Bloodlust did not exist in Vanilla

[barrsftw]

Yes. Not only did Alliance have Paladins, they had better Priest racials. Also, Paladins could totally cheese Razorgore and auto win with DI. The generally consensus from what I remember is Shamans were better in PvP and Paladins were better in PvE.

[Florena]

I miss DI.

Also I just realized horde will be funneled into the barrens again.

[AeneasBK]

rofl - WF totem says hi - and considering combat swords rogues / fury warriors make up half the legit DPS specs in Vanilla

Not to mention twisting, good shaman would twist WF w/ GoA.

Clearly you didn't play horde.

I'd question if you ever played Alliance if you're remotely trying to compare the use of a shaman over a paladin in raids.

By all means think Shaman are wicked cool

- - - Updated - - -

Yes. Not only did Alliance have Paladins, they had better Priest racials. Also, Paladins could totally cheese Razorgore and auto win with DI. The generally consensus from what I remember is Shamans were better in PvP and Paladins were better in PvE.

And this is because people didn't have a half-clue about how to play the game.

Fact is apart from MAYBE some very specific encounters where the cleansing totem is good (still only group wide mind, so not really "THAT" good, when compared to say "OH YOU GUYS CAN'T DISPELL MAGIC BUMMER") Paladins outclass shaman in pretty much every single way.
, PvE and PvP.

[babyback]

Alliance are more suited to group play in both PvE and PvP, by quite a fair degree.

Anyone remotely "tryhard" about classic servers will be rolling as Alliance. In fact a further 'emergent' problem with their PvP servers will be that unless they "bribe" some of the hardcore to roll horde it will be laughably one-sided.

The best guilds during vanilla were still Horde so the racials didn’t really matter. Afaik the only racial horde really wanted was fear ward to avoid stance dancing for tanks.

[Charge me Doctor]

Yes. Not only did Alliance have Paladins, they had better Priest racials. Also, Paladins could totally cheese Razorgore and auto win with DI. The generally consensus from what I remember is Shamans were better in PvP and Paladins were better in PvE.

This one should have a picture from rick and morty show, when rick invented a robot to pass the butter, but with "you cast DI on razorgore" caption instead

- - - Updated - - -

I'd question if you ever played Alliance if you're remotely trying to compare the use of a shaman over a paladin in raids.

By all means think Shaman are wicked cool

- - - Updated - - -



And this is because people didn't have a half-clue about how to play the game.

Fact is apart from MAYBE some very specific encounters where the cleansing totem is good (still only group wide mind, so not really "THAT" good, when compared to say "OH YOU GUYS CAN'T DISPELL MAGIC BUMMER") Paladins outclass shaman in pretty much every single way.
, PvE and PvP.

Every time people bring up a cleansing totem i giggle. Tee hee you can cleanse poison of 5 players in your group, i can do the same by spamming one button and not being required to throw myself between groups.

But yeah, shamans still were cool. Not as cool as paladins tho

[RoKPaNda]

I see people talking about Salv a lot, which was nice, but it became a lot less of a big deal later on. BoK was where it was at and why there were so many more consistent Naxx re-clears for Alliance than for Horde. Salv was nice but threat management was a lot less of a big deal than it's remembered as being. It could be a little bit of a headache for the fury warrior in your group but it was really just a matter of stopping attacking for a couple of seconds. Most other high DPS classes that were capable of over-aggro had a button to fix that. BoK was the real MVP.

[Trend]

Maybe they're confusing bloodlust with fear ward.

I think they're confusing BL with WF totem. They know shamans brought something really good to the table but misplace the specifics. A WF totem in the right melee party was a tremendous damage boost.

[AeneasBK]

The best guilds during vanilla were still Horde so the racials didn’t really matter. Afaik the only racial horde really wanted was fear ward to avoid stance dancing for tanks.

Yeah again, that's because even the "best guilds" in vanilla didn't know a lot. Only reason to play horde is if you don't min/max.

[Mikah]

The best guilds during vanilla were still Horde so the racials didn’t really matter. Afaik the only racial horde really wanted was fear ward to avoid stance dancing for tanks.

Hordes had tremor totems (which all shamans could do), and undead warriors could get out of fear with their racial.

While fear ward looked really good on paper, very few players initially rolled dwarves as racial. It was not a popular combo.


You really needed very dedicated players back then to reroll a dwarf priest just for fear ward. This was not your 'regular' raiding guild.

So except for the few hardcore guilds, it was generally easier to manage the fear mechanics for horde with tremor totems or stance dancing with the available roster.

