[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[dribbles]

I'm genuinely torn between wanting to tell holier-than-thou dicks like Noradin to stick their EU up their arse and at the same time acknowledging that:

My better half was last week made redundant from her job (vaguely) in the construction industry. Exactly the same as in 2008. Her industry was the first to be hit by cost-cutting / uncertainty / etc.

This is happening. Now. Sterling has plummeted. Inflation is up. City of London is moving to the Continent. It is only going to get worse.

I'm not prepared to accept that the quality of my family's life has deteriorated because racist nan's desire to close our borders is beneficial to our 'sovereignty'.

This is my dilemma.

But seriously, Noradin, just fuck off.

Well I like to look for the positives in peoples posts. Just this topic has had nearly 30000 views, if only they were unique views but sadly not, nevermind. Even so I like to think as you suggest that every time the Noradins and their ilk here glorify the EU they help additional UK citizens convert to Brexitism.

Sorry to hear about your other half and it probably doesn't help to say but with the lowest rate of unemployment in 40 years that nowhere else in Europe is a better place for someone to be made redundant. They won't be unemployed long and the opportunities that exist here can be found nowhere else on this continent.

[Slant]

Well I like to look for the positives in peoples posts. Just this topic has had nearly 30000 views, if only they were unique views but sadly not, nevermind. Even so I like to think as you suggest that every time the Noradins and their ilk here glorify the EU they help additional UK citizens convert to Brexitism.

Sorry to hear about your other half and it probably doesn't help to say but with the lowest rate of unemployment in 40 years that nowhere else in Europe is a better place for someone to be made redundant. They won't be unemployed long and the opportunities that exist here can be found nowhere else on this continent.

The thing is, if you actually had the mental capacity to understand any of these posts, you would see that it isn't glorification of the EU as much as trying to make you understand that it's not the evil nazi empire you seem to think it is. Alas, your arguments fail in the simplest concepts, like understanding what sovereignty is. Like, for example, you kept on blabbering about how it's time to take UK's sovereignty back, but at the same time rant against the EU for not interfering in Catalonia. Make up your mind, man.

You're dishonest and obtuse. You don't give a shit about Brexit or no Brexit. You're just here to stir the pot. And the sad thing is that you're actually trying to convince people that a bullshit idea is golden.

Nigel probably isn't the target audience for you, because as he posted, he seems to be well aware of the repercussions. You, on the other hand, are not. Probably because your parents income still shields you from what we call "the real world". But you will find out eventually.

[Kronik85]

Nigel probably isn't the target audience for you, because as he posted, he seems to be well aware of the repercussions. You, on the other hand, are not. Probably because your parents income still shields you from what we call "the real world". But you will find out eventually.

No Nigel isn't dribbles target, it's you and the other arch europhiles because you fall for their bait every time. The saddest issue in this topic is that their isn't actually any Brits in it, we just drive by to have the odd vent like Helden and Nigel about the absurdity of it like I'am now. The people responsible for bumping the thread are 2 troll accounts and europeans.

[dribbles]

The thing is, if you actually had the mental capacity to understand any of these posts, you would see that it isn't glorification of the EU as much as trying to make you understand that it's not the evil nazi empire you seem to think it is. Alas, your arguments fail in the simplest concepts, like understanding what sovereignty is. Like, for example, you kept on blabbering about how it's time to take UK's sovereignty back, but at the same time rant against the EU for not interfering in Catalonia. Make up your mind, man.

You're dishonest and obtuse. You don't give a shit about Brexit or no Brexit. You're just here to stir the pot. And the sad thing is that you're actually trying to convince people that a bullshit idea is golden.

Nigel probably isn't the target audience for you, because as he posted, he seems to be well aware of the repercussions. You, on the other hand, are not. Probably because your parents income still shields you from what we call "the real world". But you will find out eventually.

