Mass shooting at church in Texas, shooter dead, multiple victims

[xanzul]

Yes, most guns are owned by a few.

NPR article states “nearly half are owned by 3%”
https://www.npr.org/2016/09/20/49476...on-study-finds

And again here by Time magazine.
http://amp.timeinc.net/time/4499088/...-owners-report


And again by the Washington Post.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...americas-guns/

It is a misconception that many people in the US have guns. Barely a 1/3 have guns. People are fed propaganda their entire lives and grow up believing it. Who can blame them?

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What is your definition of “Deep South”? Don’t look it up. I have confidence you can give us your own definition without resorting to using the ol’ interwebz.

I'm not sure how it makes anything better making the claim very few people in the United States own guns given the large number of gun related deaths per year in the US. You speak of being fed propaganda and literally try to feed propaganda to others. Do you ever think about the bullshit you post here or do you just toe the party line and copy paste right wing talking points instead?

[Stop Pretending]

It's really funny seeing gun nuts saying it's their right to own guns, but sure have no issue telling a woman they can't get an abortion, which is a woman's right. So you don't want your rights infringed upon, but you have no issue infringing on other people's?

[xanzul]

But many in this forum, especially the non Americans, would have you believe that practically everyone has immediate access to a firearm.

You do understand the person who committed this atrocity should never have been allowed to own a gun legally right? And no don't even try claiming he only used illegal guns for this crime because it is a proven fact he did buy guns legally including at least one of the ones he used to kill 26 people. It is mind boggling how you people are still spouting the same nonsense about how gun control doesn't fix anything in the face of more and more evidence coming out that the only reason this guy was able to do what he did was because of lax enforcement of current gun control laws. Not to mention the fact that 2 of 3 bullet wounds that he suffered were not remotely fatal which finally puts to rest the "good guy with a gun" bullshit because clearly good guys with guns can't aim for shit.

[Ghostpanther]

It's really funny seeing gun nuts saying it's their right to own guns, but sure have no issue telling a woman they can't get an abortion, which is a woman's right. So you don't want your rights infringed upon, but you have no issue infringing on other people's?

For one thing, no matter how I feel about abortion, I can not tell a woman she can not have what the law gives her. :P I can voice my opinion and vote for those who agree with it, same as one can about their stance on the Second Amendment.

[xanzul]

Lol! Oh yeah. Some are just not aware of the facts is why. They listen to a certain biased news report and go on that.

Disliking what is said on the news isn't bias and certainly doesn't negate facts.

[Ghostpanther]

I'm not sure how it makes anything better making the claim very few people in the United States own guns given the large number of gun related deaths per year in the US. You speak of being fed propaganda and literally try to feed propaganda to others. Do you ever think about the bullshit you post here or do you just toe the party line and copy paste right wing talking points instead?

It is not bullshit when the facts back up a claim. Most people in the US do not own a firearm and even more do not carry a firearm.

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Disliking what is said on the news isn't bias and certainly doesn't negate facts.

I agree with that.

[Stop Pretending]

You do understand the person who committed this atrocity should never have been allowed to own a gun legally right? And no don't even try claiming he only used illegal guns for this crime because it is a proven fact he did buy guns legally including at least one of the ones he used to kill 26 people. It is mind boggling how you people are still spouting the same nonsense about how gun control doesn't fix anything in the face of more and more evidence coming out that the only reason this guy was able to do what he did was because of lax enforcement of current gun control laws. Not to mention the fact that 2 of 3 bullet wounds that he suffered were not remotely fatal which finally puts to rest the "good guy with a gun" bullshit because clearly good guys with guns can't aim for shit.

Don't forget that Trump made it so clinically insane people can go back to buying guns, people on the no fly list can buy guns. The right isn't interested in an actual discussion. Their argument is really only two assinine talking points.

1. Muh rights.
2. If everyone had a gun, crime would go down.

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For one thing, no matter how I feel about abortion, I can not tell a woman she can not have what the law gives her. :P I can voice my opinion and vote for those who agree with it, same as one can about their stance on the Second Amendment.

Yet we have politicians passing laws every week undermining those women's rights. I'm not talking about you in specific, or posters on these forums, but rightwing politicians in general.

[Ghostpanther]

Don't forget that Trump made it so clinically insane people can go back to buying guns, people on the no fly list can buy guns. The right isn't interested in an actual discussion. Their argument is really only two assinine talking points.

1. Muh rights.
2. If everyone had a gun, crime would go down.

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Yet we have politicians passing laws every week undermining those women's rights. I'm not talking about you in specific, or posters on these forums, but rightwing politicians in general.

