Flynn Next Target For Mueller

[Glnger]

I've got to wonder what keeps people like Skroe tied to the Republican party, we've been pointing out that the kind of politics Republicans have been pursuing leads to Trump demagogues for years, yet he remained a die-hard. Now realizing what his party has become he plays the role of the outsider that wants to bring sanity back to his party, back to its roots or whatever.

Skroe, you cannot turn off the crazy switch that Republicans flipped, you're party is going to keep going this direction because fighting against it in the environment Trump has created will get you primaried or in the case of the Alabama senator race, lose what has for years been a non-contested seat.

Skroe, honest question. What are you trying to salvage? trying to herd carnival barkers will prove more difficult than trying to herd cats

[Breccia]

What are the chances that Mueller already has Flynn or his son and they are cooperating like Papadopoulos did?

Not Skroe, but if i had to guess, I'd say "low". Flynn is a far more pivotal figure in Team Trump, by virtue of actually making it to the White House, and we know Trump remains bitter about being "forced" to fire him to this day. And even if he wasn't, Bannon will keep reminding him, and reminding him it was Javanka's idea (even though it was Kelly). Being both more important, and better liked, Flynn has a far better chance at a pardon, regardless of how suicidal a move that would be in the obstruction of justice part of the ongoing investigation. He could also be hoping one of the foreign governments he worked for would protect him.

True, Flynn has money problems on paper, so there's always that issue. Skroe has pointed that out multiple times. But I'm still saying Flynn seems more likely to fight the charges than to roll over on Trump, expecting his loyalty to be rewarded.

*snicker*

[Ripster42]

Not Skroe, but if i had to guess, I'd say "low". Flynn is a far more pivotal figure in Team Trump, by virtue of actually making it to the White House, and we know Trump remains bitter about being "forced" to fire him to this day. And even if he wasn't, Bannon will keep reminding him, and reminding him it was Javanka's idea (even though it was Kelly). Being both more important, and better liked, Flynn has a far better chance at a pardon, regardless of how suicidal a move that would be in the obstruction of justice part of the ongoing investigation. He could also be hoping one of the foreign governments he worked for would protect him.

True, Flynn has money problems on paper, so there's always that issue. Skroe has pointed that out multiple times. But I'm still saying Flynn seems more likely to fight the charges than to roll over on Trump, expecting his loyalty to be rewarded.

*snicker*

I disagree, he's already offered to testify if he gets immunity.

I do agree that flynn is important. Remember, the first inkling of obstruction into the russia investigation was firing sally yates after warning trump about flynn.

[Poopymonster]

I've got to wonder what keeps people like Skroe tied to the Republican party, we've been pointing out that the kind of politics Republicans have been pursuing leads to Trump demagogues for years, yet he remained a die-hard. Now realizing what his party has become he plays the role of the outsider that wants to bring sanity back to his party, back to its roots or whatever.

Skroe, you cannot turn off the crazy switch that Republicans flipped, you're party is going to keep going this direction because fighting against it in the environment Trump has created will get you primaried or in the case of the Alabama senator race, lose what has for years been a non-contested seat.

Skroe, honest question. What are you trying to salvage? trying to herd carnival barkers will prove more difficult than trying to herd cats

Skroe isn't a Republican, he's a conservative. Big difference.

[Glnger]

Not Skroe, but if i had to guess, I'd say "low". Flynn is a far more pivotal figure in Team Trump, by virtue of actually making it to the White House, and we know Trump remains bitter about being "forced" to fire him to this day. And even if he wasn't, Bannon will keep reminding him, and reminding him it was Javanka's idea (even though it was Kelly). Being both more important, and better liked, Flynn has a far better chance at a pardon, regardless of how suicidal a move that would be in the obstruction of justice part of the ongoing investigation. He could also be hoping one of the foreign governments he worked for would protect him.

True, Flynn has money problems on paper, so there's always that issue. Skroe has pointed that out multiple times. But I'm still saying Flynn seems more likely to fight the charges than to roll over on Trump, expecting his loyalty to be rewarded.

*snicker*

I disagree. US security will not let flynn flee to another country, that black eye wouldn't heal quickly.
You make an interesting point, but I suspect his military background will hold him more in line than the slimy civilians that surround Trump seemingly out of ignorance for US law in these realms.

