[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Vankrys]

Countries have contingency plans for worst case scenarios?

How truly scandalous.

Are you seriously freaking out over very routine and standard contingency planning that every developed nations does for a variety of situations?

Except the UK, apparently. They had no plans, no contengency, nothing at all for brexit. I swear on the night of june 23rd last year, both leavers and remainers were like "Oh Shit!" seeing the result of the referendum.

It's actually hilarious that Germany, the main driving force for EU is more prepared for an after EU than UK is. Ah, the german efficiency.

[dribbles]

Countries have contingency plans for worst case scenarios?

How truly scandalous.

Are you seriously freaking out over very routine and standard contingency planning that every developed nations does for a variety of situations?

Are you seriously suggesting that America has drawn up military plans for the collapse of the United States? The United Kingdom for the collapse of Britain? Australia for the collapse of Australasia?

Isn't it worrying that the head honchos of the EU spend more time and effort on its collapse than its success? No wonder survey after survey shows europeans becoming more miserable as Britons become more and more content since the Brexit vote.

Obligatory link I suppose... The UK's life satisfaction ratings have improved since the Brexit vote, official stats show

[Edge-]

Are you seriously suggesting that America has drawn up military plans for the collapse of the United States? The United Kingdom for the collapse of Britain? Australia for the collapse of Australasia?

Yes.

The US has all kinds of contingency plans for various levels of collapse - complete nuclear destruction, portions of the US being attacked, etc.

Developed nations long ago learned that it's infinitely more cost effective and prudent to plan for disaster scenarios so you're not caught with your pants down.

Isn't it worrying that the head honchos of the EU spend more time and effort on its collapse than its success? No wonder survey after survey shows europeans becoming more miserable as Britons become more and more content since the Brexit vote.

Citation required for "more time and effort on its collapse than success".

Obligatory link I suppose... The UK's life satisfaction ratings have improved since the Brexit vote, official stats show

"Upward trend continues to trend upwards"

If anything, it shows that Brexit didn't actually change anything. Not terribly surprising, not much has actually happened since the Conservative British government is still slow-walking this process since they were caught with their pants down and no contingency plans in case Brexit actually succeeded. Ya dig?

[Noradin]

From the article: "Germany, the EU’s economic powerhouse, has a long tradition of in-depth strategic planning for every eventuality in the continent."

Trust me. I was a military officer. We had contingency plans on how to invade the UK and take over their government too. We had plans for all sorts of scenarios, highly academic and theoretic. We even had some for civil wars and rebellions. It was all very interesting stuff and I guess it keeps the officers and advisors busy with something.

Yes, those are created for training purposes mostly, but there is no reason to not keep them in storage somewhere afterwards.

[Vankrys]

Are you seriously suggesting that America has drawn up military plans for the collapse of the United States? The United Kingdom for the collapse of Britain? Australia for the collapse of Australasia?

Isn't it worrying that the head honchos of the EU spend more time and effort on its collapse than its success? No wonder survey after survey shows europeans becoming more miserable as Britons become more and more content since the Brexit vote.

Obligatory link I suppose... The UK's life satisfaction ratings have improved since the Brexit vote, official stats show

i am persuaded the US government has contengency plan for states rebellion, secession claims or otherwise civil unrest. They have a designated survivor and continuity of government plans. I'm sure in some basement office of the pentagon, you can find plans for a collapse of the union, next to a russian invasion plans.

[dribbles]

Yes.

The US has all kinds of contingency plans for various levels of collapse - complete nuclear destruction, portions of the US being attacked, etc.

Developed nations long ago learned that it's infinitely more cost effective and prudent to plan for disaster scenarios so you're not caught with your pants down

i am persuaded the US government has contengency plan for states rebellion, secession claims or otherwise civil unrest. They have a designated survivor and continuity of government plans. I'm sure in some basement office of the pentagon, you can find plans for a collapse of the union, next to a russian invasion plans.

There is a subtle difference though, if the US does have such plans, unlike the EU they are not plastered and publicly leaked all over the internet on an almost weekly basis about their impending demise. Doesn't do much for the citizens moral. Nobody seriously speculates about North Carolina leaving the USA whereas there is constant chatter about the next to exit the EU, word has it one country is already on its way out...