How did he do that? And people can be put on a no fly list for a number of reasons and still exercise several other Constitutional rights because putting someone on a no fly list is not Unconstitutional. And we have no Constitutional right to fly. :P

You just said rights are important earlier when you referred to a woman's right to a abortion. Which is it? Only what you feel is?

[Stop Pretending]

How did he do that? And people can be put on a no fly list for a number of reasons and still exercise several other Constitutional rights because putting someone on a no fly list is not Unconstitutional. And we have no Constitutional right to fly. :P

You just said rights are important earlier when you referred to a woman's right to a abortion. Which is it? Only what you feel is?

I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy. Yelling it's my right to own guns while trying to strip a woman of her rights is being hypocrite. Passing laws in telling a woman what she can or can't do with her body, or telling a cancer patient with no chance to live, doesn't have the right to choose death, but they can sit here and scream bloody murder to own an item.

Do you get where I'm coming from?

This:https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbc...mental-n727221

[Ghostpanther]

I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy. Yelling it's my right to own guns while trying to strip a woman of her rights is being hypocrite. Passing laws in telling a woman what she can or can't do with her body, or telling a cancer patient with no chance to live, doesn't have the right to choose death, but they can sit here and scream bloody murder to own an item.

Do you get where I'm coming from?

Yes I do. But you see, you feel important about that right. Others feel just as strongly about the Second Amendment and are resistant to any changes or challenges to it. Law makers can not pass any law which violates the Constitution and it stand if challenged. Some have tried and they got shot down by the Supreme Court.

The highest court has ruled that governments can not deny a woman her right to have a abortion. In other words, they cannot pass a law which states, no abortions will be allowed. But they do let the states regulate them to some degree. The same situation applies to the Second Amendment. If it goes too far , then it can be appealed.

[Stop Pretending]

Yes I do. But you see, you feel important about that right. Others feel just as strongly about the Second Amendment and are resistant to any changes or challenges to it. Law makers can not pass any law which violates the Constitution and it stand if challenged. Some have tried and they got shot down by the Supreme Court.

The highest court has ruled that governments can not deny a woman her right to have a abortion. In other words, they cannot pass a law which states, no abortions will be allowed. But they do let the states regulate them to some degree. The same situation applies to the Second Amendment. If it goes too far , then it can be appealed.

The key difference, a woman getting an abortion, hasn't killed 59 people at a concert, 26 people in a church, 27 people at a night club, x amount watching movies at a theatre.

I don't mind guns, I have a shotgun for the house, I believe in responsible gun ownership, and responsible laws, which we do not have. No one needs a 30 round magazine, no one needs a bump stock to simulate full auto, mental health cases don't need guns. There needs to be a punishment for people who lose or have their guns stolen. People who sell guns 3rd party without doing proper paperwork need to be punished more severely.

[Ghostpanther]

The key difference, a woman getting an abortion, hasn't killed 59 people at a concert, 26 people in a church, 27 people at a night club, x amount watching movies at a theatre.

I don't mind guns, I have a shotgun for the house, I believe in responsible gun ownership, and responsible laws, which we do not have. No one needs a 30 round magazine, no one needs a bump stock to simulate full auto, mental health cases don't need guns. There needs to be a punishment for people who lose or have their guns stolen. People who sell guns 3rd party without doing proper paperwork need to be punished more severely.

First off. I think every Constitutional right in the US is equally important.

You surely know those who are opposed to abortion feel millions are killed every year because of it? Regardless if you disagree on what life is. They still feel that way. But feelings do not change a Constitutional right.

Most Americans believe in responsible gun ownership and most exercise responsibility with them. Of those who are killed by firearms, those crimes are committed by a very, very small percentage of the people who own firearms. The figure is under 1% I would venture to say. It is however impossible to know for sure what the percentage is. But you can get a pretty good picture if you look at the sale numbers of firearms and go from there.

30 round magazine restrictions are pushed by those who know little about how fast you can swap out magazines. It would have made no difference in the shooting in Texas for example is my stance. He would have had to carry more magazines, but we are talking about a 1-2 second time to change one. There are even some good Youtube videos on how fast one can swap out a magazine.

I do agree on the Bump Stocks. They need to ban those. However, millions of them would still be out there. So not like it would be a instant solution.

I agree with the mental health point. If the person is ordered by a court to get treatment or is committed. Not if a grandson thinks Grandpa is losing it and should not have a firearm. In other words, even the old should have a right to defend their rights.

I would agree on the stolen firearm if you are willing to let those who have their cars/trucks/knives stolen, suffer the same penalty.

I am for Universal background checks for ALL firearm purchases. And yep, even severe punishment for those who violate the law.