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Skroe isn't a Republican, he's a conservative. Big difference.

Would you call it a tangible difference? being an "actual" conservative in the modern republican party just means you're retiring before 2018 or you're biting your tongue until after 2018.

Can you call the modern republican party "conservative"? certainly not in the sense of economics.
I'd call it more a reactionary party of differing factions and donor interests that overnight found itself at the reigns of our government.

[Poopymonster]

Would you call it a tangible difference? being an "actual" conservative in the modern republican party just means you're retiring before 2018 or you're biting your tongue until after 2018.

Can you call the modern republican party "conservative"? certainly not in the sense of economics.
I'd call it more a reactionary party of differing factions and donor interests that overnight found itself at the reigns of our government.

I can't speak for Skroe, but from his informative posts, which I may disagree with politically on issues, I've noticed this.

Yes there is a difference. Republicans and Democrats, the parties, have swapped sides a few times over the short life of this country. The Republican party, right now, is not a bastion of conservative ideology. Skroe believes in Conservative principles, not Republican ones. Being one does not mean you are the other.

Example? Trump ran as a Republican.

[Felya]

Example? Trump ran as a Republican.

Reagan... he started it... from GOP, we had 8 years of Reagan, 4 from his VP Bush sr, next republican to win was Bush jr. Trump is the first Republican president since the 70s, that did not have any relation to Reagan.

[PACOX]

Flynn is the key to Trump, and either Flynn is already talking or Mueller is saving him for something huge.

They can weakly explain away Manafort. George P is more of an appetizer. Trump appointed Flynn and then openly tried block Comey from investigating him...the incident that got Mueller hired in the first place.

[Rukh]

In any other administration, the National Security Advisor working for the Russians would be the scandal of the decade, but every goddamned person in this administration has their Russian relations.

[Breccia]

Why the White House Dreads a Flynn Indictment

In the indictments sweepstakes ahead of last week’s first moves by special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia probe, Paul Manafort was the odds-on favorite, but Michael Flynn, the former national-security adviser, was a good bet too.

Monday, and the rest of the week, came and went, bringing indictments for Manafort and his deputy Rick Gates and a guilty plea from George Papadopoulos, but nothing on Flynn. But NBC News reported over the weekend that federal investigators have enough evidence to charge Flynn, and that’s a prospect that should be particularly worrisome to the White House.

It’s worth noting that Flynn might already have been indicted. Papadopoulos’s guilty plea, for example, came on October 5 but wasn’t revealed until October 30; he was arrested months earlier. There’s speculation that Mueller’s grand jury may have already handed down new indictments that haven’t been unsealed yet.

Whether a Flynn indictment is sealed or still forthcoming, any charges would make the administration’s situation, already complex, even more headache-inducing. From any rational point of view, the Manafort indictment was bad news for President Trump: No one wants a former campaign chairman to be accused of moving around $75 million, and charged with money laundering and lying to the federal government. But the White House quickly adopted a positive spin, noting that the charges concerned behavior before Manafort joined the Trump campaign.

As I wrote last week, that reflects poorly on Trump as a judge of character and as an employer, but it also allowed the president to distance himself from the investigation and point out that none of the charges against Manafort indicated collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. (The Papadopoulos plea, though somewhat enigmatic, struck much closer to that matter.) As Trump made that point publicly, The Washington Post and Axios both reported that staffers inside the White House were relieved that Manafort had been charged, rather than Flynn.

The charges that Flynn seems most likely to face are similar to some that were brought against Manafort. Like Manafort, Flynn did not register under the Foreign Agent Registration Act at the time he did work for foreign governments, though like Manafort, he retroactively registered. Like Manafort, who is charged with making false statements, Flynn may have lied to the FBI. Flynn was pushed out of his job as national-security adviser on February 14, making him the shortest-tenured holder of that job in history, after the Post revealed that he had lied to Vice President Mike Pence and others about conversations he had with then-Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak. But the paper later reported that Flynn had also lied to the FBI about those conversations.

