How do you feel about the following phrase?

[LawnmowersUnited]

It clearly isn't true given how often antifa assaults non violent neo-nazi protestors.

[therealstegblob]

I haven't actually met anyone who commits violence this way. I've seen a few videos, sure. I've read interviews with Spencer, and I think he's seriously dishonest intellectually. It's more disturbing to me that a message from someone like him has some people agreeing.

Your first post I responded to seemed to suggest that people's attitudes towards fascism nonsensically changed between WW2 and 2017. What does this have to do with your original post?

[Deleted]

Commies killed people, that doesn’t mean it is okay to punch you for being one.

If the revolutionary communist party or whomever kills someone I would expect them to be banned and prevented from organizing as a terrorist organization.

You seem to want different rules for nazis than exist for other terrorist organizations. Difficult to believe there is a rationale for that other than you have sympathies with the far right.

- - - Updated - - -

If you're unable to see the blatant and fundamental difference between Germany invading Europe and fringe neo-nazis in 2017 then maybe you should wait until you're done with High School to post on the internet about it.

On the contrary I think it is you who has the immature attitude. You seem to think this is some sort of joke. If you were old enough to have met many people who had suffered at the hands of the nazis then you won't be so childishly keen to ignore the possibility of a nazi resurgence.

It is also apparent you haven't studied the history of the subject. The nazis early attempts to take power were amateurish and often ridiculed with communist forces being the overriding priority of law enforcement and the state. That was a critical error. That is playing out in exactly the same fashion here.

[Blamblam41]

The phrase isn't true. There are plenty of "Antifa" who intentionally seek out violent ways to shut others down, which is the opposite of anti-fascism.

They are as "Antifa" as white supremacists are Republican.

[Ehrenpanzer]

No they are not. Nazis alone killed 16 million people in cold blood. Antifa organizations have not killed even the tiniest fraction of that number.

Any one trying to pretend there is some kind of equivalence between the groups is deeply suspicous.

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah someone hit someone with a bike lock. That sounds like the holocaust.

Those would historically be Communists... you sure you want to crack open the debate on who killed more people?

[Cruor]

WWII: Smack down some fascists!
2017: Fascists are just expressing an opinion!

Ok then.

Uh.. no. America fought WW 2 because Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. England and France attacked them because they attacked Poland and they had sworn to defend them. Nobody was fighting them at the time "just to smack Nazi's" Please get your facts strait. Americans in the 1940's would be horrified by what America is now and being turned into but the radical left wing.

To answer the question, I hope an alt leftie attacks me so I can respond with a more deadly defense.

[therealstegblob]

On the contrary I think it is you who has the immature attitude. You seem to think this is some sort of joke. If you were old enough to have met many people who had suffered at the hands of the nazis then you won't be so childishly keen to ignore the possibility of a nazi resurgence.

I am 26 years old and have studied the history of Hitler, The Nazi Party and WW2 pretty closely (for an amateur history lover, at least). I have had a one-on-one talk with a man who lived for eight months in a Nazi labor camp.

But, you know, if I don't advocate open violence in the streets that means I'm some kind of immature kid who doesn't understand how serious Nazi Germany was. Or maybe you're just a dick. I dunno.

It is also apparent you haven't studied the history of the subject. The nazis early attempts to take power were amateurish and often ridiculed with communist forces being the overriding priority of law enforcement and the state. That was a critical error. That is playing out in exactly the same fashion here.

That's only because the Nazi's attempts to take power were brash and Hitler was acting before he had the means to do so (which he meditated heavily on while in prison after his failed original coup). Nazi sympathizers and people who more or less agreed with Hitler's brand of ultra-German nationalism (especially when it came to the Jewish population of Germany and the re-unification of the countries of Austria and Bavaria) were all over the place and antisemitism was a rather public thing that not even the moderate Weimar Republic did much to stop.

We are not living in a time, or in a country, where "Nazi resurgence" is really a thing. We do, however, live in a time where social media and the internet allow fascist-minded individuals living in large city and metro areas to meet and connect and take their hatred into the realm of IRL (just a decade or so prior to today, most of these people would've just remained closet racists who never met up with any like-minded comrades due to the taboo nature of being a racist in modern USA).