[Mormolyce]

You’re assuming the wounds he received in the shootout were non fatal and you’re assuming he wasn’t planning to use the arsenal he had in his vehicle.

I'm not assuming anything, I'm pointing out that it's every bit as likely that he would just have blown his brains out (which he did) as commit any more murders.

In other words, it's all speculation. What we know is that he killed 26 people, and the "good guys with guns" were too late to stop him.

[Ghostpanther]

I'm not assuming anything, I'm pointing out that it's every bit as likely that he would just have blown his brains out (which he did) as commit any more murders.

In other words, it's all speculation. What we know is that he killed 26 people, and the "good guys with guns" were too late to stop him.

Why did he not just do it there once he felt he was done? And I did watch a video on TV where they where interviewing the son of one of the survivors of the attack, who he said his mom was crouched over and trying to cover someone else and the guy had his weapon pointed at her when the was shot at by the hero. He then ran out and started exchanging shots with the one who intervene. Not been able to get that video linked however, as I can not find any other news about it. If I can find it, I will link it.

[Adam Jensen]

Let's skip another massive thread and just move on.

I disagree with that flowchart.

There should be an "assume it's a Muslim until told otherwise" box in there.

[Independent voter]

First off. I think every Constitutional right in the US is equally important.

You surely know those who are opposed to abortion feel millions are killed every year because of it? Regardless if you disagree on what life is. They still feel that way. But feelings do not change a Constitutional right.

Most Americans believe in responsible gun ownership and most exercise responsibility with them. Of those who are killed by firearms, those crimes are committed by a very, very small percentage of the people who own firearms. The figure is under 1% I would venture to say. It is however impossible to know for sure what the percentage is. But you can get a pretty good picture if you look at the sale numbers of firearms and go from there.

30 round magazine restrictions are pushed by those who know little about how fast you can swap out magazines. It would have made no difference in the shooting in Texas for example is my stance. He would have had to carry more magazines, but we are talking about a 1-2 second time to change one. There are even some good Youtube videos on how fast one can swap out a magazine.

I do agree on the Bump Stocks. They need to ban those. However, millions of them would still be out there. So not like it would be a instant solution.

I would agree on the stolen firearm if you are willing to let those who have their cars/trucks/knives stolen, suffer the same penalty.

I am for Universal background checks for ALL firearm purchases. And yep, even severe punishment for those who violate the law.

What we know about 80% of the shooters: they buy a lot of guns in a short period of time, say a year and they have a domestic abuse charge in their history as in wife beating.

How about this, a 1 year waiting list for your gun. Put in the order Feb 1st 2018 and get it Feb 1st 2019. You can only order 1 gun at a time.

Secondly, if you have a domestic abuse violation, you can't own a gun. If you're caught with a gun it's prison time.

[Ghostpanther]

What we know about 80% of the shooters: they buy a lot of guns in a short period of time, say a year and they have a domestic abuse charge in their history as in wife beating.

How about this, a 1 year waiting list for your gun. Put in the order Feb 1st 2018 and get it Feb 1st 2019. You can only order 1 gun at a time.

Secondly, if you have a domestic abuse violation, you can't own a gun. If you're caught with a gun it's prison time.

But the % of those who own a lot of guns ( what is a lot? ) is very,very low in how many commit crimes.

A one year waiting period is overdoing it. A good background check can take about 2 - 4 weeks at the most (most cases a lot less ). And that would be plenty long enough. I know some take longer. But in those cases, I am sure it is not necessary. :P

By law in Ohio at least, you can not legally possess a firearm if you have been convicted for domestic violence. Even a person who has a restraining order on them can not legally own one. What Ohio does have which is not good, only those who are federally licensed gun sellers have to do a background check. That needs to change.

[Lantash]

Make it so anyone convicted of any offence involving a firearm is classed as a capital crime with a mandatory death penalty requirement.
Also if the crime was committed with a stolen firearm also charge the owner with something along the line of "Failure to secure a firearm".

[Allybeboba]

It doesn't matter how many layers there are. Your argument is always illegitimate.

So once again, if you don't wish to discuss the topic and just merely complain about others discussing the topic then just leave.

And yet another layer... kek! Keep piling it on my friend. Soon you will need a ladder.

[Ghostpanther]

Make it so anyone convicted of any offence involving a firearm is classed as a capital crime with a mandatory death penalty requirement.
Also if the crime was committed with a stolen firearm also charge the owner with something along the line of "Failure to secure a firearm".

Ahh...noooo. Lol! We are not North Korea. I do agree the punishment should be more harsh than it is however.

And you can have something stolen you know even if you have it locked up in a safe. Unless you are going to require every gun owner to have his firearm locked up in a 1 ton safe, cemented to a concrete floor. :P