Antorus Raid Release Schedule

[Aliven]

I'm saying that you were right - Blizzard employee said what you said he said (hue). I'm not dismissing the fact what he said. I'm saying he's talking out of his ass in my opinion.

Have you ever met anyone who plays the game for LFR?
I've met tons of people who play for mythic raids.

And yes, it's anecdotal evidence again, but it builds my perspective on the game.

Oh and are we ignoring the titanforging fact? Or are you saying you can't drop 920+ ilvl items from LFR? Because you can.

Each time a titanforge item would drop for me from LFR i would dedicate it to you, my easily offended friend

[Cavox]

And on the transfer note. Which other MMOs let you transfer for free out of curiosity? ESO uses Megaserver so there isn't a transfer, FF14 costs £12, GW2 is paid and the only free one I know of is Rift but well that game is meh. I'm trying to think of other games but I can't off the top of my head and Rift is the only one that comes to mind.

I'm glad there's some common ground we agree on.

I count MMOs which use megaservers, because it's Blizzard choice to use the old server technology (even though they are improving the tech with zoning and sharding) and they force the playerbase to pay for.

Black Desert Online also comes to mind.

[Eleccybubb]

I'm glad there's some common ground we agree on.

I count MMOs which use megaservers, because it's Blizzard choice to use the old server technology (even though they are improving the tech with zoning and sharding) and they force the playerbase to pay for.

Black Desert Online also comes to mind.

The thing is I'd rather have zoning and sharding than a Megaserver. However they seriously need to wake the hell up with Connected Realms. Merging low pops to low pops isn't going to work anymore. Merge low pop PvE ones with Draenor or Silvermoon EU for example and the same for PvP.

Sharding did it's job and resolved the WoD fiasco with Legion and most issues in general for once.

Only Megaserver MMO I don't count is ESO. Because it is just one server. There isn't named servers so you can't exactly transfer. Although Megaservers like that are beautiful because you don't have to.

[kamuimac]

I'm saying that you were right - Blizzard employee said what you said he said (hue). I'm not dismissing the fact what he said. I'm saying he's talking out of his ass in my opinion.

Have you ever met anyone who plays the game for LFR?
I've met tons of people who play for mythic raids.

And yes, it's anecdotal evidence again, but it builds my perspective on the game.

Oh and are we ignoring the titanforging fact? Or are you saying you can't drop 920+ ilvl items from LFR? Because you can.

and ? world bosses drop free 930 loot and nobody is whining about it - by now if you farmed them you should have at least 4-5 pieces from them - by the time it lands it should be 8+ pieces - yet somehow thats ok

nobody will do lfr for loot besides very fresh alts.

[Prokne]

You need motivation to raid, LFR is the most demotivating tool I've ever seen. TBC, vanilla and WotLK were great, because seeing a boss was a reward in itself, not a themepark raid you can literally AFK through.
Is it a coincidence that LFR came out at the same time WoW's population started a dive which hasn't stopped since (Cata)? I think not!

LFR came out in Cata because they killed the normal 10 man raiding that casual players did. Those players quit because there was nothing to do. It also killed a lot of 25 man raids because it was easier to get enough people for 10man which gave the same gear. There were almost no pugs compared to Wrath. People who liked 25 man raids (like me) quit. So raid participation was down and raid development could not be justified without getting people back into raiding. The only real mistake is that they made it too easy. It should have been just slightly less difficult and queuable, sort of like the difference between the current normal and heroic.

[Cavox]

The only real mistake is that they made it too easy. It should have been just slightly less difficult and queuable, sort of like the difference between the current normal and heroic.

In that case it can be just normal diffculty raids you can queue as you do for LFR now. Give people a chance to fail. It's a reason to get better at the game.

[Bighammerbear]

OH BOY WHERE DO I START

It's steadily killing raiding guilds since the day it was created. I've personally known a lot of players who came back to WoW, leveled up to [max_level] and did an LFR or two, then got bored and quit again.

You need motivation to raid, LFR is the most demotivating tool I've ever seen. TBC, vanilla and WotLK were great, because seeing a boss was a reward in itself, not a themepark raid you can literally AFK through.
Is it a coincidence that LFR came out at the same time WoW's population started a dive which hasn't stopped since (Cata)? I think not!

