is a decrease in active and paying subscribers. The expansion did not bring many new players either.
    They're stable or slightly higher, its not speculation it's investor calls, and stable for wow is still amazing, its freaking 13 years old and maintaining MILLIONS.

    Quote Originally Posted by haxartus View Post
    2. WoW is their biggest project with the largest development cost and most development time, and yet games like Hearthstone have like 10 times more active players with development costs 1/10 of WoW's. Blizzard is starting to feel like the whole thing is not worth it.
    This just in, free games have more players! Trust me, wow makes plenty of money to make its development worthwhile, there's zero question.

    Quote Originally Posted by haxartus View Post
    3. Everyone on the team who was good was moved to other projects or is going to leave the team soon.
    There hasn't been hint of anyone else leaving, and much like teachers, its good to get new eyes in. Working on the same thing for years also gets tiring, most people don't spend 10+ years doing the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by haxartus View Post
    4. The current team knows that the entire game is on life support at this point. You can feel how tired they were out of all of this during the presentation.
    Right, you can't speculate either way on that, its just your thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by haxartus View Post
    5. Everything that they are doing has the exact goal of squeezing as much money out of the players as possible before it's over.
    Again, just what you think lol, there's zero actual proof of that or proof that it's not happening.

  11. #31
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    The stories don't hold up at all, and it's BECAUSE of Cataclysm that they don't. Blizz decided to totally remake 1-60 rather than remaster or revamp it. So now instead of a clear linear storyline of Classic, BC, Wrath, Cata.... we're now stuck with potentially Cata, Wrath, BC, MoP, Cata, WoD, Legion, BFA.
    Let's see how things go.

    Default experience: Cata - TBC - WotLK - Cata - MoP(with Vale already corrupterd mind you) - WoD - Legion- BfA
    Troll: Same as above but Vol'Jin alive and complaining about Garrosh on the echo isles, but long dead on the other side of Durotar
    Belf/Draenei: TBC - Cata - TBC -WotLK - Cata - MoP - WoD - Legion- BfA
    Pandaren: MoP - Cata - TBC- WotLK - Cata - MoP - WoD - Legion- BfA
    DK: WotLK - Cata - TBC- WotLK - Cata - MoP - WoD - Legion- BfA
    Lightforged/Void Elves/Highmountain/Nightborn: Legion- Cata- TBC- WotLK - Cata - MoP - WoD- Legion - BfA
    Zandalari/Dark Iron Dwarves(possibly): BfA- Cata- WotLK- Cata- MoP- WoD- Legion- BfA

    The only one to avoid any clusterfuck is the Demunter hunter that starts with Legion

    And that's not even mentioning that there is a very noticable difference visually between pre and post MoP zones. I love Gilneas but even the cata zones are miles behind. And the ones that never got a revamp....ugh

  12. #32
    MoP vibes...which means I am prepared to be excited with surprises.

    The one thing that is bothering me still is what are they going to do with the level 120 talents....

  13. #33
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    MoP vibes...which means I am prepared to be excited with surprises.

    The one thing that is bothering me still is what are they going to do with the level 120 talents....
    Some got baked into classes, others became 110 talents, others are just gone.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Balager View Post
    Let's see how things go.

    Default experience: Cata - TBC - WotLK - Cata - MoP(with Vale already corrupterd mind you) - WoD - Legion- BfA
    Troll: Same as above but Vol'Jin alive and complaining about Garrosh on the echo isles, but long dead on the other side of Durotar
    Belf/Draenei: TBC - Cata - TBC -WotLK - Cata - MoP - WoD - Legion- BfA
    Pandaren: MoP - Cata - TBC- WotLK - Cata - MoP - WoD - Legion- BfA
    DK: WotLK - Cata - TBC- WotLK - Cata - MoP - WoD - Legion- BfA
    Lightforged/Void Elves/Highmountain/Nightborn: Legion- Cata- TBC- WotLK - Cata - MoP - WoD- Legion - BfA
    Zandalari/Dark Iron Dwarves(possibly): BfA- Cata- WotLK- Cata- MoP- WoD- Legion- BfA

    The only one to avoid any clusterfuck is the Demunter hunter that starts with Legion

    And that's not even mentioning that there is a very noticable difference visually between pre and post MoP zones. I love Gilneas but even the cata zones are miles behind. And the ones that never got a revamp....ugh
    It's a mess. Honestly Cataclysm has caused more issues than it solved. At least an Old World revamp, and sticking Outland in the Caverns of Time, would alleviate parts of that.
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    I literally just facepalmed at the level of stupid here.

