Who do you think attacked first Horde burning Teldrassil or Alliance taking Undercity

[thatmikeguy]

A black dragon did it.

[KyrtF]

As for that infamous gamespot interview, here's the actual link, and the relevant part:

What is clear though form his answer is that the dev is describing the order of cinematics being shown at Blizzcon, not the actual order of events taking place. Most likely, because the interview was conducted before those cinematics were shown, and published day later.

I disagree.

Read it again.

And then things happen in the opening of Battle for Azeroth that cement it. Some of the imagery that you'll see is the scene is with Sylvanas standing in front Teldrassil on fire. Then with the opening cinematic, that event was right before the Alliance finally says, "Okay, we've had it" before they assault Lordaeron.

While he does mention the cinematic he is also talking about the event itself.

The event is shown in the cinematic....but it's also "right before the Alliance finally says, "Okay, we've had it" before they assault Lordaeron. "

The event that was in the cinematic was right before the Alliance got fed up and decided to assault Lordaeron. Anything else is a stretch. He could be misleading us, but what he says is clear....

Teldrassil burning is the event which sparks the Alliance assault.

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I dont get it, through Blizzcon they seemed to keep this close yo their chest and then spunk it an interview on the Monday morning... bizzare...

It's not the first time the left hand spolied what the right hand was trying to do.

[rayvio]

they both happened at the exact same time by an amazing coincidence

[Sorraxe]

Teldrassil burned down first by inside job done by Genn Greymane , manipulating anduin to attack Sylvanas (Horde). That dude is all about having his revenge on Sylvanas and as shown in stormheim chain quest cinematic.

[Megas Elekmatos]

That gamespot interview gave a really poorly worded statement saying horde struck first, so I'm going with it was a hypothetical answer that was taken out of context because it would be stupid to spend all of blizzcon saying we don't know who did it and then randomly being like oh hey yeah they did it.

Exactly. They specifically stated at the Blizzcon panel that we don't know for sure. We would find out at a later time whether it was the alliance or the horde. That said; I think it was Wrathion who threw the first stone. He decided since they did Legion pretty much without him; he would have the last laugh. Burned down Teldrassil for funsies; then told his best pal Manduin about it. <(^_^)>

[Florena]

Thing to keep in mind is...is either of these events even going to be the start? We know Sylvannas has some sort of plan involving Stormwind in the novel. Regardless of which faction trashes the other's capital first, that probably won't be the inciting incident for hostilities in general. So it really may not even matter if in the book, Sylvannas tries to drop hallows end stink bombs on Stormwind or if Mekkatorque replaces the blood elf supply of hair gel with glue and things escalate from there. Okay silly examples but the general idea is, could be BOTH of these acts are reprisals for something else and not the start of hostilities.

[Shadowspire]

My half educated guess would be that the alliance took the undercity first and in retaliation and desperation horde "makes room " for the new influx of undead by taking/destroying teldrasil.

[Stormwatcher]

Teldrassil burned down first by inside job done by Genn Greymane , manipulating anduin to attack Sylvanas (Horde). That dude is all about having his revenge on Sylvanas and as shown in stormheim chain quest cinematic.

ok now wait a sec, can anyone honestly say that what Sylvanas did was good? in any manner? her goal was to enslave a bunch of angles so that she can bring more undead under her control by murdering even more people... while Genn was not necessarily in the right by seeking revenge, he at least was only targeting the one person responsible for the murder of his son, not the complete destruction of her entire faction.

[Velerios]

Nomi took a cooking seminar of night-elf specialities in Teldrassil...

Seriously it was already answered that Teldrassil was first!

[KyrtF]

Why do Alliance fanboys keep regurgitating this stubborn nonsense? If they traded places, would those same fanboys expect Varian to risk the integrity of the Alliance leadership to save Vol'jin? NOPE. Do you guys really believe she should've forsaken her own faction to help the enemy faction? Why does that logic even prevail? It's ridiculous.

Even if she did have the intent to abandon Varian, we're enemies. Touché.

Sadly...its because its true. One can argue we had reasons but the simple truth is we ran. It was an opportunity to stop legion invasion before they got fully established and as such everyone there was expendable.

