Intels Skylake-X and Coffee Lake CPUs Discussion

[Cilraaz]

Anyone here have an 8600k and Extreme4 ?

I actually just got the 8700k with an Asrock z370 extreme4. Currently running 4.8GHz on air at an offset of -30mV (roughly 1.28V). Running AIDA64, I'm pushing about 90C with an ambient temp of 21C. I can probably lower the voltage a bit more, but I'm running the stress test at this setting overnight tonight. It's been stable at these settings all day for normal use, including a few hours of WoW while watching BlizzCon.

[Fascinate]

90c with 1.28v? Thats way higher than it should be, even in a stress test. Id recheck your CPU mount, what cooler are you using?

[Cilraaz]

90c with 1.28v? Thats way higher than it should be, even in a stress test. Id recheck your CPU mount, what cooler are you using?

Yeah, It did seem way higher, but those were also peak temps. Most times that I checked it during the test, it was around 80C. I've got a Xigmatek Dark Knight II from a lifetime ago. Temps during normal operation seem fine. Idle, I'm at about a 5C delta (26C with 21C ambient). In WoW, I'm in the mid-to-high-40s. I did debate getting a new fan, since the fan that came with the Dark Knight is a 2k RPM 120mm fan that claims 89CFM. I can probably get a newer fan to save a few degrees.

[Azortharion]

Acquired myself a lemon chip, can't get 5.0 GHz stable even at 1.4v with a Kraken X62 on Performance Mode (280mm). Maximus X Hero. Oh well!

[MrPaladinGuy]

No but im familiar with their bios, whats up?

I had some questions but I figured them out, mostly about the ringbus.

I actually just got the 8700k with an Asrock z370 extreme4. Currently running 4.8GHz on air at an offset of -30mV (roughly 1.28V). Running AIDA64, I'm pushing about 90C with an ambient temp of 21C. I can probably lower the voltage a bit more, but I'm running the stress test at this setting overnight tonight. It's been stable at these settings all day for normal use, including a few hours of WoW while watching BlizzCon.

Since it's an 8700k and that's a very old mid-tower cooler, the temps seem normal from what I've seen on OCN.

What level is your loadline set to ?

With the same mobo, 8600k, NH-D15, 20mV offset, LL level at 2. I'm at 4.8 with a vcore of 1.280-1.312 depending on the P95 test and I can hit 86c when P95 hits the 3rd test which generates much more heat than the previous two.

90c with 1.28v? Thats way higher than it should be, even in a stress test. Id recheck your CPU mount, what cooler are you using?

That sounds normal for an 8700k, especially with a cooler that old and for those tests designed to generate heat.

Yeah, It did seem way higher, but those were also peak temps. Most times that I checked it during the test, it was around 80C. I've got a Xigmatek Dark Knight II from a lifetime ago. Temps during normal operation seem fine. Idle, I'm at about a 5C delta (26C with 21C ambient). In WoW, I'm in the mid-to-high-40s. I did debate getting a new fan, since the fan that came with the Dark Knight is a 2k RPM 120mm fan that claims 89CFM. I can probably get a newer fan to save a few degrees.

Run P95 and tell me the max temps a few seconds after the 3rd test starts, please. For an 8700k and ancient cooler that's actually not that bad at all.

[Gorthezar]

I've got a question for you guys I'm upgrading my MOBO/CPU very soon from a 4770k and I'm wondering is it worth waiting for 8700K to be in stock vs say 7700K for WoW + new release video games. I understand 8700K is a beast but as a semi computer noob I'm not sure how much the leap in performance is VS money spent.

[Evildeffy]

I've got a question for you guys I'm upgrading my MOBO/CPU very soon from a 4770k and I'm wondering is it worth waiting for 8700K to be in stock vs say 7700K for WoW + new release video games. I understand 8700K is a beast but as a semi computer noob I'm not sure how much the leap in performance is VS money spent.

Seeing as what you have already... It's not worth upgrading at all... 7700K especially not.

But what do you intend to do as your signature states you stream... do you CPU stream or GPU stream?
Do you want to have 2 PCs for streaming where you use 1 to play and the other to stream? Etc. etc.

Because you can OC the 4770K you have and get 95% of the performance you get from the 7700K/8700K in WoW.

[Gorthezar]

Seeing as what you have already... It's not worth upgrading at all... 7700K especially not.

But what do you intend to do as your signature states you stream... do you CPU stream or GPU stream?
Do you want to have 2 PCs for streaming where you use 1 to play and the other to stream? Etc. etc.