You know Slant I am disappointed in you, it has been such a long time since you brought your A game to the Brexit table debate, are you out of practice, got a bit stale, fed up of losing? It may or may not interest you to know that I have always privately scored posts in places such as this as to the likelihood of converting a remain voter to a leave vote. A +1 was a bit poor and a +10 very good, one voter potentially converted gets one point and so on if you see what I mean.

This rant above of yours I'd probably give a 2 whereas you used to be a consistent 10. Even your 17 trillion budget mistake, an error you never used to make btw, was only a 4 by my calculations. I do understand it gets harder as more and more people see the Brexit light and your target audience gets smaller, but seriously like I imagine your school report saying - you could and have done better.

I remember back in the day prior to the UK Brexit referendum even making your ignore list and how proudly you shouted that from the forum rooftops, I gave you a big Brucie bonus for that and in some small way took great comfort in how you unknowingly were helping the Brexit side. You see what we have in common? You and I are working for the exact same thing. Except until now you just didn't know it.

I suppose it doesn't matter so much as the inevitable no deal Brexit will happen but even so in closing I thank you and your gang of followers here for all your help and no doubt I can count on your continued support.

Without Europeans like you Brexit would never have happened.

[Slant]

No Nigel isn't dribbles target, it's you and the other arch europhiles because you fall for their bait every time. The saddest issue in this topic is that their isn't actually any Brits in it, we just drive by to have the odd vent like Helden and Nigel about the absurdity of it like I'am now. The people responsible for bumping the thread are 2 troll accounts and europeans.

We're just here to remind everyone what a fool dribbles is, really. Personally, it motivates me to keep a bit more informed. Although, to stay ahead of dribbles, it doesn't take much more than reading headlines these days. So that purpose isn't really challenged by many on here by now. The guys that actually had interesting arguments for Brexit have long gone with the tail between their legs and are now licking their wounds.

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You know Slant I am disappointed in you, it has been such a long time since you brought your A game to the Brexit table debate, are you out of practice, got a bit stale, fed up of losing? It may or may not interest you to know that I have always privately scored posts in places such as this as to the likelihood of converting a remain voter to a leave vote. A +1 was a bit poor and a +10 very good, one voter potentially converted gets one point and so on if you see what I mean.

This rant above of yours I'd probably give a 2 whereas you used to be a consistent 10. Even your 17 trillion budget mistake, an error you never used to make btw, was only a 4 by my calculations. I do understand it gets harder as more and more people see the Brexit light and your target audience gets smaller, but seriously like I imagine your school report saying - you could and have done better.

I remember back in the day prior to the UK Brexit referendum even making your ignore list and how proudly you shouted that from the forum rooftops, I gave you a big Brucie bonus for that and in some small way took great comfort in how you unknowingly were helping the Brexit side. You see what we have in common? You and I are working for the exact same thing. Except until now you just didn't know it.

I suppose it doesn't matter so much as the inevitable no deal Brexit will happen but even so in closing I thank you and your gang of followers here for all your help and no doubt I can count on your continued support.

Without Europeans like you Brexit would never have happened.

Not sure what that ramble is meant to express. But let me agree with you here, no deal is becoming more likely every week. But unlike you, I actually like Britain and don't want to see a civilised nation suffer pointlessly. Which will happen. As for arguing... I can only go as far as I'm pushed, to be fair. And you have no strength left in you. Your claims get more ridiculous with every post. It's hard to muster up the motivation to look anything up to present you with any sources when I know you'll just... go into full bullshit mode and simply claim the opposite out of spite. That's not a discussion, that's you trying to get a rise out of me.

You're not doing very well on that front, mate. Hence my half ass posting, because really that's all it takes to invalidate anything you say. I'm not for Brexit. Nor do I presume that whatever I say actually has any influence on domestic British voters. But hey, it's cute that you try to suck up to me like that. Just don't overdo it.

