I don't think people realize how easy the raids will actually be.

[VincentWolf]

It's not about difficulty. In fact, unnecessary overtuned content is what killed WoW for me (among many other things). So the last thing I want to see in vanilla/tbc legacy servers is multiple difficulties again.

That's probably what will happen. I expect them to release it in the state of 1.12.2 built (or maybe an earlier built but I assume that if they have a stable built, it will be the last one) but lock some content and then release it later (either on a specific timeline or as is needed by the community's level of progression).

Well, that's how it's done on all private servers and I personally have no issues with it. I remember, for example, back in very early TBC hunters still had that shitty huge minimum range and no Aspect of Viper. I do NOT want to play that part of TBC again.

[Slashnox]

And that's a good thing, and I strongly hope they leave it as it was. Everyone will be on equal footing in PvE.

Now PvP will be really fun.

[Daffan]

The real interesting part is if they release Vanilla in the 1.12 state and everyone has super talents and so forth and goes into MC and dominates. (No this is not pre-bc talents, just 1.12.1)

[Deleted]

It gets worse though. As you advance in later tiers, managing the damage needed before your healers run out of mana requires an every increasing amount of consumables. Flasks, Pots, Sharpening Stones and (what where the enchanting consumables for staves called again?), Food Buffs then Felwood Flower buffs, Boss turn in buffs (huge deal, massive mess logistically), Dark Runes, Healing Pots, enough warlocks and soul shards for healthstones and I am likely forgetting things. I mean just think of Loatheb where you needed to counter each wave of AoE with a different set of consumables (and have enough dps to kill him before you run out). And the reagents for the craftable consumables were nowhere near as common as they are now. 4 flasks for 40 people meant 160 black lotus!

God... that gave me Shrivers.. How i remember that hell, how each flask requires different flowers from different zones and random elemental parts..
yeaaah. people will be shocked about how hard it used to be.

and the thing is, it is not "hard" as in Mythic raiding right now that is mastering a pattern. But hard in, time consuming and wasteing time with it takes months to get 100 gold to buy your Epic mount rideing leasons.
Looord, i remember had i farmed elite creatures in hand of tyr, for The amount of money they dropped on hand, was a worth while investment, and we are talking, a few silvers.

[Eurhetemec]

Who needs a weak aura to heal when you can just click on the top raid frame of Heal Bot and not only will that always be the person who currently needed healing the most, but the add-on would pick the right heal spell and the most efficient RANK of that heal spell to top them off without over healing or using too much mana?

Who needs a weak aura to dps when your rotation is to spam frost bolt?

Yeah exactly - people forget how nuts a lot of addons were back then, and how simple rotations were.

- - - Updated - - -

I think it is more likely that you are full of shit. I think you didn't play vanilla at all. Otherwise you wouldn't be making ridiculous statements such as ...within weeks... The best players in the world took at least 7 days of playtime to get to 60. There use to be speed leveling competitions and it would take 7 days of /played to get to 60. There goes your theory of "...within weeks..." because you are not walking into MC with the gear that you leveled on with 15 players.

Well, if you think that, it shows you're ignorant and you also appear to be confused about what "within weeks" means - six or seven weeks is "within weeks", for example - eight would be "a couple of months" arguably, nine certainly would be "a couple of months" rather than "within weeks"

Speed levelers beat 7 days /played by a considerable margin, Joana did 4d20h, for example.

But let's assume it takes 7 days /played. That's say, 14 days for a dedicated bunch of nerds who are either unemployed, independently wealthy, have a lot of time off, or are students or the like. 12 hours a day is extreme? Well, yes, but I've played MMOs for 12 hours a day. I used to do it regularly when I was a student.

So that's two weeks to reach sixty. So now you're max level, and you can just get to grinding, looking for the best blues and lucky-drop purples you can find. You can also start clearing some of the earlier stuff in MC. The fewer people you use, the better, because the more you'll be getting geared up (though you do want a decent spread of classes/armour/weapon types).