So glad my world is the optimistic Brexit world rather than that dank depressing, collapsing in their own words, EU world.

[Vankrys]

There is a subtle difference though, if the US does have such plans, unlike the EU they are not plastered and publicly leaked all over the internet on an almost weekly basis about their impending demise. Doesn't do much for the citizens moral. Nobody seriously speculates about North Carolina leaving the USA whereas there is constant chatter about the next to exit the EU, word has it one country is already on its way out...

So glad my world is the optimistic Brexit world rather than that dank depressing, collapsing in their own words, EU world.

the definition of a "leak" is that it was not supposed to be public in the first place.

[Edge-]

There is a subtle difference though, if the US does have such plans, unlike the EU they are not plastered and publicly leaked all over the internet on an almost weekly basis about their impending demise.

Damn, I see we've shifted goalposts to the stadium in the next city over.

Actually, while I'm not sure about the full details, a lot of broad strokes for many of these plans are very much in the public sphere - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...rio_Number_One

Doesn't do much for the citizens moral.

...what? Are you saying that knowing your government has contingency plans would negatively impact the citizenry? I'm glad that they exist, I'd be deeply concerned if my government wasn't planning for contingencies.

Nobody seriously speculates about North Carolina leaving the USA whereas there is constant chatter about the next to exit the EU, word has it one country is already on its way out...

It's almost like the EU and the US states are two similar, but very different things. US states aren't sovereign countries, EU member nations are.

So glad my world is the optimistic Brexit world rather than that dank depressing, collapsing in their own words, EU world.

Yes, fiction is often more comforting than reality.

[Vankrys]

So glad my world is the optimistic Brexit world rather than that dank depressing, collapsing in their own words, EU world.

your optimistic brexit has one month to come up with the money or kiss the december trade talks bye bye

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ke-concessions

[Mayhem]

"Upward trend continues to trend upwards"

If anything, it shows that Brexit didn't actually change anything. Not terribly surprising, not much has actually happened since the Conservative British government is still slow-walking this process since they were caught with their pants down and no contingency plans in case Brexit actually succeeded. Ya dig?

I especially like how he's talking about the british when it's only the english that are on an upwards trend while scotland, northern ireland and wales aren't.

Also from his link this little gem:
"Given that the public's confidence in Brexit negotiations is at an all-time low, it would seem that the macro-political situation in the UK is not a major influence on people's personal happiness."

Strong and stable.

I do have to say, i find it awesome that @dribbles is constantly producing links that counter his arguments, saves the sane people so much time.

[Nigel Tufnel]

An amusing quote from Germany's finance minister, Peter Altmaier, regarding the stand-off:

Altmaier said: “My answer was, listen, when a couple marries for 40 years, [they have] three children and they have a house, a home, two cars and a boat and decide to get divorced, it is fairly difficult for this couple to have a win-win situation for both sides. It is something that is perhaps a win-win situation for the lawyers.”

source

Two cars and a boat?

Really?

Because, clearly, that's what most people can relate to. How many of us own a fucking boat?

What analogy would he come up with if it were the EU negotiating a Greek exit?

Two spas and a goat?

[Nigel Tufnel]

^ Don't see a problem with the analogy at all - if the couple didn't have valuables to split there wouldn't be any analogy.

Yes, but most couples don't own a boat.

He should have said kettle or vacuum cleaner or bloody cd collection.

E.g., I'm trying not to make reference to out of touch Euro elites, but struggling.

Fucking boat... ffs. Food banks will struggle too cope this winter because of the universal credit changes.

food banks

He can take his stupid analogies and go fuck himself.

[dribbles]

Damn, I see we've shifted goalposts to the stadium in the next city over.

Actually, while I'm not sure about the full details, a lot of broad strokes for many of these plans are very much in the public sphere - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...rio_Number_One



...what? Are you saying that knowing your government has contingency plans would negatively impact the citizenry? I'm glad that they exist, I'd be deeply concerned if my government wasn't planning for contingencies.



It's almost like the EU and the US states are two similar, but very different things. US states aren't sovereign countries, EU member nations are.



Yes, fiction is often more comforting than reality.