[AeneasBK]

I see people talking about Salv a lot, which was nice, but it became a lot less of a big deal later on. BoK was where it was at and why there were so many more consistent Naxx re-clears for Alliance than for Horde. Salv was nice but threat management was a lot less of a big deal than it's remembered as being. It could be a little bit of a headache for the fury warrior in your group but it was really just a matter of stopping attacking for a couple of seconds. Most other high DPS classes that were capable of over-aggro had a button to fix that. BoK was the real MVP.

Yah, you wait until you have a raid group maxed to the teeth. Salvation is gonna be the most important spell for PvE in "new classic" simply because people are gonna be pushing the kind of numbers they are capable of, not just "bigger than the others". MT's are gonna be fully DPS geared and still struggle to keep up with the threat output potential. I mean sure you can have mostof your raid "stopping attacking for a few seconds" but at that point it is worthless to give Kings over Salv.

- - - Updated - - -

So except for the few hardcore guilds, it was generally easier to manage the fear mechanics for horde with tremor totems or stance dancing with the available roster.

Lol, tremor totem doesn't even compare to Fear Ward. I mean, whats that? Nef just breathed over your entire healer team because tremor didn't "tick" for the first 2 seconds of fear. GG wipe and try again.

[WeaponizedPillows]

I raided in Naxx 40 and I definitely thought bloodlust was in vanilla. So maybe all you cunts insulting everyone for not perfectly remembering the game as it was near a decade and a half ago should settle the fuck down.

Is this really such a big deal that you have to be giant dickbags about it? Human memory is fallible, oh, like we didn't know that. Just hug it out, god damn.

[babyback]

Yah, you wait until you have a raid group maxed to the teeth. Salvation is gonna be the most important spell for PvE in "new classic" simply because people are gonna be pushing the kind of numbers they are capable of, not just "bigger than the others". MT's are gonna be fully DPS geared and still struggle to keep up with the threat output potential. I mean sure you can have mostof your raid "stopping attacking for a few seconds" but at that point it is worthless to give Kings over Salv.

- - - Updated - - -



Lol, tremor totem doesn't even compare to Fear Ward. I mean, whats that? Nef just breathed over your entire healer team because tremor didn't "tick" for the first 2 seconds of fear. GG wipe and try again.

I agree, BoS was awesome. In Naxx Horde mages had to hold of for a few secs before they could do dps. One fireball crit would aggro the boss. Whilst Alliance mages could go all out from the start.

- - - Updated - - -

Hordes had tremor totems (which all shamans could do), and undead warriors could get out of fear with their racial.

While fear ward looked really good on paper, very few players initially rolled dwarves as racial. It was not a popular combo.


You really needed very dedicated players back then to reroll a dwarf priest just for fear ward. This was not your 'regular' raiding guild.

So except for the few hardcore guilds, it was generally easier to manage the fear mechanics for horde with tremor totems or stance dancing with the available roster.

Tremor totem had a pulse effect so you couldn’t really rely on it. If the whole raid got feared you had to get lucky with the pulse if you put it down prior to the fear.

I played in one of the best guilds in the world during vanilla and we didn’t min max our roster. Sure, a dwarf priest was nice but most of our priests were Nelfs anyway. No guilds were really min maxing at the level we see today when it came to races.

[AeneasBK]

Also apart from the reliability of "self dispelling fear every 3 minutes, when any fight with fear it's cast every 30 seconds or even more frequently" (hint: negligable reliability you still gotta cover the other 5 fears) UD warrior tanks are freaking AWFUL. Maybe in Naxx the SR is useful in a teensy tiny way, but for horde, Orc Warrior tank or go home.

I mean the HP for Tauren is nice but the 5 weapon skill is literally BROKEN OP in the old weapon skills combat system. It's like a free 3% hit for starters, in a world where hit gear isn't exactly all over the place (see t3 2set + 4set bonusses for warriors :P)

[RoKPaNda]

Yah, you wait until you have a raid group maxed to the teeth. Salvation is gonna be the most important spell for PvE in "new classic" simply because people are gonna be pushing the kind of numbers they are capable of, not just "bigger than the others". MT's are gonna be fully DPS geared and still struggle to keep up with the threat output potential. I mean sure you can have mostof your raid "stopping attacking for a few seconds" but at that point it is worthless to give Kings over Salv.

Why would you ever even think that? If you're clueless and assuming it's because people know more now than they did then, if you were raiding Naxx you were aware of the theorycrafters. A lot of it required guesstimates, but it existed. DPS isn't going to be any higher. We already had rotations and optimal gear figured out. that's why rogues had AEP and warriors had SEP systems. Theoretical max DPS was already figured out, that's how we knew that C'thun was overtuned. That's how fury warriors knew that leather and mail were generally better than plate for most slots.

