The new raid buffs.

[Deleted]

So basically you want DKs to have a stupidly overpowered buff, so that even the biggest idiot in the game realizes he needs to bring one?

Well, ok I guess. But No, just No.

[Nemesquish]

I dont play a DK but a friend does, spotted the new raid buffs here in case people didnt see and noticed something very worrying:

http://www.wowhead.com/news=275398/c...le-for-azeroth

DK's provide leech, and no one gives a fuck about leech overall, (Its not useless, its just not a DPS increase and barely a survivability increase), so unless with the stat squish that 5% is actually healing a lot (Which it wont), you know what i mean.

Everyone knows the majority follows what the top guilds do, and the top guild wont put a DK in for "Leech" if they dont bring the DPS also.

It should be changed to match the others imo.

Unless they go with the approach of "continuous raid damage" they like to do in cases were its relevant <3.

Just starting a discussion cause why not, as a raid leader, even at a casual setting nowadays i consider this a "Who gives a fuck" buff.

Please tell your holy paladin that leech is bad...See what they say

[potis]

So basically you want DKs to have a stupidly overpowered buff, so that even the biggest idiot in the game realizes he needs to bring one?

Well, ok I guess. But No, just No.

No dude, i dont play a DK, i couldnt care less, its just a discussion cause i know how the majority of this retarded community works and how it affect the class if they dont bring a DPS buff like the rest.

Paladins maybe affected the same but this is for DKs.

This isnt about "How many DKs will Method bring" its "What will happen" if any of the top guilds dont bring one, in case Leech isnt really needed (We dont know the fights) and the healers can handle it.

Etc etc.

[Tojara]

Lol 5% leech is a lot better than people are giving credit for.

The whole point of raid buffs is to make sure that you take at least one of every class (which is fine in my opinion). It also has the side effect of potentially skewing comps in M+, instead of taking 2-3 of the same class.

As it stands right now consumption in high level M+ with players who know how to do damage is pretty retarded, in a lot of instances your healer can take their hands off the keyboard (or at least their healing buttons) for the next 15 seconds.

Will this fix class stacking in all situations? No. But you might not see things go to such extremes as it has in the eras where raid buffs are gone. Essentially you will want one of every class in your raid, unless Blizzard messes up balance by a margin where they should be actually buffing/nerfing classes.

[Raiz]

Lol, Antorus hasn't even came out and we're already "brainstorming" this sh.t out ? Man, you all need to take a chill pill.

This isnt about "How many DKs will Method bring" its "What will happen" if any of the top guilds dont bring one, in case Leech isnt really needed (We dont know the fights) and the healers can handle it.

You realize this situation has happened a thousand times already ? There will always be a scenario where a class will perform better than others. If there wasn't any, the game would be boring. Why do you think blizzard has been pretty leniant trying to find a common ground for every class ? Face it, they don't want all the classes the play the same.

Whatever. I'm done with that topic I guess. This gonna be my last post. Have fun.

[Deleted]

This isnt about "How many DKs will Method bring" its "What will happen" if any of the top guilds dont bring one, in case Leech isnt really needed (We dont know the fights) and the healers can handle it.
.

Either we are discussing the buff itself, where the consensus seems to be: "ok to very good, depending on the fight" or we are discussing what stupid things some people of the community will do.
In the latter case the only connection to the buff discussion is, that it would need to be so strong that anyone always has to bring a DK regardless of anything else, which is silly.

[potis]

Either we are discussing the buff itself, where the consensus seems to be: "ok to very good, depending on the fight" or we are discussing what stupid things some people of the community will do.
In the latter case the only connection to the buff discussion is, that it would need to be so strong that anyone always has to bring a DK regardless of anything else, which is silly.

We are discussing both.

We are discussing that in the end, it all comes down to DPS in the end apart from the top majority that needs everything, which usually ends up in situations where whatever doesnt provide DPS is discarded completely.

In this case is where my discussion is focused on, how stupid the community is, and what it causes.

