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  1. #81
    The United States operates under a de facto situation with English as the primary language with road signs, business contracts, government proceedings and so forth being done primarily in English. There are few if any laws on the books about English as a primary language.
    I have been chosen by the big metal hand in the sky!

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by spanishninja View Post
    yes! why can't immigrants choose to broaden their horizons and learn to speak English for the fun of it?

    Oh wait, perhaps you're saying that an english-speaking person learning spanish is supposed to be some kind of super fun experience, but an immigrant learning english is some kind of terrible chore? Awesome logic!
    If you are going to expect people to learn your language, when you don't want to learn theirs, then there is a clear disconnect. If it bothers you, don't talk to someone who can't speak English.

    I have no desire to force anyone to learn a language they don't want to learn, so you are arguing against something that I'm not even saying.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I didn't know it was YOUR country. Does that mean we should force the Southern folk to not speak with heavy accents, or use slang?

    That's the entire point, it's not everyone's language. There are tens of millions of people in this country who do not have it as a primary language, or don't speak it at all. If it bothers you that much, then don't talk to them. Thank God we don't have a national language, because it would be one more way for people to try and be authoritarian asshats.
    language and accents are clearly not the same thing, judging by the fact that if I traveled to the south, I wouldn't need a friggin interpreter to understand what people said there.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by spanishninja View Post
    language and accents are clearly not the same thing, judging by the fact that if I traveled to the south, I wouldn't need a friggin interpreter to understand what people said there.
    You clearly haven't been to rural Mississippi or Cajun country.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    If you are going to expect people to learn your language, when you don't want to learn theirs, then there is a clear disconnect. If it bothers you, don't talk to someone who can't speak English.

    I have no desire to force anyone to learn a language they don't want to learn, so you are arguing against something that I'm not even saying.
    This same line can easily also flip around the other way. immigrants can't expect english speaking people to learn their language if they don't want to learn english. if it bothers them, don't talk to someone who can't speak [insert language here]. Difference here though, is that it is much harder to succeed in the US without speaking english, than it is for US-born people who don't speak other lauguages.

    I already learned a language other than the one I was born with, so you know, it's not that hard.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    You clearly haven't been to rural Mississippi or Cajun country.
    Perhaps the spoken dialects are different, but I can still read the signs at least.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayburner View Post
    I work in the construction field sort of. We need all the immigrants we can get.
    None of the construction companies I know who build anything worth a shit are going to take someone with a 100% language barrier. Safety and quality both have a problem with that, and those are absolute currently.
    As for hard working... well, same as any other race/ethnicity/so forth, sweeping generalizations are fun, but also completely fucking stupid.
    Some make you wish you could clone them, some make you wonder how the hell they made it here.
    Welcome to reality.
    Here's the thing in Canada though: like many places, people are having less children. That's less bodies to tax. The gov wants more, thus immigration.
    If you hate immigrants/have a problem with them, push out taxables.. I mean babies.
    It's the old shut up or put out thing fo sho (lol)
    Want to make a statement/fight immigration rates? there it is, get your womb/wallet warmed up.
    "There are other sites on the internet designed for people to make friends or relationships. This isn't one" Darsithis Super Moderator
    Proof that the mmochamp community can be a bitter and lonely place. What a shame.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by spanishninja View Post
    This same line can easily also flip around the other way. immigrants can't expect english speaking people to learn their language if they don't want to learn english. if it bothers them, don't talk to someone who can't speak [insert language here]. Difference here though, is that it is much harder to succeed in the US without speaking english, than it is for US-born people who don't speak other lauguages.

    I already learned a language other than the one I was born with, so you know, it's not that hard.

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    Perhaps the spoken dialects are different, but I can still read the signs at least.
    And one can still figure out what people are trying to say in other languages.

    The same people who want to force others to speak their languages, are complaining about the idea of having to learn the language of someone else. That's hypocrisy.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    And one can still figure out what people are trying to say in other languages.

