"We're not looking to add a bunch of abilities" - class design is DEAD

[Deleted]

Not really, 20 is nothing and is easy to keybind. I find more abilities more entertaining and rewarding.

Different opinions

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lol, having more abilities and having them be different allows you to adapt your playstyle to the situation, which may and will create a differentiation between bad players and good ones, we dont have that in legion with 5 buttons classes (:

there used to be like

god player







trash player



now its

god player



trash players

I don't really care about ego

[McFrotton]

what do you want to had, they have to literally remove talent to make places for new one now. There is a limit to how many spell/talent we can have imo and we reached it a long time ago!

[madokbro]

lol, having more abilities and having them be different allows you to adapt your playstyle to the situation, which may and will create a differentiation between bad players and good ones, we dont have that in legion with 5 buttons classes (:

there used to be like

god player







trash player



now its

god player



trash players

Awww, that's so cute, you no longer get to feel you are a special snowflake because you can handle more buttons slightly faster in a video game

Joking aside, if people truly wish to waste their dedication and time mastering keyboard keys, at least make the "skill" show itself with the clever use of encounter mechanics, not by how a person handles the hitting order of 15 buttons. Monkey see, monkey push is not fun.

[Cryptoriana]

I think Frost Mage is fine as is

[TJ]

Different opinions

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I don't really care about ego

It's not really ego, it's to separate good and bad players and actually give people something to aim towards. Who would want to play a game where everyone is basically the same skill because it's so simple? Some people maybe, but not me.

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Awww, that's so cute, you no longer get to feel you are special snowflake because you can handle more buttons slightly faster in a video game

Joking aside, if people truly wish to waste their dedication and time mastering keyboard keys, at least make the "skill" show itself with the clever use of encounter mechanics, not by how a person handles the hitting order of 15 buttons. Monkey see, monkey push is not fun.

Not sure what you mean by the second part, it doesn't matter what order you press buttons for your rotation?

[Aleksej89]

I mained hunters from vanilla to legion, i was in love with their insane toolkit and variety of abilities to deal with any situation both in outdoors and in raids.

As legion changes hit live servers i could not even look at my hunter main any more.

They removed every situational, flavor, niche and utility spell and pet skill from the hunter class.

[Marrilaife]

I think the rotations are pretty much on spot, at least for the classes I play.

Some of them are, depending which classes you play. For example I wouldn't feel my arcane mage needs a tremendous rotation change. My resto druid is fine too. But for example demon hunters, of both specs, maybe by the virtue of being the newest class, have major rotational flaws, havoc has too little going on there and vengeance is stuck in a situation soul cleave doesn't feel good to use, also without felblade my rotation feels so empty I have to spec into it just to feel I'm not spamming shear 24/7.

And there are some gameplay mechanics that get tons of hate, like MM hunter vulnerability or Outlaw Rogue roll the bones, is it really worth forcing people through it just in the name of "class fantasy"?

[Dmitro]

Awww, that's so cute, you no longer get to feel you are a special snowflake because you can handle more buttons slightly faster in a video game

Joking aside, if people truly wish to waste their dedication and time mastering keyboard keys, at least make the "skill" show itself with the clever use of encounter mechanics, not by how a person handles the hitting order of 15 buttons. Monkey see, monkey push is not fun.

1) what you've just sarcastically mentioned is called skill cap, we used to have that, you know.

2) totally agree, tho youre wrong on that too, not only we've seen reduced buttons, but we also suffered from killed mechanics.

warrior stance dance
dk runes
hunter stances
hunter range zone

+ dozens others REMOVED mechanics

And so on, they are not particularly buttons, but mattered a lot and made some classes way harder to play, for example warrior stance dancing wsa the best that class ever seen in 13 years of wow. now - gone, cause probably too hard for 12 y.o casuals like you I guess

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Different opinions

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I don't really care about ego

its not ego my man, its called SKILL CAP, you know, where your class actually allows you to shine if youre good and allows you to be really horrible if youre trash.

kinda not a thing anymore generally, to be bad in legion you have to be ACTUALLY handicapped

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I mained hunters from vanilla to legion, i was in love with their insane toolkit and variety of abilities to deal with any situation both in outdoors and in raids.

As legion changes hit live servers i could not even look at my hunter main any more.

They removed every situational, flavor, niche and utility spell and pet skill from the hunter class.

I guess youre just an elitist snowflake lul (c) madokbro

[Deleted]

Does it? I count at least 6 core abilities once their artifact is added in. And that's not bringing up their AoE abilities.

Honestly I just wish they'd get rid of one of the fires. Or make them both apply the same debuff so one's an AoE and one's a single target move.

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MM Hunter, Paladin in general needs a rework IMO but I'm just not a Holy Power fan, Monk IMO is due for one, Vengeance DH could use looking over.

demo locks could really go without demonic empowerment or at very least when you sue for the next X (say 15) seconds all your demons are empowerd, so youre current and any you summon.

[Dmitro]

I think Frost Mage is fine as is

its one of the most boring and easy and proc based rotations in the game, a disgrace in comparison with what you guys had in cataclysm for example

[Deleted]

The idea that there is no difference between skilled players and the rest anymore is ridiculous, go do an LFR and see how some players are able to do double or triple the dps of others.

I am quite happythey arent going to pour abilities back into classes just for the sake of having more butttons. In my opinion most of the classes are okay and those that arent dont need anything near as serious as a total rework. Things should only be added that make the spec more enjoyable to play or to make them better meet what Blizzard sees as their 'class fntasy'.