[Kiri]

No Nigel isn't dribbles target, it's you and the other arch europhiles because you fall for their bait every time. The saddest issue in this topic is that their isn't actually any Brits in it, we just drive by to have the odd vent like Helden and Nigel about the absurdity of it like I'am now. The people responsible for bumping the thread are 2 troll accounts and europeans.

What exactly makes someone an arch europhile though? I mean some guys in here are heavily into it, yes, but there are moderates here as well who just tend to discuss Brexit. The problem, to me, seems to be that the radicals on either side get all the attention, which makes honest discussion all but impossible.

[Kronik85]

We're just here to remind everyone what a fool dribbles is, really. Personally, it motivates me to keep a bit more informed. Although, to stay ahead of dribbles, it doesn't take much more than reading headlines these days. So that purpose isn't really challenged by many on here by now. The guys that actually had interesting arguments for Brexit have long gone with the tail between their legs and are now licking their wounds.

The main trouble with dribbles is that if these posts do represent the opinions of an actual human being then they would be more of an intellectual if they were a persona or troll account. That's how low the bait and posts have gotten, you don't have to remind anyone of this. At this stage you've become an enabler because you give them the impression someone cares enough to respond to this drivel which is probably the only reason they bother to post in the first place.

@Kiri @Prince Oberyn Martell Being a Europhile isn't a bad thing, it simply means someone who admires or is in favour of participation in the European Union. I don't think it's a disrespect to Slant to label them as such and I'd be surprised if they refuted it.

[Mittens]

But think of all the chlorinated chicken we'll get to enjoy!

Fear of chlorinated washed chicken is silly.

[Kronik85]

Dribbles and Floopa are just hurting the brexit cause tbh. I'd welcome someone with intelligent and reasoned arguments. Instead all we get is some trollish remarks which anyone with a bit of a brain can see through. I honestly think dribbles might just be one of those russian fake news posters who try to cause division within western society.

Something something sovereignty? It did kill off UKIP though and I must confess I'm not a huge fan of "ever closer political union". I'm grateful to the European project in having stopped us trying to kill each other but I'm not enthused about a European Super State. Oddly the only way to stop that was to remain in the EU and to keep abusing our veto powers so I can't think of any particularly strong argument as to why Brexit makes sense from any angle. If you wanted the EU to fail then we just lost our best tool to see that happen.

[Deleted]

The situation at the moment seems to be that the government thinks trade talks will kick off in december but the EU think this is unlikely.
May has been backtracking since Florence and the UK just reneged of guarentees it made for citizens rights which is really bad.
If May is unwilling to make further commitments reguarding money, the EU will simply not trigger trade talks in decemeber. The UK knows all this and are in denial, so if they don't act the next chance to make a deal is in March, leaving 7 months to make a deal.
The EU are now making impact assesments for how a no deal effects them, so they are expecting May to turn to the mental Brexit utopians.
The incompetence from the UK is staggering, they either don't seem to understand how it works or are putting the national interest behind political posturing.
The Brexiteers in this thread seem to suffer the same and don't understand what no deal means.

[Shadowmelded]

Fear of chlorinated washed chicken is silly.

Oh it's not the chicken itself that's problematic. It's the conditions that necessitate the chlorination in the first place.

[Mormolyce]

The situation at the moment seems to be that the government thinks trade talks will kick off in december but the EU think this is unlikely.
May has been backtracking since Florence and the UK just reneged of guarentees it made for citizens rights which is really bad.
If May is unwilling to make further commitments reguarding money, the EU will simply not trigger trade talks in decemeber. The UK knows all this and are in denial, so if they don't act the next chance to make a deal is in March, leaving 7 months to make a deal.
The EU are now making impact assesments for how a no deal effects them, so they are expecting May to turn to the mental Brexit utopians.
The incompetence from the UK is staggering, they either don't seem to understand how it works or are putting the national interest behind political posturing.
The Brexiteers in this thread seem to suffer the same and don't understand what no deal means.

