I'm unable to shake the idea that it'd be great to have spec balancing in Classic

[Perkunas]

sry but legion has nothing common with classic greatness. so stfu. people wanted experience classic gameplay not classic worst issue.

That was classic you dingus. The classes had niches, pures did more dps, some specs were specifically for PVP. I'm sorry you don't like Vanilla but we don't want people to force some bastardized version of a game that never existed on Vanilla realms. This is for the fans of Vanilla and the people who want to see what the game was like back then. This isn't "Create-a-WoW". So take your list and go start a petition for "Pristine Realms" and leave this alone if you can't tolerate what it is.

[Adamas102]

I really hope they keep all of those shitty parts of the game intact just to teach people a hard little lesson about the illusion that nostalgia can be. It'll be amusing watching most proponents for this vanilla bastardization realize that much of the charm and experience of playing didn't come from the technical aspects and balancing. The vanilla WoW experience can NEVER be duplicated because the novelty is gone and the players have all evolved. Clamoring for a carbon copy just for the sake of "purity" is utterly retarded.

But whatever! People got what they asked for even if most are finally realizing that they never really wanted it in the first place.

[Perkunas]

I really hope they keep all of those shitty parts of the game intact just to teach people a hard little lesson about the illusion that nostalgia can be. It'll be amusing watching most proponents for this vanilla bastardization realize that much of the charm and experience of playing didn't come from the technical aspects and balancing. The vanilla WoW experience can NEVER be duplicated because the novelty is gone and the players have all evolved. Clamoring for a carbon copy just for the sake of "purity" is utterly retarded.

But whatever! People got what they asked for even if most are finally realizing that they never really wanted it in the first place.

Bitter as fuck, bro. People have been playing Vanilla for like 10 years. Those folks know what to expect and what they are getting into. The issue again is that there are people who don't like Vanilla but are tired of Legion and want something to do. These people will bitch, piss, and moan because they want QoL features that do not belong in an authentic experience. They need to find something else to do.

[therealbowser]

If Blizzard does balance patches for classic, it won't be classic.

I think the state of classic on the last couple patches were quite decent. Perfect? No, not even hardly, but decent enough to get by (with some exceptions, protection paladins were still pretty bad).

- - - Updated - - -

I really hope they keep all of those shitty parts of the game intact just to teach people a hard little lesson about the illusion that nostalgia can be.

I'm against this kind of attitude. "Make the game intentionally bad to teach them a lesson." The point of classic servers is to give players something to enjoy. They should give the best experience they can provide.

I simply believe the best experience involves the original class balance, not the most infuriating game possible.

For instance I have no issue with Blizzard putting WoD models into Classic servers as an option (as long as they can be completely toggled off), and I'd love if mounts and appearances you obtain in classic could be used on live (but not vice versa), but changing how the game actually plays -- making content easier, 'balancing' classes, et cetera -- are things I am not okay with.

Lastly, I'll add, I not only support but expect Blizzard to fix any game breaking bugs from back then. Trust me, no one's experience would be ruined if the game crashed less.

[Adamas102]

Bitter as fuck, bro. People have been playing Vanilla for like 10 years. Those folks know what to expect and what they are getting into. The issue again is that there are people who don't like Vanilla but are tired of Legion and want something to do. These people will bitch, piss, and moan because they want QoL features that do not belong in an authentic experience. They need to find something else to do.

What do I have to be bitter about? I enjoyed the true experience that was vanilla WoW and now I have plenty of other things to enjoy. I'm sure you enjoy being stuck in the past, but I certainly don't envy it, bro. Again, it's not an "authentic experience", it's just a different experience playing a now inferior game.

[Deleted]

if they just remove the debuff limit and make the content harder to compensate we'd have a massive amount of things be viable that are currently not

[Constraint]

In my opinion, it should not be balanced. I think it's a necessary evil, personally. When you have niches for everyone, each class feels more of a part of a whole. When everyone's balanced the same, it sorta feels like you're just there to make up the numbers.