Now, what patch we're on matters a lot - if it's say, 1.11 or 1.12, it's going to be a hell of a lot easier to gear up than if it's 1.1 or something. I think you're assuming it'll be 1.1 or another early patch. I don't think that's realistic - most Vanilla private servers run 1.12, and I am confident Blizzard will do something like make a hybrid or modified version of later patches, with a staggered raid release schedule.

What you seem to be thinking is that I'm saying "most" people will be doing this. They will not. But two weeks of ultra-heavy play to hit 60? Then two weeks more or less heavy play to gear up, then downing all of MC with 15 people by, say, week six? That WILL happen. If you don't believe it, you're not being realistic about anything. If you don't think at least 15-20 people on pre-Naxx raids were mostly "warm bodies" and particularly unnecessary in MC? You are being very silly. Claiming that I "didn't play Vanilla" is just bloody silly buggers, given I played since beta, bought the Collector's Edition literally day 1 US launch 8am, and so on. 11/23/2004, thanks.

I distinctly remember people getting kicked for not running CT Raid Assist, KTM Threat Meter and a DKP add-on in my guild during MC/BWL progression.

Yep. Oddly I don't think my guild, despite our progression, required CT Raid Assist and the DKP was done in a spreadsheet on the guild treasurer's computer (he was actually trustworthy on this, being a little bit autistic - I mean that literally not as an insult! - and utterly meticulous - we tried using an addon but it was more trouble than it was worth). We did require threat meters though. You could get away with not having them if you never, ever pulled threat, but... if you did, and we found out you didn't have them, you were going to get told off (we weren't a shouty guild or an instant /gkick kind of one, but you didn't get to make that kind of mistake more than once and keep being invited to raids).

[Seefer]

Wow, one mechanic that makes you a bomb! if only retail had something that hard!

You mean the bomb that people in the Molten Core LFR couldn't manage to do?

[Seefer]

People did it just fine. I was there for it, the whole thing about LFR MC being hard was wildly overblown. Sure, new people who had not clue what to do might fuck up one time, but lets not pretend this was some hard mechanic that people could not grasp after seeing it one time.

Really? I was there too and saw wipe after wipe after wipe to the point after clearing it (after about 45 mins to an hour) I didn't want to do it again and that was days after it went live.

[Seefer]

You had some bad luck. I ran it three times I think? I know one run we wiped a few times but one guy was griefing people.

It wasn't just me, and they also had experienced MC raiders (us) telling them what to do and they ignored us.

[Deleted]

Anyone thinking the game will release in its original version is wrong and it would be terrible.

The best thing for it is to take an approach similar to how Jagex do OS runescape.

[s_bushido]

People did it just fine. I was there for it, the whole thing about LFR MC being hard was wildly overblown. Sure, new people who had not clue what to do might fuck up one time, but lets not pretend this was some hard mechanic that people could not grasp after seeing it one time.

Have...have you seen the greater invasion succubus boss? Literally the same 15 people getting mind-controlled the entire fight because they couldn't figure out that they needed to look away.

[Deleted]

people are saying it'll be objectively easier, that might be the case, but is that really so bad? if only 0.1% of players beat naxx last time around, maybe it's okay for 15% to beat it this time around, if they release raids one at a time and people are clearing MC with 20 people within the first few weaks maybe they can tune the stuff a bit, but if not, I think it's fine as is

[Daggot Ur]

God... that gave me Shrivers.. How i remember that hell, how each flask requires different flowers from different zones and random elemental parts..
yeaaah. people will be shocked about how hard it used to be.

and the thing is, it is not "hard" as in Mythic raiding right now that is mastering a pattern. But hard in, time consuming and wasteing time with it takes months to get 100 gold to buy your Epic mount rideing leasons.
Looord, i remember had i farmed elite creatures in hand of tyr, for The amount of money they dropped on hand, was a worth while investment, and we are talking, a few silvers.