They're too busy readying their French getaway houses kek.

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Wait wait my eurochums, I have an idea for an update to that battlebus. If the EU budget is = to 17 trillion then the UK contribution to that is almost 3 trillion, I am happy to accept these figures if you are happy to replace the 350million a week to the NHS for 57billion a week as in UK contributions to the EU.

Whadya say?

Counter offer: you get your Brexit the moment you send that 350 million per week to the NHS.

Don't hold your breath ahahaha.

[Slant]

The main trouble with dribbles is that if these posts do represent the opinions of an actual human being then they would be more of an intellectual if they were a persona or troll account. That's how low the bait and posts have gotten, you don't have to remind anyone of this. At this stage you've become an enabler because you give them the impression someone cares enough to respond to this drivel which is probably the only reason they bother to post in the first place.

@Kiri @Prince Oberyn Martell Being a Europhile isn't a bad thing, it simply means someone who admires or is in favour of participation in the European Union. I don't think it's a disrespect to Slant to label them as such and I'd be surprised if they refuted it.

I don't refute being a Europhile. I've often enough taken a clear stance on the EU. What I do disagree with, though, is that it could even be used as an insult or that it implies blind obedience. What doesn't come through in these threads is that I do have different opinions than the EU on how Europe should be run.

I'm only an enabler of keeping pretty much the most important issue in Europe alive in a discussion. Every day we get new articles that can be discussed. It's hardly my fault that dribbles is lagging behind in current politics by... oh, 10 years or so and refuses to get with the picture. And it tickles my fancy to degrade him a little, simply because he begs for it so much. I do hate to disappoint.

[Mormolyce]

Personally, I'm an arch urophile.

[Kallisto]

Something something sovereignty? It did kill off UKIP though and I must confess I'm not a huge fan of "ever closer political union". I'm grateful to the European project in having stopped us trying to kill each other but I'm not enthused about a European Super State. Oddly the only way to stop that was to remain in the EU and to keep abusing our veto powers so I can't think of any particularly strong argument as to why Brexit makes sense from any angle. If you wanted the EU to fail then we just lost our best tool to see that happen.

But what is wrong with a European super state that will be Democratic in nature (since if it isn't it would be fractured within a week). Big countries are always better than amsll ones when they have similar standards by the virtue of having a larger populace giving you the strength to get better deals on the internationlal market.

[Mayhem]

Ok... and you think Brexit was an intelligent decision? You think Leave played to people's logic or to their fears? Go on...

I don't see how that is related to the analogy we're talking about. To answer your question, no it wasn't and both leave and remain did a poor job of explaining what leaving actually means.

[Deleted]

But what is wrong with a European super state that will be Democratic in nature (since if it isn't it would be fractured within a week). Big countries are always better than amsll ones when they have similar standards by the virtue of having a larger populace giving you the strength to get better deals on the internationlal market.

The idea of a European super state has always appealed to me, but the idea of it growing out of what we currently have in the EU just seems a bit sad tbh.

If people want it, they should vote for it, they shouldn't just have it slowly forced on them which is it seems like the EU is currently trying to do.

[Kronik85]

I don't refute being a Europhile. I've often enough taken a clear stance on the EU. What I do disagree with, though, is that it could even be used as an insult or that it implies blind obedience. What doesn't come through in these threads is that I do have different opinions than the EU on how Europe should be run.

I'm only an enabler of keeping pretty much the most important issue in Europe alive in a discussion. Every day we get new articles that can be discussed. It's hardly my fault that dribbles is lagging behind in current politics by... oh, 10 years or so and refuses to get with the picture. And it tickles my fancy to degrade him a little, simply because he begs for it so much. I do hate to disappoint.

I wouldn't imagine anyone thinks the EU is perfectly run as is so I wouldn't worry about that perception lol. As to "new articles that can be discussed" though.....