    I know plenty i know for a FACT WOD was bleeding players faster then ever before seen..by maybe any game. I also know at the EXACT same time ffxiv sub numbers were skyrocketing

    As were ESOs

    And GW2

    I also know legion saw a player spike but that it stabilized at an estimated 3-5 million.

    I also know during this time ffxiv hit 10 million accounts HOWEVER this is not active subs but accounts that have subbed at least once.

    Like wow ffxiv, gw2 and eso do NOT release player numbers anymore.

    The l ast estimate i can find for ffxiv(march 2017) puts it above 3 million active users insanely close to wows projected numbers.

    Wow is much harder right now but lets assume 3-5 million so we will say 4.5 million then how many are poaying gold to sub instead of the subscription? That would impact things between these two games as well. Remember this forum alone has had people saying they got a years worth if tokens and planned not to play anymore.

    So assuming the tokens are ONLY 500k that still shows ffxiv as vatching up.

    Gw2 just celebrated a player hallmark too and eso i keep seeing mentioned.

    I know plenty and the fact is wow IS getting older and likely something in the mext 3-5 years barring a miracle another mmo will surpass it's userbase.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That and how many are buying time woth gold how much revenue comes from things like name changes or mount purchases their are ALOT of things that tie into it.

    I am not saying wow is not still top dog for now merely it is ckearly on a decline and by it's own old age is slowly losing the lions share of the market. Again i give it 2-5 years
    who gives a shit about sub numbers they're making more money than ever get over yourself jfc.

    Like people like you drive me insane, sub #'s don't mean shit, their bottom line grows every single year from wow - that's what matters, it's a cash cow still, as always.

    Who cares if they're selling more mounts, I bet their income will increase again with bfa because of the billion race changes people will do.


    As for life support - if other mmo's that are "doing so well" as you put it, even made a fraction of wows profits they would be considered a huge success. WoW makes far more than any other mmo out there, and always will. MMO's aren't thriving businesses, most that come out die quickly.

    If wow is on life support - every single other MMO in this world is -dead-.
    Last edited by Vynestra; 2017-11-04 at 07:57 PM.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by NightGamer View Post
    Mike wearing a shirt with Overwatch logo should tell you everything, damn loot boxes are printing money.

    To be honest, as a RTS player, Warfronts sounds intriguing for me, but if I have to go inside with other 19 randoms who have no idea of RTS, will be a disaster. Mixed feelings.

    Fact is, the "artifact" is still here, is not the weapon is the necklance, so nothing really change from Legion.

    I am also trying to identify the selling points of this expansion, because I can't find any.
    People need to stop talking about Overwatch. It's never going to have the staying power of WoW. You think Overwatch is still going to have the same percentage of its userbase as wow does 13 years after launch? You're delusional, if they are planning like that then they are delusional. Overwatch will be a "dead game" within three years, wow will still be going strong.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    who gives a shit about sub numbers they're making more money than ever get over yourself jfc.

    Like people like you drive me insane, sub #'s don't mean shit, their bottom line grows every single year from wow - that's what matters, it's a cash cow still, as always.

    Who cares if they're selling more mounts, I bet their income will increase again with bfa because of the billion race changes people will do.


    As for life support - if other mmo's that are "doing so well" as you put it, even made a fraction of wows profits they would be considered a huge success. WoW makes far more than any other mmo out there, and always will. MMO's aren't thriving businesses, most that come out die quickly.