The Horde should have held. The Alliance should have broken. The Horde should be up in arms, talking about how the Alliances high ideals were nowhere to be found and that when the going got tough, the Lions ran. We should be talking about how the Alliance for all their words are weak and unreliable, all mouth.

Instead Sylvanas abandons a suicide mission because her people are getting attacked. Sylvanas cedes the battle to the Legion because the Horde can't take the heat. The Horde broke and ran.

Sure...there were reasons. But it still doesn't make the Alliance wrong.

It would have been so much better if the Alliance broke.

[truckboattruck]

horde attacked first, its called warcraft : orcs vs humans

i would say that anything the alliance does after that point is justified but it isnt.
it is a moral imperative for the good of their own people.

[Yvaelle]

Why do Alliance fanboys keep regurgitating this stubborn nonsense? If they traded places, would those same fanboys expect Varian to risk the integrity of the Alliance leadership to save Vol'jin? NOPE. Do you guys really believe she should've forsaken her own faction to help the enemy faction? Why does that logic even prevail? It's ridiculous.

Even if she did have the intent to abandon Varian, we're enemies. Touché.

You can justify her actions as defending her people over the lives of the Alliance, even - albeit short-sightedly - potentially over the lives of all Azeroth if the Legion was truly a world-destroying threat.

However, regardless of the legitimacy or logic of your reasons - you can't deny the Horde didn't break the fragile truce that this expansion began with. It wasn't Genn trying to assassinate Sylvanas in Stormheim that broke the truce, it was the Horde wimping out at the broken shore. Genn's actions were motivated by Varian's death, which Genn felt was the direct responsiblity of Sylvanas for not standing with us when it counted most. Sylvanas's actions gave the Legion a beachhead on our world - it was our best chance to break their assault before it started - and it was her leadership that gave them a powerful foothold right next to the Tomb of Sargeras.

All because she wasn't willing to risk her soldiers lives - that's the price of war - dead soldiers (dead undead soldiers in this case?). I'm not denying she's a skilled leader, a gifted killer, and cares deeply for her people: both Undead & Horde. All I'm saying is pretending the truce broke with Greymane is overlooking the context for Greymane's actions.

[Ursiel]

You can justify her actions as defending her people over the lives of the Alliance, even - albeit short-sightedly - potentially over the lives of all Azeroth if the Legion was truly a world-destroying threat.

However, regardless of the legitimacy or logic of your reasons - you can't deny the Horde didn't break the fragile truce that this expansion began with. It wasn't Genn trying to assassinate Sylvanas in Stormheim that broke the truce, it was the Horde wimping out at the broken shore. Genn's actions were motivated by Varian's death, which Genn felt was the direct responsiblity of Sylvanas for not standing with us when it counted most. Sylvanas's actions gave the Legion a beachhead on our world - it was our best chance to break their assault before it started - and it was her leadership that gave them a powerful foothold right next to the Tomb of Sargeras.

All because she wasn't willing to risk her soldiers lives - that's the price of war - dead soldiers (dead undead soldiers in this case?). I'm not denying she's a skilled leader, a gifted killer, and cares deeply for her people: both Undead & Horde. All I'm saying is pretending the truce broke with Greymane is overlooking the context for Greymane's actions.

Vol'jin was warchief. He gave her an order to leave. Sylvanas followed it. That's what you do. In case you didn't play the horde side, we lost Vol'jin immediately afterwards. So if you wanna blame anyone, blame him. https://youtu.be/GE9HVy1vgws?t=34s

[Darkeon]

Genn's actions were motivated by Varian's death, which Genn felt was the direct responsiblity of Sylvanas for not standing with us when it counted most.

I definitely got the feeling that, by his emphasis on his choice of dialogue, that the main reason why he was after Sylvanas was out of personal revenge for his son.
Varian's death, while it might have been part of his motivation, doesn't seem to hold as much of importance to him as you seem to be implying.

[Yvaelle]

Vol'jin was warchief. He gave her an order to leave. Sylvanas followed it. That's what you do. In case you didn't play the horde side, we lost Vol'jin immediately afterwards. So if you wanna blame anyone, blame him. https://youtu.be/GE9HVy1vgws?t=34s

Sometimes being a leader is about defying your orders and doing the right thing.