And of course the statistics will show that people attend LFR raids. Who wouldn't if there's a chance for legendary items, a way to do without ANY effort your weekly raid quests and get some low level tier sets? The problem is that the "here's a raid and 10 difficulty levels - enjoy!" is a shitty approach, which has been discouraging people who might've been real riders if given a chance and some challenge.
Now WoW became a single-player MMO where you queue do to dungeons, queue to do raids, queue to do pvp not moving an inch from [your_faction's_capital]. But that's another story for another time.

Using your logic, no one ever played sports professionally, because they could go down the park and play and with some friends. No one ever painted a masterpiece, because they threw some paint as a child on paper.

If a persons motivation to play this game is utterly destroyed by the fact they can do something easily, then they weren't that motivated to being with.

Also, look again at the facts on Cata. LFR came out at the end of cata, long after the losses had truly set in. This was the infamous expansion, where ghost crawler told everyone 'git gud'. Turns out that many, many people were not that interested in wiping in a video game over and over. MoP actually held steady for a substantial portion of time.

[Cavox]

Also, look again at the facts on Cata. LFR came out at the end of cata, long after the losses had truly set in. This was the infamous expansion, where ghost crawler told everyone 'git gud'. Turns out that many, many people were not that interested in wiping in a video game over and over.

Except that's wrong.
Post-WotLK Blizzard was never pro-difficulty. Even Cata dungeons were nerfed to the ground after 2 weeks since release, because people came crying about it. I have to ask for source about that "git-gud" attitude, because I don't remember Ghostcrawler saying anything even remotely like that. That was a lot of years ago though, so I might've forgotten.

Also LFR was implemented with Dragon Soul, so in the Cata timeline it was pretty much in the middle of expansion.

Also I don't get your sports analogy. You have to use food ones, these are always gold.

[Noxina]

That's not "all I enjoy", I enjoy leveling, and I enjoy doing new content. It's not like there's going to be a bevy of new content otherwise coming out. If there was, I'd resub. I resubbed when the new hub and dungeon came out too. Then I let it lapse once I finished the storylines and did the dungeon.

That's what I do. I sub when there's new content added, then I stop subbing once I've finished it to a level in which I'm happy with. If there was no LFR, I'd just resub long enough to do new dungeons and new hubs/storylines, then lapse until there's more.

(I have no interest in PVP)

Like, if I resubbed right now, all I'd have to do is repeating content I've already done or doing content, like mythics, which I don't want to do.

Oh, or level alts, which Legion turned me off of doing until recently. I've leveled a few (I think I have 3 or 4 at 110, though I do have a character of every class at at least 100). Frankly, that's just not mega appealing either.

Not to come off as rude, but are you sure an MMO like WoW is the right game/genre for you? You seem more like and RPG kind of player?
MMOs are more about the grind to become powerfull than the story, and the story is more a good bonus. That’s atleast how I see it
In the end though, you do yours, and I do my thing.

[Deleted]

Yes, and...?


Which only proves Blizzard is full of stupid ideas in their sleeves. Along with legendaries it's a retarded mechanic. I get their arguments for "it gives people a reason to do dungeons and farm raids". What I'm saying that's stupid as hell. If only it was like max +5 ilvls and/or a socket gem that would be ENOUGH, but no, let's go to the extreme.
I'm a mythic raider - my guild farms 4 mythic ToS bosses (people quit the game, so our progress stopped and we can't transfer, because Blizzard wants us to pay real money for something other games have for free). Do you know how I feel when I see some shitter, who's never seen an inside a mythic ToS running around with a higher ilvl than me, because he was "lucky"? It feels like "why should I even bother".

Not to mention I can't seriously tank with my warrior, because I was "unlucky" enough not to drop the bracers yet.

Blizzard is full of retarded ideas. You remember garrisons and how they DESTROYED the economy? Are you enjoying your crafting professions, like LW, BS and Tailoring? Oh boy do I.

I hope you've really met people for play FOR LFR and aren't just mistaking them with people who do LFR for the reasons I've stated before.

I don't think I've read such drivel.

What exactly does it take away from your experience if someone, who can't or doesn't want to raid mythic, get's a TF item? Please, tell me because I'm highly intrigued how this directly affects you personally.