Of course, it goes wayyy deeper than that, but that's been discussed in depth elsewhere.

[Perkunas]

What do I have to be bitter about? I enjoyed the true experience that was vanilla WoW and now I have plenty of other things to enjoy. I'm sure you enjoy being stuck in the past, but I certainly don't envy it, bro. Again, it's not an "authentic experience", it's just a different experience playing a now inferior game.

There are things called opinions and that one version is better than the other is completely subjective. Legion isn't a bad game but it lacks the soul of Vanilla. Warcraft is far less an RPG now than it was back then and you might like it more but I personally prefer the old style MMO's as I came from EQ and had no qualms about things taking a very long time or having a niche role.

[Adamas102]

I'm against this kind of attitude. "Make the game intentionally bad to teach them a lesson." The point of classic servers is to give players something to enjoy. They should give the best experience they can provide.

I simply believe the best experience involves the original class balance, not the most infuriating game possible.

The point was that the original class balance IS bad, and what you're suggesting is that they stick to that.

I'm not trying to be an asshole about it. My first lvl60 was a paladin. I definitely enjoyed playing that character back then (and it continues to be my main) but a lot of that early enjoyment came from the fact that I had no idea what class/spec/talent balance entailed.

[Kongnic11]

People need to stop this idea that you cant play certain specs. Perception over reality, a friend of mine, who is a huge vanilla private server player told me once, that on private servers there are both balance druids, elemental shaman and ret palas in raids. They do not do REALLY well, but they can still be used.

[kamuimac]

I really hope they keep all of those shitty parts of the game intact just to teach people a hard little lesson about the illusion that nostalgia can be. It'll be amusing watching most proponents for this vanilla bastardization realize that much of the charm and experience of playing didn't come from the technical aspects and balancing. The vanilla WoW experience can NEVER be duplicated because the novelty is gone and the players have all evolved. Clamoring for a carbon copy just for the sake of "purity" is utterly retarded.

But whatever! People got what they asked for even if most are finally realizing that they never really wanted it in the first place.

guess what "you think you do but you dont" was true after all

its hillarius to see all those people bashing Ion now whining like little baabies "weeee weeee change the game we dont really want vanilla only ...straciatella ":P

[Mushkins]

This is for Classic fans really, just want your opinion.

I know this is sacrilege, but I think it would be really, really cool if they balanced ret and balanced other specs to be viable without changing anything else. Just tweaked some numbers, have abilities do a bit more damage.

This would breathe new life into Classic WoW since everybody wouldn't just be running the popular specs. We would approach raid bosses with new compositions, like Shadow Priests and Retadins, and experience them differently than we ever did before. Same content, fresh experience. And this wouldn't encroach on the core of why Vanilla is so appealing: The immersion, the effort it takes to accomplish tasks (and are therefore more rewarding), the social aspect that requires interacting with people on your server to overcome challenges. All it would do is open up new possibilities that we never got to experience.

At the very least, we could have "Classic remixed" alongside "Classic"

What do you think?

Except for enhancement shamans(cause they was OP as f...) classes were perfectly balanced.
Yes, hybrid classes did less damage than straight dd classes, but it was balanced out by their ability to heal themselves and others. In the following expansions when Blizzard started to balance damage, they were forced to add selfheals to non-hybrids to balance it out, and so on and so forth.

[Deleted]

This is for Classic fans really, just want your opinion.

I know this is sacrilege, but I think it would be really, really cool if they balanced ret and balanced other specs to be viable without changing anything else. Just tweaked some numbers, have abilities do a bit more damage.

This would breathe new life into Classic WoW since everybody wouldn't just be running the popular specs. We would approach raid bosses with new compositions, like Shadow Priests and Retadins, and experience them differently than we ever did before. Same content, fresh experience. And this wouldn't encroach on the core of why Vanilla is so appealing: The immersion, the effort it takes to accomplish tasks (and are therefore more rewarding), the social aspect that requires interacting with people on your server to overcome challenges. All it would do is open up new possibilities that we never got to experience.