You seem to be forgetting that defense was a thing. That's not going to change. Don't forget that Defense didn't go away until several expansions later. Stack to not get crushed, and stack defensives because Active Mitigation didn't exist. It was get as much block/dodge/parry as you possibly can. At no point will tanks be DPS geared.

If you think stopping DPS for 5 seconds outweighs the benefits of a free % based stat increase I can't help you. I was there. I played a warrior, I didn't have an aggro drop button, I actually had a skill in my main rotation that generated EXTRA threat. Managing threat was a breeze after BWL.

Also apart from the reliability of "self dispelling fear every 3 minutes, when any fight with fear it's cast every 30 seconds or even more frequently" (hint: negligable reliability you still gotta cover the other 5 fears) UD warrior tanks are freaking AWFUL. Maybe in Naxx the SR is useful in a teensy tiny way, but for horde, Orc Warrior tank or go home.

I mean the HP for Tauren is nice but the 5 weapon skill is literally BROKEN OP in the old weapon skills combat system. It's like a free 3% hit for starters, in a world where hit gear isn't exactly all over the place (see t3 2set + 4set bonusses for warriors :P)

UD racial was also completely worthless on a warrior tank. Berserker Rage was available for pretty much every fear, if you were in content that mattered stance dancing was zero problem. The extra damage from the 1 second in berserker was completely trivial. You were going to dodge/parry/block that hit regardless, at worst the damage increase would just negate your block for that one hit.

[Judic]

Not true at all. Shamans wouldn't be using windfury, it was for pvp, they would use the other air totem (forgot the name) that also reduced threat.

Tranquil Air totem. I thought this didn't come out until later on? I played alliance during Vanilla so I don't know when it was added.

- - - Updated - - -

I raided in Naxx 40 and I definitely thought bloodlust was in vanilla. So maybe all you cunts insulting everyone for not perfectly remembering the game as it was near a decade and a half ago should settle the fuck down.

Is this really such a big deal that you have to be giant dickbags about it? Human memory is fallible, oh, like we didn't know that. Just hug it out, god damn.

I think the reason people get so upset about it is because they don't want the classic servers to be changed at all. They want the original experience again. If they start making changes to imbalances, they could keep making more. This would turn it into Classic Remastered, and that is something I don't want. People do need to calm down some though, I agree.

[AeneasBK]

UD racial was also completely worthless on a warrior tank. Berserker Rage was available for pretty much every fear, if you were in content that mattered stance dancing was zero problem. The extra damage from the 1 second in berserker was completely trivial. You were going to dodge/parry/block that hit regardless, at worst the damage increase would just negate your block for that one hit.

Some fights (Onyxia, Nefarian in particular) have a CD on fear shorter than the 30 second CD on 'zerker stance. But we're in agreement about UD racial being worthless anyway; was just pointing it out. That coupled with Vanillas kinda frustrating 'randomesque' timers on some abilities... Fear Ward still pisses all over any alternative.

And okay, if you insist, all 40 people in a Naxxramas raid group were complete min/maxers and knew everything about how every mechanic worked. But there have been plenty of peopel coming forward to say that wasn't the case at all; so I'm not sure who to believe.

What I find very easy to believe, is that after 12 years of playing, people are going to understand how the game works and play it better, on average, than players with < 3 years of experience did.

Defense is a thing, but depending on the fight, it just isn't as valuable as having healers heal you from the extra damage and stacking threat-maximising stats. Some encounters, sure, threat is less of an issue for w/e reason.

That said , we'll simply have to see how it plays out. I can't say you're wrong; I can only go on other peoples testimonies.

[Khain]

Might, Wisdom, Kings, Salvation, Light, Sanctuary >>>> WF Totem.

[meowfurion]

"We want classic vanilla servers!"

Blizzard gives classic vanilla servers.

Players begging for it play it, figure out it wasn't all that wonderful and are confusing it with their first time with WoW nostalgia.

Players change their mind and classic servers die out from maybe 1000 people being on them.

The Wow Swami predicts!

[Deleted]

Also, no battle res, so if you fucked up, have fun afking the entire boss fight.

Druid had a BR but you needed reagent and long CD i think.

- - - Updated - - -

Am I remembering right that you used to have to farm the feathers - like NPCs didn't sell them?

I think you're right, most reagents were sold by the vendors in the cities, but there were a few things that weren't.

may be wrong though, long time ago :P

[Deleted]

"We want classic vanilla servers!"

Blizzard gives classic vanilla servers.

Players begging for it play it, figure out it wasn't all that wonderful and are confusing it with their first time with WoW nostalgia.

Players change their mind and classic servers die out from maybe 1000 people being on them.

The Wow Swami predicts!

Thanks for telling that for like the 10th time.