One wiki page actively sought out hasn't the equivalence of front page widely distributed print news on a daily basis in almost every EU nation. Also it details an external doomsday nuclear scenario nothing like the situation in Europe. Comparing the US and the EU shares the same unequivalence such that the US union is held together by common bonds and a glue much stronger than the fracturing EU union. But i'll try a comparison....

Imagine the governor of florida running away to washington trying to claim asylum whilst the golfing floridians are beaten by the police - see Spain, it doesn't happen.
Imagine the kkk making a comeback such that their cooperation is required to form a functioning government in Washington - see Austria , it doesn't happen.
Imagine North Carolina breaking away from the Union to go on its own - see Brexit, it doesn't happen.

and so on and so on and so on in the dysfunctional EU "union". Of course the current President Juncker would prefer a United States of Europe and it is his primary aim. As he said it best himself, I quote directly from just a month before the Brexit referendum.

Prime Ministers must stop listening so much to their voters and instead act as “full time Europeans”, according to Jean-Claude Juncker.
“Too many politicians are listening exclusively to their national opinion. And if you are listening to your national opinion you are not developing what should be a common European sense and a feeling of the need to put together efforts. We have too many part-time Europeans.”

Brexiteers thank him for the part he has played in securing the massive majority who voted for Brexit at the last election, without Juncker for sure Brexit would never have happened, the EU only has itself to blame for the mess it is in.

your optimistic brexit has one month to come up with the money or kiss the december trade talks bye bye

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ke-concessions

Lol no way, toothless threats from a paper tiger, not going to happen, another +1 for Brexit. I thank you.

I especially like how he's talking about the british when it's only the english that are on an upwards trend while scotland, northern ireland and wales aren't.

Also from his link this little gem:
"Given that the public's confidence in Brexit negotiations is at an all-time low, it would seem that the macro-political situation in the UK is not a major influence on people's personal happiness."

Strong and stable.

I do have to say, i find it awesome that @dribbles is constantly producing links that counter his arguments, saves the sane people so much time.

Are you trying to spin a positive into a negative? You appear to be gloating that that is a bad thing? Most Brexiteers have never had any confidence in the chances of an EU/British deal - that's good news, no it's great news. As a no deal gets nearer and nearer the happier the people in the UK will be, that survey bears it out. True to form the EU has never negotiated anything of consequence with a major power in 40 years, what makes you think they will start now?

Tick tock tick tock, we are really waiting for the formation of that German coalition before any chance of an EU deal, you guys have another slice of Black Forest Gateaux and take as long as you like, wait a minute, in fact why not have another election? As long as you continue with no government until after March 2019, you are making the majority of Brits very very happy.

[Edge-]

One wiki page actively sought out hasn't the equivalence of front page widely distributed print news on a daily basis in almost every EU nation. Also it details an external doomsday nuclear scenario nothing like the situation in Europe. Comparing the US and the EU shares the same unequivalence such that the US union is held together by common bonds and a glue much stronger than the fracturing EU union. But i'll try a comparison....

Imagine the governor of florida running away to washington trying to claim asylum whilst the golfing floridians are beaten by the police - see Spain, it doesn't happen.
Imagine the kkk making a comeback such that their cooperation is required to form a functioning government in Washington - see Austria , it doesn't happen.
Imagine North Carolina breaking away from the Union to go on its own - see Brexit, it doesn't happen.

and so on and so on and so on in the dysfunctional EU "union". Of course the current President Juncker would prefer a United States of Europe and it is his primary aim. As he said it best himself, I quote directly from just a month before the Brexit referendum.

Prime Ministers must stop listening so much to their voters and instead act as “full time Europeans”, according to Jean-Claude Juncker.
“Too many politicians are listening exclusively to their national opinion. And if you are listening to your national opinion you are not developing what should be a common European sense and a feeling of the need to put together efforts. We have too many part-time Europeans.”

Brexiteers thank him for the part he has played in securing the massive majority who voted for Brexit at the last election, without Juncker for sure Brexit would never have happened, the EU only has itself to blame for the mess it is in.

As I mentioned, the US doesn't deal with individual states being sovereign nations so your comparisons are pointless.