Your attitude towards Blizzard as a whole is sad as hell, and if I didn't know any better I'd recommend that you step away from the game for a few months because it seems to be affecting you quite deeply with the bile that you have spewed in this one post.

Face it, this game is RNG at it's absolute best. And if RNG is what is getting you down, go cancel your sub and get outside. Because you know what's not RNG? Having actual fun.

[Stormykitten]

The LFR discussion feels like the one on piracy. It's allegedly a bad thing for raiding guilds, and probably it can steal a player here and there, but there is absolutely no proof that everybody that is "a lost raider" would actually raid at all if LFR was removed.

Personally, I just don't have great interest in large scale raids, I've done them now and then but I like to keep it to learning the story from them as I love that. I have no interest in raid loot itemlevels or so, but I do enjoy looking for fashion. I've always been more a 1-5 player person, it feels more entertaining to me in that environment as it typically uses more of each class and each player's actions counts more. Also, I find in general the whole addoncraft to be pretty tiresome. So for me, I'll wait for LFR to do it for story. It's kinda strange to me how long it takes to come out, since Normal mode tends to be so easy as well, but...

[Rylalai]

I don't think I've read such drivel.

What exactly does it take away from your experience if someone, who can't or doesn't want to raid mythic, get's a TF item? Please, tell me because I'm highly intrigued how this directly affects you personally.

Your attitude towards Blizzard as a whole is sad as hell, and if I didn't know any better I'd recommend that you step away from the game for a few months because it seems to be affecting you quite deeply with the bile that you have spewed in this one post.

Face it, this game is RNG at it's absolute best. And if RNG is what is getting you down, go cancel your sub and get outside. Because you know what's not RNG? Having actual fun.

Understanding his position is actually pretty easy. He does the hardest content of a game, so he wants the best rewards for it. Seeing someone else having even better rewards from doing basic content like dungeons or LFR or simple world quests gives him the feeling, there's no point in doing the hardest content since its rewards are not the best. I get his mentality to an extent, it's the need(fun) to compete with others and to surmount them on a certain level. Look for iLevel as a sort of gold medal for his achievement of advancing on mythic mode.

Every player has different views of WoW and reasons why he plays the game. His reason is as valid as yours. And to him, mythic raiding and the competitive aspect of it is his source of fun in the game. For you, it might be something different. But nonetheless, both sources of fun are valid.

Actually I agree with his point of hating titanforging. It's a bad system since basically only people doing mythic content (raids and/or high M+ dungeon content) have the need for items with such high item levels. But that's a discussion I'd like to have with the team at Blizzard who made the decision of implementing the titanforge system in the first place.

Edit. And nope, I don't do mythic raiding. :-)

[Aekero]

I play for lfr... or specifically, lfr is the raid I'm most likely going to be in due to various constraints. Now, I actually don't raid that much either, but I look at it as a way to progress my character/storyline a bit. It's a bummer that it's almost two full months for lfr to come out fully, but tbh it just means I'll resub in January, not a big deal.

[Deleted]

Understanding his position is actually pretty easy. He does the hardest content of a game, so he wants the best rewards for it. Seeing someone else having even better rewards from doing basic content like dungeons or LFR or simple world quests gives him the feeling, there's no point in doing the hardest content since its rewards are not the best. I get his mentality to an extent, it's the need(fun) to compete with others and to surmount them on a certain level. Look for iLevel as a sort of gold medal for his achievement of advancing on mythic mode.

Every player has different views of WoW and reasons why he plays the game. His reason is as valid as yours. And to him, mythic raiding and the competitive aspect of it is his source of fun in the game. For you, it might be something different. But nonetheless, both sources of fun are valid.

Actually I agree with his point of hating titanforging. It's a bad system since basically only people doing mythic content (raids and/or high M+ dungeon content) have the need for items with such high item levels. But that's a discussion I'd like to have with the team at Blizzard who made the decision of implementing the titanforge system in the first place.

Edit. And nope, I don't do mythic raiding. :-)

I`m not a mythic raider either, but I agree with him and with you..titanforging is a cancer (and I have a bunch on my main...940/937 ilvl as hc raider and I`m inactive since 1,5 months..inc a 955 gloves from hc ToS...)