Another BSer that never played in vanilla. Random elemental parts for flasks? Yeah right... 100 gold to buy epic mount riding skill? Only changed later and then it was 92 with honored anyway plus you needed to buy the actual mount. The zone you are referring to was called Tyrs hand, not vice versa and farming those elites for just money was purely dumb - they were farmed for totally different stuff. But you wouldn't know that so stop pretending

[pateuvasiliu]

It's funny to see those threads. The reality is a lot of people won't make it to 60, even fewer will get pre-raid gear ( you have some farming to do ) and even fewer will actually be part of a guild serious enough to be on the same page and clear.

You say they're easy and what not, well there have been 2 recent Vanilla servers and there are still plenty guilds there that haven't cleared the content despite it being out for months.

One thing I can tell you for sure, fewer people ( % ) will have killed C'thun or Kel'thuzad by the time Vanilla v2 ends than Sargeras/Argus in Legion.

[AeneasBK]

It wasn't just me, and they also had experienced MC raiders (us) telling them what to do and they ignored us.

We talking the 10 year anniversary thing? Legit took about 3 and a half hours for my group to complete (admittedly was liek 1-4:30am EU time and some was due to ppl dropping out to go to bed) but still, wiping more than once on a boss in MC with Warlords of Draenor talents and specs, you kinda have to facepalm.

[Seefer]

We talking the 10 year anniversary thing? Legit took about 3 and a half hours for my group to complete (admittedly was liek 1-4:30am EU time and some was due to ppl dropping out to go to bed) but still, wiping more than once on a boss in MC with Warlords of Draenor talents and specs, you kinda have to facepalm.

Pretty much

[Deleted]

Another BSer that never played in vanilla. Random elemental parts for flasks? Yeah right... 100 gold to buy epic mount riding skill? Only changed later and then it was 92 with honored anyway plus you needed to buy the actual mount. The zone you are referring to was called Tyrs hand, not vice versa and farming those elites for just money was purely dumb - they were farmed for totally different stuff. But you wouldn't know that so stop pretending

Just stop it man. It been 10 years since it was vanila, what if my memeory of the order of "hand" and "tyr "goes. it was 100 gold to buy the rideing skills when i could afford it. Just. stop it, yes you also played in it. Here" give cookie" take it, and be proud that you are More superior then everyone, because you can remember it better then most.

[Deleted]

Elysium release 7 january, MC 40 clean the 18. Naxx clean the day of the release.
Vanilla is very fun for the casuals and LFR peoples. True players will play at BFA.

[Deleted]

Vanilia raids were tuned, TBC raids were not.

[Hottage]

Did you even Vanilla no ofc you didnt with a statement like this, you wont get passed Lucifron with 15 ppl not even in BiS Blues, do you really think half the raid was just standing around doing nothing?
Most classes were hell of alot easier to play back then and many had 1-3 buttons to even press to do optimal dps how shit do you think guilds were.
Garr you will need atleast 4 warlocks for example, good luck on baron when half your 15 man raid gets bombs.
And then there is Ragnaros which guilds wiped on for weeks after having all others on farm because of the dps needed to down him, your healers will be oom before the first set of sons are down let alone your 5th set with the low dps you will have.
Things may have been mechanically easy but most of those easy mechanics would literally kill you if you failed them.

You're right I have no idea how vanilla was.

[Deleted]

thats because you are talking about private server where serious players dont play

in this case its official server which wont shut down so ton of good players will join and guilds will be able to pick and choose from bis classes

because guess what - good players wont think even for a second only if they want to raid in vanilla they will choose bis classes/spec just like they do on live atm.

"guilds will be able to pick and choose from bis classes"
You are aware that there are enough people on elysium to the the exact same thing, right?

"thats because you are talking about private server where serious players dont play "
Really? You think the players that want this most have not played on any private servers for the last years? Get real.

"because guess what - good players wont think even for a second only if they want to raid in vanilla they will choose bis classes/spec just like they do on live atm"
And again you are way of. You are talking about world raid races, no one on HC will class stack to gain a small amount higher dps after the elite has completed it.
So why do you think people would do the same on classic, where the numbers will be WAY lower and the cap players even less then that?