    The same people who want to force others to speak their languages, are complaining about the idea of having to learn the language of someone else. That's hypocrisy.
    how is it hypocrisy? I already told you that I have learned a language other than my native one (aka, language of someone else).

    And also, I know this topic is specifically about South American immigrants, but lol, it's not easy to figure out non-latin-based languages like Japanese or Hindi if you don't speak it already.
    Last edited by spanishninja; 2017-11-09 at 02:44 AM.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by spanishninja View Post
    how is it hypocrisy? I already told you that I have already learned a language other than my native one (aka, language of someone else).
    Am I talking about you? Did I say you, specifically?

    Great, you learned someone else's language. Hopefully, you weren't forced to do it by some asshole.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Am I talking about you? Did I say you, specifically?

    Great, you learned someone else's language. Hopefully, you weren't forced to do it by some asshole.
    on message boards, quoting someone typically implies you are talking directly to them, so it was logical to believe that you were addressing me. My bad!

    And I wasn't forced to learn english by anybody. However, if I didn't learn english after coming to America, and was stuck working minimum wage jobs for the rest of my life, I also would have nobody to blame but myself for not bothering to learn it in the first place.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Cruor View Post
    By South America, I mean Mexico and down, but the title can only be so long. Take a look at this article: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/she...b7Kz&ocid=iehp

    The main problem I have is it says she has lived here 19 years and had to speak through an interpreter. I know it isn't true for 100% of them, but I feel the majority of immigrants (especially the illegal ones) from Central and South America have this resistance or just no care attitude toward learning English, which is the main language of the USA. I feel immigrants from India, China, Korea, Europe etc... pretty much EVERYWHERE but Spanish speaking countries south of Texas make a real effort to learn English, as they should.

    "I was expecting more empathy, more comprehension of all of the good that we contribute to the economy and to the culture here in this country,” Hernandez said, speaking through an interpreter."

    What culture? You mean trying to assimilate our country into yours by NOT accepting our culture and language? By constantly crying that you just don't get to be here for free?

    Honestly, I know I personally and I think the right as a whole would be a lot more sympathetic to immigrants from Mexico/South America if they made more of an effort to be Americans, instead of a Mexican/Nicaraguan/other Hispanic just living in America.

    Before you even start - It doesn't matter if "the official" language is not English. We all know its by far and away the main language. All leaders or anyone of importance in the country must have a strong grasp of English. Besides that, language links a people together, if we can't communicate its going to be very hard to get along and work together.
    kids in Sweden speak upwards of 5 languages by the time they finish high school. How is this a problem, almost all "illegal immigrants" from central and south america pay taxes thru tax ID this is a fact at least they contribute, the Chinese and others come here to reproduce and ask for child benefits. When you speak of "illegal immigrants" right away people think Mexican or Latino, the problem is that they are being demonized by our current culture, meanwhile theirs more illegals from asia but no one mentions them. food for thought i guess.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by spanishninja View Post
    on message boards, quoting someone typically implies you are talking directly to them, so it was logical to believe that you were addressing me. My bad!

    And I wasn't forced to learn english by anybody. However, if I didn't learn english after coming to America, and was stuck working minimum wage jobs for the rest of my life, I also would have nobody to blame but myself for not bothering to learn it in the first place.
    I was replying tou you, because I was speaking to you.

    Good for you, you weren't forced to learn the language. That's how it should be. Nobody is saying that choosing to avoid learning the local language doesn't make things more difficult. They are saying that someone shouldn't be forced to do it.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    None of the construction companies I know who build anything worth a shit are going to take someone with a 100% language barrier. Safety and quality both have a problem with that, and those are absolute currently.
    As for hard working... well, same as any other race/ethnicity/so forth, sweeping generalizations are fun, but also completely fucking stupid.
    Some make you wish you could clone them, some make you wonder how the hell they made it here.
    Welcome to reality.
    Here's the thing in Canada though: like many places, people are having less children. That's less bodies to tax. The gov wants more, thus immigration.
    If you hate immigrants/have a problem with them, push out taxables.. I mean babies.
    It's the old shut up or put out thing fo sho (lol)
    Want to make a statement/fight immigration rates? there it is, get your womb/wallet warmed up.
    really? because trumps "development company whos worth a shit" hired of bunch of polish illegals, under paid them and didnt tax them. don't know what world you live in.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I was replying tou you, because I was speaking to you.