    If wow is on life support - every single other MMO in this world is -dead-.
    Actuallly at least in ffxiv case it IS considered a huge success to the point it basically funds SE now.

    And i am merely using the metric others have sub numbers ARE bs and the fact that the stores are making so much money of anything supports my original assertion that f2p or ideally b2p is wows best route now.

    And the other mmos were expected and planned to have smaller communities i say wow is on decline because it is and life support may very well happen sooner then later(as in under a decade and by life support i mean swapping to f2p with lower amounts of content by far)

    It just isn't the same game OR cash cow and blizzard is not the same company sadly. And it all shows
    Last edited by Sorrior; 2017-11-04 at 08:21 PM.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    Actuallly at least in ffxiv case it IS considered a huge success to the point it basically funds SE now.

    And i am merely using the metric others have sub numbers ARE bs and the fact that the stores are making so much money of anything supports my original assertion that f2p or ideally b2p is wows best route now.

    And the other mmos were expected and planned to have smaller communities i say wow is on decline because it is and life support may very well happen sooner then later(as in under a decade and by life support i mean swapping to f2p with lower amounts of content by far)

    It just isn't the same game OR cash cow and blizzard is not the same company sadly. And it all shows
    Once again, everything in red is just bullshit. There are ZERO signs showing it'll be on life support soon, before you said IT IS on life support, now it'll be ON life support in under a decade and IT'S SHOWING, but it's not. Stop bullshitting, its bullshitty bullshit. Theres no evidence to support your claims, just you making bullshit up.

    They're making more money than when they had 12 million subs - so wow is more successful now than ever. HOW IS IT ON A DECLINE? HOW IS IT ON LIFE SUPPORT? HOW IS IT GOING TO BE ON LIFE SUPPORT?

    you can't answer these without making up more bullshit, so stop while you're being called out and give up.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by kalaratic View Post
    and not 1 word about class changes, they really think their autistic outburst "class fantasy" was successful. we are FUCKED
    I'm really tired of comments similar like yours, and it makes me even more tired to react to them. But here we go..

    I personally like all the class changes. I think they are great and I've never had so many alts during any expansion.

    Why are you making a statement that class fantasy failed, as fact? It's just your personal opinion.

  19. #39
    Deleted
    Something seems off, it’s all very vague.

    There’s no focus, no selling points or anything. The off races could be interesting but that’s not a expansion seller for me.

  20. #40
    Titan Sorrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    Once again, everything in red is just bullshit. There are ZERO signs showing it'll be on life support soon, before you said IT IS on life support, now it'll be ON life support in under a decade and IT'S SHOWING, but it's not. Stop bullshitting, its bullshitty bullshit. Theres no evidence to support your claims, just you making bullshit up.

    They're making more money than when they had 12 million subs - so wow is more successful now than ever. HOW IS IT ON A DECLINE? HOW IS IT ON LIFE SUPPORT? HOW IS IT GOING TO BE ON LIFE SUPPORT?

    you can't answer these without making up more bullshit, so stop while you're being called out and give up.
    It is on a decline because goddamn sub numbers are going down and it is making more through microtransactions AGAIN i ORIGINALLY said it should go b2p/f2p and i have had to reiterate myself so much today no surprise i don't phrase stuff perfectly.

    Frankly i feel you are being intentionally obtuse and ignoring that the entire thing started by my saying blizz should just go f2p/b2p already that will do FAR more good for wow then staying as a sub based game.

    That is how sub numbers tie in..Which are not a good metric for how games are doing but a great many praise as such.


    Tldr if wow doesn't change life support will happen(oh and if i said is look at my other posts most have me saying within 2-5 years one instance of saying is is not universal) .

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Flimsy View Post
    Something seems off, it’s all very vague.

    There’s no focus, no selling points or anything. The off races could be interesting but that’s not a expansion seller for me.
    Honestly..If this is leading i to a b2p wow i can support it..or f2p..i think it would do wonders in that it would cause players to be more prone to return and spend money on vanity stuff

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