The Rogue buff is so strong as example that without one you are literally 5% behind in DPS as a raid.

Without the DK buff you are 5% healing back? What? Who cares bout that, MA DEEPEE-ES!

[bewbew]

We gave icy talons to all a few xpac s ago. Perhaps something useful like that again?
Not a fan if this being brought back. As a filthy casual and someone who pugs raids nonstop to get better, I don't want to sit around waiting 20 min for a druid to que for MoW or kings or whatever. People get bored and leave.

Pugs go without Lust classes and without Drums all the time.

No one is gonna wait for a specific class' buff.

[Deleted]

The Rogue buff is so strong as example that without one you are literally 5% behind in DPS as a raid.

No you're not unless your raid only consists of physical damage dealers. One of the reasons why the haste buff is only 3%.

Also I don't think you can balance the buffs to be exactly the same under all circumstances. The point of these buffs is to have an incentive to bring a variety of classes.

Yes, if the decision is between bringing one rogue or one DK and everything else besides that buff was equal (it is not) it might happen that people perceive the rogues buff as stronger. (it might not always be true though)

However when we get to the point of bringing two rogues, two DKs or one of each, those buffs work exactly as intended: wanting people to bring both classes - again pretending that there are no other differences.


In reality of course most guilds won't even have that choice and for the top guilds there will always be a reason to bring 5 toons of class A because they are good at handling some mechanic, regardless of any raid buffs.


So all in all the DK buff is fine, I really don't want to see a "we can't raid without X" situation and none of these buffs qualify IMHO.

[blackblade]

Not every class buff is a DPS buff:

Priests give 10% stamina, paladins armor and hunters movement speed - all of that is situational.
And some buffs are only specific to some classes/specs, e.g. mages provide int, which does nothing for non-casters while the warriors' buff does nothing for casters, and warlocks and rogues only bolster magical and physical damage respectively.

So while leech is probably not a "must have" buff, it is not like every other class has one of those.
Overall I think the idea was to give classes a "nice to haven one around" abilities, not a "must bring a DK or bust" situation.



Isn't that how it is supposed to be?
Do you really want a situation where people bring a "shitty" DK and tell him "just stand there in the corner and don't die, because you're pretty useless overall, but we need your buff"?

I think it's also to offset FOTM class stacking a little bit. If rogues are ~5% higher than warrors, do you drop your warror for another rogue and lose ~5% str/agi?

[Ilir]

5% leech is really cool.

if the fights have a lot of constant damage, this will really provide a good amount of healing.

Also yeah, it maybe annoying for m+ but in raids you can easily cover all the buffs so you shouldn't worry about that.

[Kaver]

I dont play a DK but a friend does, spotted the new raid buffs here in case people didnt see and noticed something very worrying:

http://www.wowhead.com/news=275398/c...le-for-azeroth

DK's provide leech, and no one gives a fuck about leech overall, (Its not useless, its just not a DPS increase and barely a survivability increase), so unless with the stat squish that 5% is actually healing a lot (Which it wont), you know what i mean.

Everyone knows the majority follows what the top guilds do, and the top guild wont put a DK in for "Leech" if they dont bring the DPS also.

It should be changed to match the others imo.

Unless they go with the approach of "continuous raid damage" they like to do in cases were its relevant <3.

Just starting a discussion cause why not, as a raid leader, even at a casual setting nowadays i consider this a "Who gives a fuck" buff.

But I don't think the buffs are going to stack (2 DHs will probably not give 6% extra haste) so in a raid you might as well have one of each buff even though leech is not the strongest.

[hasslehoof]

Lol 5% leech is a lot better than people are giving credit for.

The whole point of raid buffs is to make sure that you take at least one of every class (which is fine in my opinion). It also has the side effect of potentially skewing comps in M+, instead of taking 2-3 of the same class.

As it stands right now consumption in high level M+ with players who know how to do damage is pretty retarded, in a lot of instances your healer can take their hands off the keyboard (or at least their healing buttons) for the next 15 seconds.