[Cryptoriana]

its one of the most boring and easy and proc based rotations in the game, a disgrace in comparison with what you guys had in cataclysm for example

Thats why i play it. Why would i want to play a class with 20 ability rotation. Not fun

[Dmitro]

Thats why i play it. Why would i want to play a class with 20 ability rotation. Not fun

20 abilities is harder to master and takes much longer, so you'll be interested in playing it more to "max it out" , unlike current

play spec - learn everything in 2-3 months - lvl toon . a disgrace.


plus its not only about amount of abilities, but also about mechanics, they should be challenging,
even 2 button spec can be fun if its hard to survive ( no cheat death + autobubble shit) + hard to gain resources and so on (:

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The idea that there is no difference between skilled players and the rest anymore is ridiculous, go do an LFR and see how some players are able to do double or triple the dps of others.

I am quite happythey arent going to pour abilities back into classes just for the sake of having more butttons. In my opinion most of the classes are okay and those that arent dont need anything near as serious as a total rework. Things should only be added that make the spec more enjoyable to play or to make them better meet what Blizzard sees as their 'class fntasy'.

1) theres difference, but the gap IS MUCH smaller than before, in wrath or even cata-mop.

because

1) tons of removed abilities
2) pruned mechanics
3) lots of save abilities (like this disgraceful auto bubble)

so you'll have what you have now, rotations are ez, saves are almost ultimate, aggro is ez to get and keep and so on.

THE GAME IS SO MISTAKE-FORGIVING NOWADAYS

[Gandrake]

you have almost 7000 post on this forum, so clearly you spend time on a wow forum...do you know how pathetic that makes you look?

I love how people assume MMO-Champion = World of Warcraft. Just because you're still playing a shit game that is only a shell of it's former self doesn't mean everyone else does.

Yes, I played the game quite a lot in Wrath of the Lich King and Cataclysm. My interest in the game began to decline in Mists of Welfare Legendaria and finally took it's toll in Crybabies of Draenor after the axing of 10 man heroic as a difficulty (despite it's popularity).

There is more to talk about on this site than a game that has been shit since 2013.

[Cryptoriana]

I love how people assume MMO-Champion = World of Warcraft. Just because you're still playing a shit game that is only a shell of it's former self doesn't mean everyone else does.

Yes, I played the game quite a lot in Wrath of the Lich King and Cataclysm. My interest in the game began to decline in Mists of Welfare Legendaria and finally took it's toll in Crybabies of Draenor after the axing of 10 man heroic as a difficulty (despite it's popularity).

There is more to talk about on this site than a game that has been shit since 2013.

I mean your entitled to your opinion, but dear lawd

[Deleted]

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1) theres difference, but the gap IS MUCH smaller than before, in wrath or even cata-mop.

because

1) tons of removed abilities
2) pruned mechanics
3) lots of save abilities (like this disgraceful auto bubble)

so you'll have what you have now, rotations are ez, saves are almost ultimate, aggro is ez to get and keep and so on.

THE GAME IS SO MISTAKE-FORGIVING NOWADAYS

Really? Do you have any proof of that? Preach did a video about randomisation recently in which he showed that LFR logs from Dragon Soul were far more equal than they are now, that would suggest there is more distinction between good and bad players no?

As Preach states in that video there is tonnes of ways good players can distinguish themselves, perhaps more now than ever because good players are able to maximise the amount of value they can get from good proc runs, they are able to bait RPPM and Concordance procs, they are more able to use CDs when they will be most effective not just when they are on cooldown.

I think the game could stand to have more interplay between class abilities, more interactions between current abilities and some classes could definitely do with a better flow to their skill usage in combat but adding more abilities, not really, if anything I think that is the cheapest, easiest, most boring and least engaging way of making the classes more fun to play and/or have higher skill caps.

This entire debate is always framed around wanna be big epeen players, the game is much bigger than that and thankfully Blizzard has spared a thought for how classes play accross all skill levels not just for a tiny few who desperately need to prove something to, well, I dont really know...

[Kathranis]

I wonder if people are just taking these quotes out of context. I mean that's obviously not an accurate quote in the OP and title, so, probably?

The question was about the size of rotations, and Blizzard says they want to keep them about where they are now.

It doesn't mean they won't be adding, changing, or reworking abilities and talents.

In fact, we already know that there are new talents, new abilities, and that raid buffs are coming back with every class getting one.

There will also of course be new passive and active abilities attached to Azerite weapons.


I'm not saying that we don't need reworks, obviously. Some specs definitely do.

All I'm saying is that this isn't the way to react to a developer comment about the size of rotations. Instead of complaining about stuff you're not even taking in proper context, maybe give some appropriate feedback that actually helps.

[huth]

THE GAME IS SO MISTAKE-FORGIVING NOWADAYS

On the low-end, sure. High-end, make one mistake, your group is dead.

[DisposableHero]

This should not surprise anyone. Blizzard gambled on legions class features (read here: Legendarys and Artifact Weapons) being well received enough to become evergreen. They were not nearly as well received as intended, and the developers were forced to discard them in the legion/BfA transition. This means they are forced to design a level 110 experience that functions with 50+ abilities per spec in play that has to mesh and work with a level 120 experience where all of those abilities are discarded. That is the equivalent effort to significantly reworking every spec in the game. It is no wonder they don't feel they will have time to add a pile of new abilities to the level up process. They will be too busy sorting out the post artifact post legendary world.

Class design for 8.0 is dead. Class design in 7.0 killed it. Specs that need reworks will hopefully get them in 8.0.5 or 8.1 as the burden of the post legendary transition becomes less of a concern.

[huth]

This should not surprise anyone. Blizzard gambled on legions class features (read here: Legendarys and Artifact Weapons) being well received enough to become evergreen.

Did you miss the Heart of Azeroth? It's the followup to both systems.