There are also other counts on which Flynn might be in trouble: His conversations with Kislyak could violate a law that prevents private citizens from conducting foreign policy, though it has never successfully been used to prosecute an American, and many analysts doubt it will be here. There is scrutiny of Flynn’s work for Turkey, for which he retroactively filed under FARA, including an alleged scheme to kick Fethullah Gulen, a cleric and enemy of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan out of the country. Members of Congress have focused on trips he made overseas, including one to celebrate the anniversary of the Kremlin propaganda network RT. As a former top general, Flynn was required to seek permission to be paid for those trips, and he also stands accused of not disclosing them when seeking renewed security clearance. Flynn was also involved in a bizarre Middle Eastern civil-nuclear scheme.

Whatever the superficial similarities between the Manafort and Flynn situations, though, the key difference is that a Flynn indictment would put the Mueller probe in the White House. Manafort was pushed out of the campaign in August and never worked in the Trump administration (though he is said to have remained in contact with Trump for months). Flynn, however, worked in the White House for almost a month. That means he could have discussed many of the potential areas for charges—from conversations with Kislyak to Gulen to who knows what—with any number of White House staffers on any level. Mueller could call them in for questioning. Even if none of those staffers did anything illegal, and at this point there’s no indication they did, the threat of testimony will create new stress and distraction in a White House already riven with both. They’ll also all need lawyers, and good expensive ones; the Papadopoulos plea-deal is a vivid illustration of the dangers of talking to federal agents. (Trump has offered to contribute $430,000 to legal fees, but the more staffers involved, the faster that will be used up.)

Moreover, a Flynn investigation would move things much closer to Trump himself. The president distanced himself from Manafort—former Press Secretary Sean Spicer claimed he played a “very limited role” in the campaign—but not from Flynn. Trump allowed Flynn to stay in the administration even after it became clear he had lied to Pence, and also after a conversation between then-Acting Attorney General Sally Yates and White House Counsel Don McGahn. Yates would not divulge the contents of that late-January conversation when she testified to Congress in May, but if Flynn did lie to the FBI, it appears likely that Yates told McGahn then.

Then, after Flynn’s departure, Trump asked then-FBI Director James Comey if he could let Flynn go, saying he was a good guy, according to sworn testimony Comey offered to Congress. “General Flynn at that point in time was in legal jeopardy,” Comey said in June. “There was an open FBI criminal investigation of his statements in connection with the Russian contacts, and the contacts themselves, and so that was my assessment at the time.” Then, several months later, Trump fired Comey, a decision he attributed to Comey’s investigation into Russian interference in the election.

That creates two separate occasions on which Trump could potentially have obstructed justice—first by meddling in the FBI’s probe into Flynn, then by firing Comey altogether. As the law professor Ryan Goodman writes at Just Security, it would be possible to make an obstruction-of-justice case against Trump in the absence of charges against Flynn, but it’s much more straightforward to make such a case if there’s actual evidence of a case that Trump was attempting to obstruct. Actual criminal charges against Flynn would provide that.

No wonder the Trump team was pleased that Manafort, rather than Flynn, took the first hit—but that relief could be short-lived. Even if one takes Trump’s staunch denials of collusion with Russia entirely at face value, that doesn’t mean Robert Mueller can’t go after him on obstruction of justice or something else entirely. A Flynn indictment is the shortest path to that outcome.

Bolded for emphasis.

[PACOX]

In any other administration, the National Security Advisor working for the Russians would be the scandal of the decade, but every goddamned person in this administration has their Russian relations.

Except Trump...for some reason he had no idea his entire administration and campaign were dirty.

[Breccia]

Flynn worried about son in Russia probe: CNN

Former White House national security adviser Michael Flynn is concerned about his son’s potential legal exposure in the ongoing investigation into Russia’s ties to the 2016 election, CNN reported Wednesday.

Flynn’s worries could factor into decisions about how to respond to special counsel Robert Mueller’s probe, multiple sources told CNN.

NBC reported on Sunday that Mueller has obtained enough evidence to charge Flynn and Michael Flynn Jr., his son. Flynn would be the first current or former Trump administration official to be charged in Mueller’s probe.

[PACOX]

Well well well, fully cooperate with Mueller or let Mueller go after you son, decisions decisions.