Your most salient complaint about the EU, specifically Germany, is that they're smart enough to have contingency plans, something the UK government, specifically the Conservative party, apparently isn't smart enough to have, at least when it came to Brexit.

I'm not sure if you realize just how bad that makes the UK look...

[dribbles]

As I mentioned, the US doesn't deal with individual states being sovereign nations so your comparisons are pointless.

Your most salient complaint about the EU, specifically Germany, is that they're smart enough to have contingency plans, something the UK government, specifically the Conservative party, apparently isn't smart enough to have, at least when it came to Brexit.

I'm not sure if you realize just how bad that makes the UK look...

Well I disagree it makes the UK look bad, it shows a self confidence in that whatever the world throws at the UK we will cope with and come back stronger. On the otherhand the EU German paymasters planning for failure and collapse shows a weakness and indecisiveness in a political project they have invested everything they have in. What a bad decision that must have been and just proves that Brexit was the right choice.

[Kiri]

Yes, but most couples don't own a boat.

He should have said kettle or vacuum cleaner or bloody cd collection.

E.g., I'm trying not to make reference to out of touch Euro elites, but struggling.

Fucking boat... ffs. Food banks will struggle too cope this winter because of the universal credit changes.

food banks

He can take his stupid analogies and go fuck himself.

My sister and her husband got a boat, and they both work middle-class jobs. He did build it himself though, haha.

[Edge-]

Well I disagree it makes the UK look bad, it shows a self confidence in that whatever the world throws at the UK we will cope with and come back stronger.

...literally fucking how?

Do you ever plan ahead for things? Do you view this as a beneficial, proactive measure or a sign of weakness?

On the otherhand the EU German paymasters planning for failure and collapse shows a weakness and indecisiveness in a political project they have invested everything they have in.

Alternatively, they're doing what any smart organization (including governments) does when doing long-term planning (which should absolutely be done), which includes planning for contingencies so that they can ensure that they're as prepared as possible for any and every possible outcome major events.

What a bad decision that must have been and just proves that Brexit was the right choice.

Your reasoning behind this belief appears deeply flawed and largely based off of a mixture of ignorance and fantasy.

[dribbles]

...literally fucking how?

Do you ever plan ahead for things? Do you view this as a beneficial, proactive measure or a sign of weakness?



Alternatively, they're doing what any smart organization (including governments) does when doing long-term planning (which should absolutely be done), which includes planning for contingencies so that they can ensure that they're as prepared as possible for any and every possible outcome major events.



Your reasoning behind this belief appears deeply flawed and largely based off of a mixture of ignorance and fantasy.

No of course I don't plan for failure, I plan for success, don't you? I guess it depends if you are a half glass full kind of person, or a half glass empty.

No business and that's what the EU is supposed to be all about, trade, prosperity and commerce, that spends it's time planning for failure ends in success.

All financial, employment and even "contentment" indicators show Brexit is turning out to be a rip roaring success.

[Edge-]

No of course I don't plan for failure, I plan for success, don't you? I guess it depends if you are a half glass full kind of person, or a half glass empty.

I plan for both, but I guess I'm just a sucker who enjoys not being caught with his pants down in case things don't go as hoped.

You have a real fucking weird world view, dude.

Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

No business and that's what the EU is supposed to be all about, trade, prosperity and commerce, that spends it's time planning for failure ends in success.

And Germany is spending "all its time"? Come off it, your arguments are entirely based off of you literally making shit up now.

And yes, businesses do have plans for best and worst case scenarios.

All financial, employment and even "contentment" indicators show Brexit is turning out to be a rip roaring success.

*ehem*

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-br...KBN1D726R?il=0

Voter confidence in UK handling of Brexit ebbs away: ORB poll

LONDON (Reuters) - A record majority of Britons disapprove of Prime Minister Theresa May’s handling of Brexit talks and they are increasingly skeptical that leaving the EU will make the country better off, an opinion poll showed on Tuesday.

You were saying?

[dribbles]

*ehem*

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-br...KBN1D726R?il=0



You were saying?

The days of Theresa the appeaser are numbered as she holds the minority view to remain in the EU, reluctantly serving the will of the people, leaving but not believing in it. The next PM due very shortly will not hold that view, will represent the majority view and voter confidence in the Brexit negotiations will return and soar.