At the very least, we could have "Classic remixed" alongside "Classic"

What do you think?

I personally hope they change nothing. I like the fact that it will be EXACTLY the same as Vanilla was, I love the thought of being forced to spec Frost on my Mage in MC due to half of my fire spells missing It's going to really bring that nostalgia feel to the game! Also please god don't touch the XP Blizzard, the grind is the main thing I'm looking forward to!

[Adamas102]

There are things called opinions and that one version is better than the other is completely subjective. Legion isn't a bad game but it lacks the soul of Vanilla. Warcraft is far less an RPG now than it was back then and you might like it more but I personally prefer the old style MMO's as I came from EQ and had no qualms about things taking a very long time or having a niche role.

I enjoyed playing vanilla WoW back in the day more than I enjoy playing Legion currently. However, vanilla WoW is a technically inferior game, and that is not an opinion. I'm not talking about the length of time it takes to level up, that's certainly a matter of opinion. But things like class/spec balance (the reason for the OP) is a part of that inferiority. Having specs that were essentially unviable for anything but the most casual of leveling play is just BAD DESIGN. Maybe that's just not important to you, and that's fine, but ignoring it (or worse, pretending like it was one of the things that made the game fun ) is silly.

[Perkunas]

guess what "you think you do but you dont" was true after all

its hillarius to see all those people bashing Ion now whining like little baabies "weeee weeee change the game we dont really want vanilla only ...straciatella ":P

Not true at all. Those of us who played on the private realms know exactly what we're getting into. There's just an influx of interest from people who don't really want Vanilla but definitely don't want to play Legion now and it's getting annoying.

[Leih]

No, it's great. I've played a lot of Project1999 and I did play Vanilla WoW on servers, and the grittiness and immersion of the Classic games are so good. It's absolutely great.

But there are so many possibilities with such a fun game like Vanilla WoW. I just, I can't shake the idea that there's so much more you can do with the canvas that is Vanilla WoW.

Yeah that's totally true. Imagine what they could do with it!

They could like... add larger talent trees, some additional tiers. They could maybe add some new races, I'm thinking two. And bring paladins to horde and shamans to alliance. Maybe some new zones and stuff and some new levels. Imagine if we could go to 70? That'd be cool.

Why stop there.... Just imagine, with the raw canvas that is Vanilla WoW if they keep developing it one day we could be levelling to 110 and wielding an Ashbringer like we always wanted.

...Wait a second!

[Deleted]

Oh look, they barely announced classic server, and people are already wanting a change. Truly shocking. My my.... who would have thought...

[Makabreska]

Man, whats with all those "improve WoW classic" threads? You wanted vanilla? You are getting vanilla, with all it's imbalances and problems.

[Perkunas]

I enjoyed playing vanilla WoW back in the day more than I enjoy playing Legion currently. However, vanilla WoW is a technically inferior game, and that is not an opinion. I'm not talking about the length of time it takes to level up, that's certainly a matter of opinion. But things like class/spec balance (the reason for the OP) is a part of that inferiority. Having specs that were essentially unviable for anything but the most casual of leveling play is just BAD DESIGN. Maybe that's just not important to you, and that's fine, but ignoring it (or worse, pretending like it was one of the things that made the game fun ) is silly.

These are called niches. Certain specs were designed for PVP that's the way it was and frankly I preferred it that way. Homogenization was one of the worst things to ever happen to this game. Gutting niche roles almost entirely by the end of Wrath. The focus on end game and forgetting about the journey. Removing core RPG elements. You might like the modern game, but frankly there's a reason why even on the "free servers" Vanilla's popularity dwarfs all the other versions.

[Shiny212]

I think it would do great harm to the game experience if they made changes to class mechanics. Gotta remember shadow, retri, even balance were usable for lvling purposes, I thought shadow and retri specifically were pretty fun. Just because it wasn't extremely great for raids doesn't mean it cant be played at all. See vanilla was about so much more than the final stretch of endgame raiding.