I definitely got the feeling that, by his emphasis on his choice of dialogue, that the main reason why he was after Sylvanas was out of personal revenge for his son.
Varian's death, while it might have been part of his motivation, doesn't seem to hold as much of importance to him as you seem to be implying.

"For Varian, For Gilneas, For My Son" - obviously it's personal to him. The timing was directly after word of Varian's death though. If it was strictly about his son, he would have attacked long ago (during Cataclysm).

[Darkeon]

"For Varian, For Gilneas, For My Son" - obviously it's personal to him. The timing was directly after word of Varian's death though. If it was strictly about his son, he would have attacked long ago (during Cataclysm).

"For Varian, For Gilneas - FOR. MY. SON!" - corrected.
Emphasis is important. They deliberately chose to heavily put forth that part of his dialogue over the rest.

Regarding why he picked this specific moment for his revenge, I have no idea. But one thing is sure, his motives do not seem to perfectly align with what you were originally suggesting.

[Yvaelle]

"For Varian, For Gilneas - FOR. MY. SON!" - corrected.
Emphasis is important. They deliberately chose to heavily put forth that part of his dialogue over the rest.

Regarding why he picked this specific moment for his revenge, I have no idea. But one thing is sure, his motives do not seem to perfectly align with what you were originally suggesting.

Do you have no idea? Or do you know your idea confirms my point. If he wanted revenge for his sons death in Cataclysm, he could have done that during Cataclysm, or Pandaria, or Draenor.

The guy waited 4 expansions and then decided it was time for a ham-handed assassination attempt where he would try to 1v1 a banshee (what are you going to do, punch a ghost to death?), after announcing his presence and malicious intent?

Clearly this was not him acting rationally and methodically for the previous 3 expansions to plan this brilliant assassination. He was pissed because his friend and king died like the day before he attacked Sylvanas, and he was sick of her taking people he loved away from him.

Is it about his son? Absolutely. He was a father, his son was taken from him - that shit probably sticks with you the rest of your life.
Why did he do it now? Because she just betrayed him and made him watch his friend die a needless death - not to mention gave the Legion a beachhead on Azeroth, and (at that point in the expansion) pretty much doomed our world.

[Darkeon]

Do you have no idea? Or do you know your idea confirms my point. If he wanted revenge for his sons death in Cataclysm, he could have done that during Cataclysm, or Pandaria, or Draenor.

The guy waited 4 expansions and then decided it was time for a ham-handed assassination attempt where he would try to 1v1 a banshee, after announcing his presence?

Clearly this was not him acting rationally and methodically for the previous 3 expansions to plan this brilliant assassination. He was pissed because his friend and king died like the day before he attacked Sylvanas, and he was sick of her taking people he loved away from him.

Is it about his son? Absolutely. Why did he do it? Because she just betrayed him and made him which his friend die a needless death - not to mention gave the Legion a beachhead on Azeroth, and (at that point in the expansion) pretty much doomed our world.

I don't think the character is that worried about the Alliance and Varian, as you seem to believe.

I think he is a cunning character and that, with Varian's Death, the perfect opportunity popped up as he could now whisper the Boy-King and make him join along on his quest for revenge.

[darkwarrior42]

Sometimes being a leader is about defying your orders and doing the right thing.

I think this sums up the Alliance quite nicely.

"Horde, you should do the right thing.... die."

A leader's first priority is to their people. Sylvanas keeping the Horde to die for the Alliance's benefit would have made her a poor leader indeed.

I'm sure the Horde's death would have made the Alliance very happy (Genn in particular), but the Alliance's happiness is not the Horde's priority.

The Alliance wants the Horde to die, they're just vain enough to demand a reason before attacking (note that I didn't use the word "moral"; a single glance at the history of the factions shows that neither is moral, though that's not exactly uncommon for nations or large scale factions.) They had a pretext, so given the choice between a 5-minute conversation to find out what happened and declaring all-out war at the earliest convenience... well, why sacrifice a perfectly good pretext?

[Izalla]

I think Alliance attacks Undercity first, and then Teldrassil is burned. But I think Undercity will be a response to Sylvanas's plot to attack Stormwind (whether she actually tries, or whether they just find out in time to attack her first), rather than a random unprovoked attack.