Seems as though progress hasn't moved at all since the start of the negotiation and this is the easy shit too. Surely all it takes reciprocity in regard to EU citizens and UK citizens rights will be whilst in the others state post Brexit and jobs a good'en. As to the divorce bill just pick a fucking number! It's honestly mind boggling. Either way in your interactions with dribbles, you do you.

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Personally, I'm an arch urophile.

I've no idea if this is a typo or a pun of some description that is sailing over my head. :thinking

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But what is wrong with a European super state that will be Democratic in nature (since if it isn't it would be fractured within a week). Big countries are always better than amsll ones when they have similar standards by the virtue of having a larger populace giving you the strength to get better deals on the internationlal market.

On a macro level it works fine and it's where the EU is at now. It's essentially a moral arbiter setting out what we could describe as European Values and making sure it's member states stick to them, I'm all for that. I'm not sure what positives can come from moving more and more power to Brussels when I'm already ignored by politicians in London.

You also have to remember that to us Brits we are only European in the sense that our island happens to be near Europe and we are happy being British. We aren't trying to escape the sins of the past be it Nazism and capitulation with it or the Russian yoke by subsuming ourselves into a European hegemony.

[Mayhem]

Whatever. The reason they left is exactly this. A bunch of idiots in Belgium having meetings about meeting to discuss the meeting meeting on meetings. What a bureaucratic bunch of nonsense. It's like you looked at the US, and said, "Give us double the bad and none of the good, that you get from being so large."

Oh boy. Don't you at least sometimes want to be right on things? The EU runs on a budget half of what Austrias Government is spending. And the Administrative costs are only 6% of that already small budget and you think that is bureaucratic nonsense?

[Noradin]

I'm genuinely torn between wanting to tell holier-than-thou dicks like Noradin to stick their EU up their arse and at the same time acknowledging that:

My better half was last week made redundant from her job (vaguely) in the construction industry. Exactly the same as in 2008. Her industry was the first to be hit by cost-cutting / uncertainty / etc.

This is happening. Now. Sterling has plummeted. Inflation is up. City of London is moving to the Continent. It is only going to get worse.

I'm not prepared to accept that the quality of my family's life has deteriorated because racist nan's desire to close our borders is beneficial to our 'sovereignty'.

This is my dilemma.

But seriously, Noradin, just fuck off.

Before you make such claims about other posters kindly read their posts so you know what you are talking about, thank you.

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No Nigel isn't dribbles target, it's you and the other arch europhiles because you fall for their bait every time. The saddest issue in this topic is that their isn't actually any Brits in it, we just drive by to have the odd vent like Helden and Nigel about the absurdity of it like I'am now. The people responsible for bumping the thread are 2 troll accounts and europeans.

If you think we are "arch europhiles" then you didn't read our posts.
(Assuming you mean the "arch europhile" to imply one can see no fault in the EU, because otherwise why chose that specific wording as an insult?

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The idea of a European super state has always appealed to me, but the idea of it growing out of what we currently have in the EU just seems a bit sad tbh.

If people want it, they should vote for it, they shouldn't just have it slowly forced on them which is it seems like the EU is currently trying to do.

Yes, that is certainly a reasonable stance to take. I agree.

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Seems as though progress hasn't moved at all since the start of the negotiation and this is the easy shit too. Surely all it takes reciprocity in regard to EU citizens and UK citizens rights will be whilst in the others state post Brexit and jobs a good'en. As to the divorce bill just pick a fucking number! It's honestly mind boggling. Either way in your interactions with dribbles, you do you.

The problem with the "bill" is that the EU cannot just "pick a number" due to the way it is set up. It has to show where that number came from, because it is not a "bill" for the process of leaving, but the sum of all the things the UK has already agreed to pay for in the future. Such as pensions for officials who worked for all member states of the EU. It was easy to just say "we will pay them when they need it" when nobody wanted to leave, but now we have to estimate how much that will cost in the future.