We are not at war and Nazis are not taking over the government. Trying to curb them in the streets with open violence paradoxically only makes them stronger. Punching Richard Spencer just gave Richard Spencer a ton of fuel to convince his followers (and those who may have been on the fence about following him) that Neo-Nazis were "under attack" and that their 'peaceful protesting' would be met with violence (which antifa tools have proven more than once). A punch to Richard Spencer results in a chain reaction where some lunatic alt-righter believes a second Civil War is happening and prompts him to run his van into a crowd of antifa protesters (this is not hyperbole, lots of alt-right drones actually believe a new civil war is on the horizon).

We should not support or condone racist doctrines (so long as we don't overreach and morbidly suppress free speech somehow, but that's beside the point) but meeting them with open violence is stupid and harmful.

Now that I've thoroughly destroyed you, I can only assume you'll decide to get angry at make some shitty retort. This is why I will refrain from reading anything further you post. Thanks, and have a fun.

[Deleted]

No black people are so many you cannot just say "they are x". Why is that so hard to understand? Donald from p1 saw a handful of people before his eyes who were athletes and were fast - sure they might share some physical attributes but he still only wants to say something about those he sees including few other he has in his mind. Everything else in bad generalization and discriminates people with same sad attributes "black" who are not fast for whatever reason. I mean what pops up first if someone says "pitbulls are aggressive"? Sure they were once breaded to fight and what not - but aren't you upset by the one who just told you that when you only know kind pitbulls?

It's inhumane to even refer to statistical numbers because "majority" has a certain trait. It's not okay to generalize even with that statistical "fact". In Germany we have §1 of our constitution say "The dignity of men is unimpeachable." Meaning there is zero difference between the value of one human and trillions of humans. And that's something even I am "proud of" for it should be the most normal thing in the world.

While personally I agree with you (must admit in some cases I am prejudgemental) that is not how most people think sadly.

[HumbleDuck]

Antifascism is not the problem
Some antifascists are.

The phrase is true. Who wields it may have misguided, or even ulterior, motives.

Pretty much this.
However I would add people who willingly mix the two together to the list of problems as well.

[Mormolyce]

Yet the "anti-fascist" groups that show up to fight the nazis/fascists/whatever aren't really representative of the entire population though, are they?

I mean, what groups are you talking about? Is this all a thought experiment in your head?

[Alydael]

When you have to go in public- wearing a black mask to hide your identity for what you are about to do, you just "might" be doing the wrong thing.

Just sayin......

[Mormolyce]

I mean, didn't we round up all the communists after WWII? The Red Scare? This happened between 47-56, but that doesn't make it a good thing does it?

Do i agree with Fascists? nah, but saying "we should just be allowed to assault them" is pretty fucking stupid.

Question - what should the Weimar Republic have done about the rise of the Nazi movement in the 1930s?

Maybe invite them round for tea and a chat?

- - - Updated - - -

We are not at war and Nazis are not taking over the government.

But that's a silly thing to say, because the Weimar Republic was never at war with the nascent Nazi movement, and by the time they were taking over the government it was too late - that is literally the end of the Weimar Republic. So you're saying let's wait until they win before we try to stop them?

[Deleted]

I am 26 years old

26. Shit. I have socks older than you.

[therealstegblob]

But that's a silly thing to say, because the Weimar Republic was never at war with the nascent Nazi movement, and by the time they were taking over the government it was too late - that is literally the end of the Weimar Republic. So you're saying let's wait until they win before we try to stop them?

Lmao. What credible argument do you possibly think you have that the Neo-nazis are going to win the support/control of the government and the military in order to stage a legal coup or something. Or anything even close to that? Go on, I'm all ears.

Edit: For the record, I'm not saying we should "let them win" or "not fight them at all", I am condemning physical violence and aggression and dashing the horribly fake arguments of people comparing the USA in 2017 to World War 2.

- - - Updated - - -

26. Shit. I have socks older than you.

Socks. Wow. You also make really stupid shitposts.

[Mormolyce]

Edit: For the record, I'm not saying we should "let them win" or "not fight them at all", I am condemning physical violence and aggression and dashing the horribly fake arguments of people comparing the USA in 2017 to World War 2.