Will this fix class stacking in all situations? No. But you might not see things go to such extremes as it has in the eras where raid buffs are gone. Essentially you will want one of every class in your raid, unless Blizzard messes up balance by a margin where they should be actually buffing/nerfing classes.

This. Best example on live to compare this to is Inspiring Presence on a fight like Avatar, esp before it was nerfed. Easily does between 90-100m Healing over the fight even after all the nerfs the boss got, which is a lot.

[Cosmic Janitor]

in the warrior kit.

Warrior:
Battle Shout Increases the Strength or Agility of all raid and party members within 100 yards by 5% for 1 hour.

every class will have unique buff (i think missed shaman buff is crit, or maaaaaybe multistrike)

there was a reason why after the initial design of raid buffs blizzard added overlap. Kinda sad that it seems that the new guys really need to make all the mistakes of their forbearers again.

[Super Kami Dende]

5% of my current DPS is like 60-90k HPS. That's a fair bit of passive healing.

Even with a Stat Squish, 5% is not a negligible amount.

[Zalavaaris]

I wouldn't count on these buffs stacking. 2 DHs in a raid won't be a 6% haste buff (I'm fairly confident at least). These buffs sound like a nice fun flavor bonus for the entire raid. Bringing a DK with this one possibly useless buff won't stop people from bringing them. Unless these buffs do stack and you can get 75% more haste from bringing 25 DHs there should be nothing to worry about lol

[Nemesquish]

Theres no chance these will stack, Its just going back to old school buffs, these have been in the game before and will work the same way they did years ago.

[Deleted]

We are discussing both.

We are discussing that in the end, it all comes down to DPS in the end apart from the top majority that needs everything, which usually ends up in situations where whatever doesnt provide DPS is discarded completely.

In this case is where my discussion is focused on, how stupid the community is, and what it causes.

The Rogue buff is so strong as example that without one you are literally 5% behind in DPS as a raid.

Without the DK buff you are 5% healing back? What? Who cares bout that, MA DEEPEE-ES!

What are you talking about? More healing means you need less healers. In any mythic raid it could mean constant 1.5m hps. Sure, most of it will be overhealing. But picking 1 less healer and the raid heal up slowly via leech is a huge thing.

You should need any buff in highend raiding. And for difficult m+ this buff is great.

- - - Updated - - -

there was a reason why after the initial design of raid buffs blizzard added overlap. Kinda sad that it seems that the new guys really need to make all the mistakes of their forbearers again.

Well it ended up with half of the classes playing no role in highend raiding.

Having one of every class in a mythic raid should be no problem.

- - - Updated - - -

I wouldn't count on these buffs stacking. 2 DHs in a raid won't be a 6% haste buff (I'm fairly confident at least). These buffs sound like a nice fun flavor bonus for the entire raid. Bringing a DK with this one possibly useless buff won't stop people from bringing them. Unless these buffs do stack and you can get 75% more haste from bringing 25 DHs there should be nothing to worry about lol

They wont stack for sure lol. The idea is to counter class stacking, not enforce it.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Well it ended up with half of the classes playing no role in highend raiding.

Having one of every class in a mythic raid should be no problem.

That is nice if you play on a high-pop server (and sometimes not even there) with a guild that tries to be top 100, where you can choose your roster. For average guilds on low pop realms that do mythic but don't aim to be top 100 you take whatever you can get and the people in your guild want to play at the moment. Punishing those that already suffer from the rigid 20 player, no cross realm wankery by potentially missing out on another couple percentage of performance through missing class buffs is just bad design.

That blizzard can only desin encounters with hard fails these days as the difficult part of their raid difficulty, throwing random shit at you like there is no tomorrow and blatantly favor some class abilities because they can negate them completly (rogues) is just up to their terrible design as way. The way the intend to fix that is cure-by-symptom, which is not going to work, because you can still stack these classes beyond what is reasonable.

[Racthoh]

the leech will at least be relevant to world first guilds