[Deleted]

Who plays LFR seriously?
I wish they'd remove it permanently, so these "raiders" have to actually go and do normals, which are piss-easy to begin with, but can't just afk bosses.

So in other words you want ALL raids removed cause that is what happens when lfr is gone cause people doing lfr > people doing normal + heroic + mythic together.

[Otimus]

Not to come off as rude, but are you sure an MMO like WoW is the right game/genre for you? You seem more like and RPG kind of player?
MMOs are more about the grind to become powerfull than the story, and the story is more a good bonus. That’s atleast how I see it
In the end though, you do yours, and I do my thing.

I've been playing WoW since 2006 or so. I enjoy it for what I get out of it.

That being said, if Blizzard hadn't made platitudes for people like me, I'd probably only resub at the start and end of expansions.

and actually, character growth is the number one reason why I do play it. I just get bored when I can't grow my character in any meaningful way that doesn't require stringent grouping or whatever.

I actually like grinding if I get something out of it

[Laerrus]

Blizzard has maintained contact with Nostralius and are considering involving some of their team in the process.

Excellent idea. Those folks seemed very passionate about providing as close to a Vanilla experience as possible. I'd recommend hiring some of them if they are interested.

[Deleted]

OH BOY WHERE DO I START

It's steadily killing raiding guilds since the day it was created. I've personally known a lot of players who came back to WoW, leveled up to [max_level] and did an LFR or two, then got bored and quit again.

You need motivation to raid, LFR is the most demotivating tool I've ever seen. TBC, vanilla and WotLK were great, because seeing a boss was a reward in itself, not a themepark raid you can literally AFK through.
Is it a coincidence that LFR came out at the same time WoW's population started a dive which hasn't stopped since (Cata)? I think not!

And of course the statistics will show that people attend LFR raids. Who wouldn't if there's a chance for legendary items, a way to do without ANY effort your weekly raid quests and get some low level tier sets? The problem is that the "here's a raid and 10 difficulty levels - enjoy!" is a shitty approach, which has been discouraging people who might've been real riders if given a chance and some challenge.
Now WoW became a single-player MMO where you queue do to dungeons, queue to do raids, queue to do pvp not moving an inch from [your_faction's_capital]. But that's another story for another time.

Do you raid above normal difficulties? I'm just curious what types of players actually acknowledge the existence of LFR (apart from actual LFR-raiders)

[Jastall]

OH BOY WHERE DO I START

It's steadily killing raiding guilds since the day it was created. I've personally known a lot of players who came back to WoW, leveled up to [max_level] and did an LFR or two, then got bored and quit again.

You need motivation to raid, LFR is the most demotivating tool I've ever seen. TBC, vanilla and WotLK were great, because seeing a boss was a reward in itself, not a themepark raid you can literally AFK through.
Is it a coincidence that LFR came out at the same time WoW's population started a dive which hasn't stopped since (Cata)? I think not!

And of course the statistics will show that people attend LFR raids. Who wouldn't if there's a chance for legendary items, a way to do without ANY effort your weekly raid quests and get some low level tier sets? The problem is that the "here's a raid and 10 difficulty levels - enjoy!" is a shitty approach, which has been discouraging people who might've been real riders if given a chance and some challenge.
Now WoW became a single-player MMO where you queue do to dungeons, queue to do raids, queue to do pvp not moving an inch from [your_faction's_capital]. But that's another story for another time.

Ha, if anything LFR stopped Cata's bleeding. The xpack was already losing people at a rate only matched by WoD, for several reasons, but the biggest one was probably trying to make the game hardcore again after Wrath (such as with difficult Heroics and 10m raiding) so that casual players crashed and burned. If you follow a graph of Cata's lifetime, 4.3 is the patch that slowed the sub descent despite releasing along an infamously terrible raid.

LFR players are their own thing. Before, they just didn't raid at all. With LFR they see the content. Blizzard try to rid themselves of LFR, by nerfing its rewards to the ground in WoD in the hopes of pushing people into Normal. It did not work at all because LFR-only players do not want the pressure of an organized raid setting.

I find LFR hate to be absurd. I'm a Mythic raider and it barely affects me at all. Let others have their fun.

[Deleted]

Also LFR was implemented with Dragon Soul, so in the Cata timeline it was pretty much at the END of expansion.

fixed your flaw there.