So do you condemn physical violence used against the Nazis by the people of the Weimar Republic in the 1930s?

What do you think they should've done about the Nazis?

[Kalis]

If the revolutionary communist party or whomever kills someone I would expect them to be banned and prevented from organizing as a terrorist organization.

You seem to want different rules for nazis than exist for other terrorist organizations. Difficult to believe there is a rationale for that other than you have sympathies with the far right.

If they are members of a terrorist organisation, then it is up to the authorities to deal with, not you. You don’t get to punch people with extremist views, just as people don’t get to punch you for being an extremist.

How the fuck do you come to the conclusion that me saying it is not okay to punch Commies like you, translates as me having sympathy for the far right?

I don’t want anyone punching people for political reasons. No punching...it is not complicated.

[Deleted]

Lmao. What credible argument do you possibly think you have that the Neo-nazis are going to win the support/control of the government and the military in order to stage a legal coup or something. Or anything even close to that? Go on, I'm all ears.

The fact that in Charlottesville law enforcement handed their dicks over to a group of armed nazis and de facto control of a town, and subsequently they killed someone. The President of your country and millions of people subsequently refused to condemn the nazis and instead condemned those who tried to stop them.

Aside from the large numbers of far right supporters in the US military, which has noticeably scaled back efforts to root them out, there seems to be open support for far right groups on the internet. Surveys show significant numbers of Trump supporters and surprisingly high numbers of Democrats believe in racial supremacy theories that would translate into millions of people.

Additionally, unlike Nazi Germany, Mussolini's Italy or Franco's Spain, the US has already industrialized and mobilized for war and is fighting seven already.

Yes, it is a credible threat.

[Daedius]

It's an oxymoron considering people like Antifa actively seek and provoke trouble and violence -- how's that "self defence" ?

[Deleted]

If they are members of a terrorist organisation, then it is up to the authorities to deal with, not you. You don’t get to punch people with extremist views, just as people don’t get to punch you for being an extremist.

The police handed control of Charlottesville to armed nazis. Which part of that do you not understand? If the police had confiscated their weapons, or controlled the protesters to any extent, as they had done in numerous other marches such as those organized by BLM or Occupy Wall Street, there would have been no need for antifa to be there.

- - - Updated - - -

How the fuck do you come to the conclusion that me saying it is not okay to punch Commies like you, translates as me having sympathy for the far right?

By implication you clearly support the nazis.

A few months you were arguing that Jeremy Corbyn's failure to explicitly condemn the IRA was tantamount to support for it. In fact Corbyn did condemn the IRA and everyone else involved in the troubles for their use of violence, but that didn't seem to be enough for you.

Applying your own logic to this station you have clearly condemned antifa, yet you have not condemned the nazis.

By implication you clearly support the nazis.

[Kalis]

The police handed control of Charlottesville to armed nazis. Which part of that do you not understand? If the police had confiscated their weapons, or controlled the protesters to any extent, as they had done in numerous other marches such as those organized by BLM or Occupy Wall Street, there would have been no need for antifa to be there.

There was no need for Antifa to be there, they never help and the Yanks have their gun rights that they cling to like it’s sacred.

By implication you clearly support the nazis.

A few months you were arguing that Jeremy Corbyn's failure to explicitly condemn the IRA was tantamount to support for it. In fact Corbyn did condemn the IRA and everyone else involved in the troubles for their use of violence, but that didn't seem to be enough for you.

Applying your own logic to this station you have clearly condemned antifa, yet you have not condemned the nazis.

By implication you clearly support the nazis.

Unfortunately for your little theory, I have condemned Nazis, neo-Nazis, BNP, NF, Britain First, both Franco’s and Mussolini’s fascist regimes, the Greek Junta, as well as the rest of the far right. Along with them I have condemned the Commies, SWP and the rest of the far left.

I don’t like extremists of any persuasion, political or religious.

I think Priti Patel is a bit too far right and she isn’t even far right, so I have absolutely no issues with condemning the actual far right.

Disliking the far left does not mean I support the far right, you however do hold extremist views and have supported the use of political violence.