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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    i dont know if genn was killed. more zapped. but anyway, i also dont think it was the entire army just as sylvannas only banshee wailed like 5 soldier.

    if we are going to call andiun rezing an entire army op. then we also have to call sylvannas banshee wailing an entire front rank op.
    Either way it spured the horde to not only break the Alliance attack but to get to the King and Genn!

    In battle sometimes thats all it takes to break a line especially in war back in the day.

    Had the Horde broken the line they could surrounded not only the alliance but they wouldve gotten behind all there siege engines. If you see that Blizz Diorama you can see the Horde was not outnumbered in this fight!

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Not in the way PC's have it, there is no example in lore of someone flat out ressing someone, much less a whole group of people - with magic, holy, nature or otherwise
    There is, during the quest "Return of the High Chief" in Icemist Village the taunka leader rezzes a bunch of Taunka to fight against the nerubians.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by wooootles View Post
    "Banshee Sylvannas" and Mass-rez Anduin looks like a very localized event. In the end, it's still the combined might of Stormwind/Ironforge/Gilneas roflstomping Undercity
    Correction: Combined might of the Alliance scratching the outer walls of the already ruined city ABOVE the Undercity. The only real tactical advantage taking that castle might have is cutting off access to the teleporter to Silvermoon, which is above ground.

    But to be honest, in a world with so many teleporters and portals, laying siege to a city is pretty stupid. There's no way to cut them off from supply. No way to secure your own siege lines and back ranks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frumpy Frumpy Frak View Post
    If Anduin hadn't cast that spell, the dozen or so soldiers she hit would have died and been replaced by the ranks behind them like nothing had happened.
    And very likely Anduin and Genn would have both been murdered by Sylvanus, who was right behind Saurfang, with a completely unhindered line of sight to them. While that might not have ended the war then and there, it would have set the Alliance on their heels. I'm still wondering why she didn't shoot him in the face while he was casting the mass-rez. Plot armor, most likely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    THIS! THIS IS SO PERFECT! my brother and I have been arguing back and forth and this didnt even come to mind. Why the hell would you charge out when you can just wait them out and use gurella tactics in close quarters.
    As I just said, it was likely an attempt to cut off the head of the snake. But mass-rez was cast and everyone decided to stop fighting while it was going on because of plot armor.

    But not only that, a lot of weird stuff is going on in that cinematic. Where are either side's air support? Are they still working on Pathfinder or something? Where is the rest of the horde while the battle at undercity is going on? Why didn't Sylvanus launch Blight barrels into Anduin's densely packed ranks? For that matter, where the hell did Anduin find so many troops to begin with so soon after Legion? As Frumpy said, why didn't someone as sly and clever as Sylvanus abuse the hell out of her superior tactical position?

    It was a nice trailer, but so much of it doesn't make any sense from a tactical or strategical point of view.

  4. #64
    Deleted
    You realise it's not real right? Why are you asking hypothetical questions about fiction. Just accept that's how it is and concentrate your mind on something more important.

  5. #65
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Correction: Combined might of the Alliance scratching the outer walls of the already ruined city ABOVE the Undercity. The only real tactical advantage taking that castle might have is cutting off access to the teleporter to Silvermoon, which is above ground.

    But to be honest, in a world with so many teleporters and portals, laying siege to a city is pretty stupid. There's no way to cut them off from supply. No way to secure your own siege lines and back ranks.



    And very likely Anduin and Genn would have both been murdered by Sylvanus, who was right behind Saurfang, with a completely unhindered line of sight to them. While that might not have ended the war then and there, it would have set the Alliance on their heels. I'm still wondering why she didn't shoot him in the face while he was casting the mass-rez. Plot armor, most likely.



    As I just said, it was likely an attempt to cut off the head of the snake. But mass-rez was cast and everyone decided to stop fighting while it was going on because of plot armor.

    But not only that, a lot of weird stuff is going on in that cinematic. Where are either side's air support? Are they still working on Pathfinder or something? Where is the rest of the horde while the battle at undercity is going on? Why didn't Sylvanus launch Blight barrels into Anduin's densely packed ranks? For that matter, where the hell did Anduin find so many troops to begin with so soon after Legion? As Frumpy said, why didn't someone as sly and clever as Sylvanus abuse the hell out of her superior tactical position?