Because you can OC the 4770K you have and get 95% of the performance you get from the 7700K/8700K in WoW.

I'm single PC set up I CPU stream but it is really only for LULs nothing serious obviously. No real desire to do 2 PC ATM maybe in the future. On the topic of OC though I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to that never OC'd anything so If it wasn't that hard to do and I can save some cash I'm interested. I am running AIO Liquid cooling (H100i) so heat shouldn't be a issue I hope.

[Lillpapps]

Acquired myself a lemon chip, can't get 5.0 GHz stable even at 1.4v with a Kraken X62 on Performance Mode (280mm). Maximus X Hero. Oh well!

You are not alone. Mine max out at 4.8 GHz.

[Evildeffy]

I'm single PC set up I CPU stream but it is really only for LULs nothing serious obviously. No real desire to do 2 PC ATM maybe in the future. On the topic of OC though I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to that never OC'd anything so If it wasn't that hard to do and I can save some cash I'm interested. I am running AIO Liquid cooling (H100i) so heat shouldn't be a issue I hope.

Find some 4770K overclocking guides with Z87 or Z97, depending on what you have.
They are plentiful and it's not difficult, just takes time.

You can save craptons of money, the 4770K should be able to reach 4,6 - 4,7GHz in general.

Just don't go crazy with Voltages and you'll be fine.

- - - Updated - - -

You are not alone. Mine max out at 4.8 GHz.

I still have not got a motherboard ... I haven't the funds and am trying to find a job so I can actually have water, food and electricity etc.

Crap just keeps happening to me so I've been unable to even try out my 8700K

[Reman]

You are not alone. Mine max out at 4.8 GHz.

Damn boys I feel your pain, I can get mine stable at 5300mhz on high end air (delidded obviously, though not 24/7).

[Evildeffy]

Hate to ask you more because you are just a random stranger and you have already helped me a ton but I know I've got Z87 and Newegg is trustworthy but just without watching because don't waste your time on me you think this video would serve me well?

That is a good video, they go indepth on a lot of BIOS functions but honestly that is a bit too convoluted for you.
Most of the explanations and questions there you likely won't touch or use.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/...well_OC_Guide/

This is a little bit more condensed and bite-size ready for people.

I'd say go through that and have a look, there's honestly no need to waste money if you just game and don't really do content creation except for fun.

[Gorthezar]

That is a good video, they go indepth on a lot of BIOS functions but honestly that is a bit too convoluted for you.
Most of the explanations and questions there you likely won't touch or use.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/...well_OC_Guide/

This is a little bit more condensed and bite-size ready for people.

I'd say go through that and have a look, there's honestly no need to waste money if you just game and don't really do content creation except for fun.

Thanks a ton.

[Cilraaz]

What level is your loadline set to ?

I'm using LLC 4. I've never liked using much higher. I'd rather be slightly over-volting at idle (when it's down-clocking/volting anyway) than have LLC cause microspikes in voltage coming out of load.

With the same mobo, 8600k, NH-D15, 20mV offset, LL level at 2. I'm at 4.8 with a vcore of 1.280-1.312 depending on the P95 test and I can hit 86c when P95 hits the 3rd test which generates much more heat than the previous two.

Run P95 and tell me the max temps a few seconds after the 3rd test starts, please. For an 8700k and ancient cooler that's actually not that bad at all.

I'm seeing higher temps in P95 compared to AIDA64 in general. I don't know that I've tried it since I lowered the offset to a negative value, but I know I was hitting mid-to-high-90s at +30mV.

[MrPaladinGuy]

I'm using LLC 4. I've never liked using much higher. I'd rather be slightly over-volting at idle (when it's down-clocking/volting anyway) than have LLC cause microspikes in voltage coming out of load.



lowered the offset to a negative value

Can you tell me why ?

I'm actually new to this and never used LLC before.

I tried many changes but it wasn't P95 stable at 4.8 until I tried LL 2 with a 20mV offset. I started from 4 and never went above a 30mV offset.

Edit - So if I were to go with a lower LL level and increase the offset I could have a lower vcore when idle and still be fine at full load, isn't that sudden increase bad though ?

Edit 2 - I tried LL 1 and -30Mv Offset and it's P95 stable and behaves like my previous settings of LL 2 + 30mV, but it idles at 1.216/1.232 and when pushed extremely hard increases from 1.280/1.296/1.312 to 1.328 as the new max.

[Cilraaz]

Can you tell me why ?

I'm actually new to this and never used LLC before.