    Good for you, you weren't forced to learn the language. That's how it should be. Nobody is saying that choosing to avoid learning the local language doesn't make things more difficult. They are saying that someone shouldn't be forced to do it.
    another thing to mention about english is that it's not only the most popular language in US in general, but also the most popular language for business globally. so by learning english you are not just "placating" to Americans, but also making yourself that much more likely to successfully work in many places of the world. Chinese is rising in popularity in business though, so who knows, maybe western people will end up doing what you described.

    Question for you: if an immigrant comes to America, chooses not to learn english because he's not "forced to", and ends up not making enough money to support their family because of lack of quality job options, is it fair for everybody else in society to foot the bill for his family's welfare even though they weren't the reason why he doesn't speak english?

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Mittens View Post
    There is quite the difference between that and being unable to communicate with the majority of the country. As I said, it severely limits their integration.
    there are over 60 million Spanish speaking citizens in the U.S per the last census, countries population is roughly 350 million. seeing as how there is no official language, it seems like the one not wanting to integrate is you by not learning Spanish.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by berdrek View Post
    there are over 60 million Spanish speaking citizens in the U.S per the last census, countries population is roughly 350 million. seeing as how there is no official language, it seems like the one not wanting to integrate is you by not learning Spanish.
    how's that again? integration typically does not involve the majority adjusting to the minority. It's the other way around, because that's a lot simpler to achieve. Also, I'm guessing that a majority of that 60 million also understand english.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by berdrek View Post
    there are over 60 million Spanish speaking citizens in the U.S per the last census, countries population is roughly 350 million. seeing as how there is no official language, it seems like the one not wanting to integrate is you by not learning Spanish.
    Si serás weon. Yo ya se hablar español es mi idioma materno.

    Anyway, not knowing English severely limits your opportunities, I don't think people can refute that.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by spanishninja View Post
    another thing to mention about english is that it's not only the most popular language in US in general, but also the most popular language for business globally. so by learning english you are not just "placating" to Americans, but also making yourself that much more likely to successfully work in many places of the world. Chinese is rising in popularity in business though, so who knows, maybe western people will end up doing what you described.

    Question for you: if an immigrant comes to America, chooses not to learn english because he's not "forced to", and ends up not making enough money to support their family because of lack of quality job options, is it fair for everybody else in society to foot the bill for his family's welfare even though they weren't the reason why he doesn't speak english?
    Good, it is beneficial to learn English, nobody is saying it's not. Of course, if someone doesn't want to learn English, who gives a shit? It's also beneficial to get a 4-year degree. The OP specifically whined about Latinos not learning English. He didn't mention Asians, Africans, or anyone else.

    When it comes to welfare, you are talking to the wrong guy. I don't support welfare for anyone, regardless of where they came from. I have no desire to pay for anyone's way, for whatever reason they chose to not succeed in life.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    No, the official language is any language you request.
    You cannot request the language. You can only request the translation from the official language.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Good, it is beneficial to learn English, nobody is saying it's not. Of course, if someone doesn't want to learn English, who gives a shit? It's also beneficial to get a 4-year degree. The OP specifically whined about Latinos not learning English. He didn't mention Asians, Africans, or anyone else.

    When it comes to welfare, you are talking to the wrong guy. I don't support welfare for anyone, regardless of where they came from. I have no desire to pay for anyone's way, for whatever reason they chose to not succeed in life.
    well, the welfare part is relevant because the language barrier is one huge factor why immigrants might not enter the middle class in this country, just like not going to college. it's easy to say you don't give a shit if everybody just works at mcdonalds for the rest of their lives, but ultimately it will affect your personal life.

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