    It was a nice trailer, but so much of it doesn't make any sense from a tactical or strategical point of view.
    Yeap that's the conclusion we reached here after duking it out (he's horde Iam ally) that things are not adding up. There's some plot detail definitely it's not a simple die horde die die alliance die

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Vital View Post
    You realise it's not real right? Why are you asking hypothetical questions about fiction. Just accept that's how it is and concentrate your mind on something more important.
    So why are you on a lore thread?

    This thread is about arguing over the tactics of a battle we just saw if you have no interest in that then you have no reason to be here do you?
    Last edited by yetgdhfgh; 2017-11-06 at 08:43 AM.

  7. #67
    What would happen if he didn't have the ability is irrelevant because he did have it. You might as well ask what would have happened if Sylvanas wasn't at the fight or what if the Alliance soldiers forgot to bring their weapons. What would have happened? It would have been tougher for the Alliance. What are you expecting?

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Goremonger View Post
    They wouldn't have waited for the alliance to be inside the gates to start firing, friendly fire wouldn't be an issue. Argents aren't that many in number and the ebon blade shouldn't have a say seeing as how they invade lights hope chapel. Plus it's their own territory why would anyone else be upset.
    Plague is like nuke or chemical attack in real life , Everyone gonna be pissed if someone use it . Even Garrosh didnt want horde to use plague.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by SealMemeSix View Post
    What would happen if he didn't have the ability is irrelevant because he did have it. You might as well ask what would have happened if Sylvanas wasn't at the fight or what if the Alliance soldiers forgot to bring their weapons. What would have happened? It would have been tougher for the Alliance. What are you expecting?
    Not irrelevant cause seeing that cutscene he was almost overun and by the looks of it Saurfang couldve killed him!

    That ability was able to rally his troops otherwise the whole attack couldve ended in shambles!

    I honestly cant wait to see how this battle ends cause it seems we have only saw half of what happens!

  10. #70
    The Lightbringer steelballfc's Avatar
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    are we talking about a battle that we have no more information about army's numbers, who is participating, the defence situation upon all city fronts and last but not least the supply lines and strategies of the battle.
    no we should not talk about this
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    I just love the idea of "I want to murder people in moderation".
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    the only "positive" in your case is that, unlike Blizzard's writers, you aren't paid for that.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Leyre View Post
    Let the Forsaken use the plague, the only one alive in that battlefield would have been Genn
    The particularly volatile strains of Plague literally melt the flesh of anything they touch, as demonstrated at Wrathgate and several other places, so even Genn would have died out there. It's just the "standard" Plague, the one turning people into undead, that the Worgen are immune to, isn't it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxos View Post
    When you play the game of MMOs, you win or you go f2p.

  12. #72
    If it would have been a mas rez, then the every soldiers would have spawned on top of Anduin.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by zemerax View Post
    In case anyone want's to know TheLostCodex tweeted he asked Alex, and "Alex said today it was a mass heal, since rezzing via light is certainly a rare, difficult feat"
    People dont care what the people who actually come up with this stuff say. Its the same thing when they asked about anduin being a paladin. They said bullshit and kept on with excuses.

  14. #74
    The Lightbringer steelballfc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryWithTheWeatherReport View Post
    I think the Alliance would had still won that battle because from 30 seconds in, you could see just how large the Alliance army is based on the view. There were like a dozen or so of those siege machines and like at least tens of thousands of troops.
    Sylv : how many

    Saurfang : ten thousand strong men at least

    Sylv : ten thousand

    Saurfang : it's an army for one thing
    to destroy the world of forsaken

    Slyv : let them come

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Actually resurrection magic doesn't exist in lore, if it did then why would Anduin not ress Varian, his mother, etc etc - he healed them. What's more he clearly only healed the front lines, there was a full army behind him
    it does
    varian was resurrected by his son

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Correction: Combined might of the Alliance scratching the outer walls of the already ruined city ABOVE the Undercity. The only real tactical advantage taking that castle might have is cutting off access to the teleporter to Silvermoon, which is above ground.

    But to be honest, in a world with so many teleporters and portals, laying siege to a city is pretty stupid. There's no way to cut them off from supply. No way to secure your own siege lines and back ranks.
    i would imagine every city has some kind of defence mechanic_something against open portal to your city randomly, i guess as the offical mage get the key to open the portal to these specific city's, other mage enemy can't
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    I just love the idea of "I want to murder people in moderation".
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    the only "positive" in your case is that, unlike Blizzard's writers, you aren't paid for that.

  15. #75
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatAgain666 View Post
    If Anduin didnt have Mass Rez?

    Watching that cinematic again it seems like had Anduin not mass rezzed his Army he couldve lost that battle.