Naturally, when you put load on a CPU, there's something usually referred to as vDroop that occurs. This is a drop in vCore voltage, relative to the load placed on the CPU (higher load, more voltage droop). In the old days, you just had to push more vCore at idle to offset this. Years ago, LLC (Load-Line Calibration) came in. It acts as an assist to the vCore voltage. So the system detects load, the vCore drops slightly, and LLC kicks in within milliseconds. Depending on what level LLC you use, it assists more or less. Level 1 is the highest assist (and typically leads to an increase in voltage under load, which is not good). Level 5 is the least (other than disabled, obviously).

So if you think about a line graph. I'm pulling numbers out of my ass here, so don't use them for any math purposes. You have a vCore of, say, 1.28V. The instant load happens, it drops to 1.20V. LLC kicks in after a few milliseconds and brings it back up to 1.26V. The potential problem is that LLC is artificially increasing the voltage and can't instantaneously stop that boost when the load stops. So when the load suddenly stops, that 0.06V assist stays for a couple milliseconds. So for that time, the voltage pushed to the CPU is 1.34V. If the numbers are larger than the ones I used here, you could potentially have milliseconds of unsafe voltage, which over time could possibly cause damage. It's unlikely to outright kill a CPU, but could definitely shorten its lifespan.

I'm not sure if any of this makes sense. I'm 15 hours into a 24 hour livestream and have guildmates talking to me while I type, lol.

[MrPaladinGuy]

Naturally, when you put load on a CPU, there's something usually referred to as vDroop that occurs. This is a drop in vCore voltage, relative to the load placed on the CPU (higher load, more voltage droop). In the old days, you just had to push more vCore at idle to offset this. Years ago, LLC (Load-Line Calibration) came in. It acts as an assist to the vCore voltage. So the system detects load, the vCore drops slightly, and LLC kicks in within milliseconds. Depending on what level LLC you use, it assists more or less. Level 1 is the highest assist (and typically leads to an increase in voltage under load, which is not good). Level 5 is the least (other than disabled, obviously).

So if you think about a line graph. I'm pulling numbers out of my ass here, so don't use them for any math purposes. You have a vCore of, say, 1.28V. The instant load happens, it drops to 1.20V. LLC kicks in after a few milliseconds and brings it back up to 1.26V. The potential problem is that LLC is artificially increasing the voltage and can't instantaneously stop that boost when the load stops. So when the load suddenly stops, that 0.06V assist stays for a couple milliseconds. So for that time, the voltage pushed to the CPU is 1.34V. If the numbers are larger than the ones I used here, you could potentially have milliseconds of unsafe voltage, which over time could possibly cause damage. It's unlikely to outright kill a CPU, but could definitely shorten its lifespan.

I'm not sure if any of this makes sense. I'm 15 hours into a 24 hour livestream and have guildmates talking to me while I type, lol.

It makes perfect sense, I was also reading up on it from multiple sources before and after asking that. I have nothing to worry about since I'm nowhere near 1.4v and 1.312 max is still great for 4.8

What I was confused about before was what each setting meant as labeling them with "level x" is silly, but once I figured that out it made sense.

[Evildeffy]

Looks like the Intel CPU and AMD GPU on 1 package has been confirmed:

https://videocardz.com/press-release...adeon-graphics

Looks like Intel wants nVidia out of the laptop space entirely and AMD just to fuck with nVidia.

Though I feel this may undermine the whole Ryzen Mobile platform a little bit here.

[Thunderball]

Looks like the Intel CPU and AMD GPU on 1 package has been confirmed:

https://videocardz.com/press-release...adeon-graphics

Looks like Intel wants nVidia out of the laptop space entirely and AMD just to fuck with nVidia.

Though I feel this may undermine the whole Ryzen Mobile platform a little bit here.

Well Nvidia doesnt really have a share in low end laptop GPU space already. No way it's going to change anything for gaming laptops: Nvidia hardware is architecturally better suited for high performance/low power solutions.

[moremana]

Looks like the Intel CPU and AMD GPU on 1 package has been confirmed:

https://videocardz.com/press-release...adeon-graphics

Looks like Intel wants nVidia out of the laptop space entirely and AMD just to fuck with nVidia.

Though I feel this may undermine the whole Ryzen Mobile platform a little bit here.

Yeah, I mean wtf is amd going to counter it with. Ryzen is decent but it isnt Intel. And obviously its going to be soon, announced for 8th gen...

AMD may be shooting themselves in the toe.


EDIT:
Actually, this makes sense for Intel and AMD if you think about it.