How does Flynn not have a pardon in his back pocket though? Or maybe Mueller is counting on it? 4D chess is too advanced for me.

[Breccia]

Well well well, fully cooperate with Mueller or let Mueller go after you son, decisions decisions.

We're about to find out if the GOP is the party of family values or not. For the record, I say he rolls the dice.

[Breccia]

Jesus.

Mueller probing alleged Flynn plan to deliver cleric to Turkey: WSJ

Special counsel Robert Mueller is investigating whether U.S. President Donald Trump’s first national security adviser, Michael Flynn, was involved in an alleged plan to seize a Muslim cleric and deliver him to Turkey in exchange for millions of dollars, the Wall Street Journal reported on Friday.

Under the plan, Flynn, who was fired by Trump after just 24 days in the job, and his son, Michael Flynn Jr, were to receive up to $15 million for forcibly removing Fethullah Gulen from his U.S. home and delivering him to the Turkish government, people familiar with the investigation told the Journal.

The alleged plan emerged during Mueller’s wider investigation of possible Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election and any collusion by the Trump campaign.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan accuses Gulen of instigating a failed coup in July 2016 and wants him extradited to Turkey to face trial. Gulen has denied any role in the coup.

A spokesman for Mueller’s team declined to comment on the report on Friday.

Flynn is a central figure in Mueller’s investigation because of conversations he had with then-Russian Ambassador Sergei Kislyak last year and because he waited until March to retroactively register with the Justice Department as a foreign agent for the work he did for a Turkish businessman.

The Journal reported that FBI agents asked at least four people about a December meeting in New York where Flynn and Turkish government representatives discussed removing Gulen, according to people with knowledge of the FBI’s inquiries.

The December meeting about Gulen was also reported Friday by NBC, which cited people familiar with the probe. The group also discussed how to set free a Turkish-Iranian gold trader, Reza Zarrab. Zarrab is in prison in the United States on federal charges that he helped Iran skirt U.S. sanctions, NBC said.

A Reuters report on Oct. 26 said one of Flynn’s business associates, former CIA Director James Woolsey, pitched a $10 million contract to two Turkish businessmen to help discredit Gulen while Woolsey was an adviser to Trump’s election campaign.

Woolsey was a member of Flynn’s firm, the Flynn Intel Group, according to a Justice Department filing by the firm and an archive of the company’s website.

I mean, that's some Bond-level villainy right there. Offering Flynn millions of dollars to throw his political opponent into reach? I kinda hope that's not true.

[Deleted]

Jesus.

Mueller probing alleged Flynn plan to deliver cleric to Turkey: WSJ



I mean, that's some Bond-level villainy right there. Offering Flynn millions of dollars to throw his political opponent into reach? I kinda hope that's not true.

Wasnt flynn a former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency. Oh dear America looks like an entire buisness and political class you have are corrupt self serving assholes for sale to the highest bidder. This problem is way beyond Trump.

[Breccia]

This problem is way beyond Trump.

Well, when there's evidence for other people, they should be prosecuted too. But I seriously doubt "offered to kidnap a priest for millions of dollars" is a common crime in...um..real life. Even in a corrupt system like you claim, this shit's an outlier.

[Deleted]

Well, when there's evidence for other people, they should be prosecuted too. But I seriously doubt "offered to kidnap a priest for millions of dollars" is a common crime in...um..real life. Even in a corrupt system like you claim, this shit's an outlier.

America is for sale to the highest bidder. Its as simple as that.

[Felya]

America is for sale to the highest bidder. Its as simple as that.

It was sold to Trump Organization last year... Remember, Hillary would have been sold to the highest bidder, while Trump is one of the ones bidding. The active US president and the active CEO of Trump Organization, are the same person.

[Breccia]

America is for sale to the highest bidder. Its as simple as that.

There's still some wiggle room. The current GOP, for example, is showing their true colors about Moore. It ranges from "if he's guilty, he should resign in disgrace" to "Jesus' parents did it".

Regardless, none of that takes away Flynn and his son looking to throw a political opponent back to the tyrant who wants to arrest and/or murder him, in exchange for blood money. Nothing about "oh the whole system is bad" excuses this blatantly criminal and evil behavior. And now, Mueller has that to work with.