    It seems after Sylvanas Banshee screamed wiped out the alliance front ranks and rallied the Horde the Horde was about to break the offensive and score a crushing defeat on the Alliance infact it looked like Genn was even killed.

    So how do you think the battle wouldve played out had he not had that OP spell?
    If the Horde was pushed back to Undercity it was pretty clear that the Alliance had wrecked its way across the rest of Lordaeron. The Horde likely had no real way out; they might have pushed back an assault but would have lost in the long run.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    If the Horde was pushed back to Undercity it was pretty clear that the Alliance had wrecked its way across the rest of Lordaeron. The Horde likely had no real way out; they might have pushed back an assault but would have lost in the long run.
    Thing was the horde broke the Alliance line as seen in the cinematic infact they broke out so far to be able to hit the king and hit greymane!

    Now i cant wait to see how this battle actually ends cause clearly Sylvanas and Saurfang doesnt die but blizz says the undercity is taken by the alliance.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by WhatAgain666 View Post
    Thing was the horde broke the Alliance line as seen in the cinematic infact they broke out so far to be able to hit the king and hit greymane!

    Now i cant wait to see how this battle actually ends cause clearly Sylvanas and Saurfang doesnt die but blizz says the undercity is taken by the alliance.
    Tactical retreat after being pushed into UC proper I guess. It'll be s cool scenario to see though.

  18. #78
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatAgain666 View Post
    Thing was the horde broke the Alliance line as seen in the cinematic infact they broke out so far to be able to hit the king and hit greymane!

    Now i cant wait to see how this battle actually ends cause clearly Sylvanas and Saurfang doesnt die but blizz says the undercity is taken by the alliance.
    So they had a spasming flail.

    That didn't mean they had any reach beyond that. If the Horde were truly pushed back to Lordaeron, then they were SOL. The alliance could continue pouring in troops from Stormwind, Gilneas, Khaz'Modan and wherever the high elves have been holed up. Silvermoon's status right now is indeterminate, and the only other horde reinforcements would have to come from a continent and ocean away.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by steelballfc View Post
    i would imagine every city has some kind of defence mechanic_something against open portal to your city randomly, i guess as the offical mage get the key to open the portal to these specific city's, other mage enemy can't
    That's my point. As long as the mages defending the city can open portals to other areas to re-supply and re-equip, there's no way a siege would work.

    I suppose it's possible that some kind of magical warfare could be going on behind the scenes. Sort of like modern day electronic warfare. Enemy mages scrambling the portals or putting up some kind of anti-teleport barrier.

    The way I see it, there's only two ways to successfull assault of a place like the Undercity:

    • Total and complete annihilation. Scorched earth. Nuclear option. Erase it from existence via overwhelming destruction.
    • Room by room, corridor by corridor warfare in a heavily fortified enemy position. The kind of nightmare urban combat that no military ever wants to engage in.

    Honestly, if the alliance was smart they should have figured out a way to breach the Undercity with dwarf or gnome engineering and drain part of Lordamere lake into it, completely flooding it out and making it useless as a defensive position. This would have forced the horde up into the ruins above ground where they actually WOULD be trapped like Genn said.

    This would mean that the horde would either have to sit in the ruins and defend a now utterly useless position, or retreat back through the teleporter to Silvermoon. Alliance could fortify or destroy the teleporter from their end, securing all the land south and west of the Plaguelands, leaving only Silvermoon as a horde base.

    Maybe that's what'll happen later on. Who knows? But that's what I'd do if I were the Alliance commander. It's not like any of your troops or people are going to want to live in the undercity anyway. And Trying to capture the Undercity is a death sentence for both sides, as it would degenerate into a war of attrition where the Alliance would have to pay 10 lives for every 1 horde they killed.
    Last edited by SirCowdog; 2017-11-06 at 10:44 AM.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    So they had a spasming flail.

    That didn't mean they had any reach beyond that. If the Horde were truly pushed back to Lordaeron, then they were SOL. The alliance could continue pouring in troops from Stormwind, Gilneas, Khaz'Modan and wherever the high elves have been holed up. Silvermoon's status right now is indeterminate, and the only other horde reinforcements would have to come from a continent and ocean away.
    The line was broken we saw the line broken as for SMC Blizz says the Alliance doesnt go that far (technical reasons maybe) but still it wil be interesting to see how this battle ends.

    ***SPOILERS***

    Dont matter we end up fighting over stromgarde anyway!

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