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  1. #21
    On private servers they've been using the same old 2006 addons for years with a few new ones being made like Questie for example. I don't think these people realize what kind of retarded addons are gonna be made if nothing changes once vanilla becomes mainstream.

    Did you like AVR that was broken by Blizzard in Wrath? Good that will be reintroduced.
    Gearscore, DBM, WeakAuras, rotation bots, heal bots, quest helpers, LFG addons, any addon you can this of will be made.

  2. #22
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeoos View Post
    Well, Wotlk didn't have the item level either, and that didn't stop them from making gear score.
    Item level has always been on gear. Before WLK it was just hidden without AddOns. I've seen item levels on gear since TBC because of the AddOns I used.
    Last edited by Lahis; 2017-11-09 at 10:19 AM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by HavelTheRock View Post
    Gear wasn't so linear in Vanilla. Often times dungeon gear from 50-60 was better itemized than raid drops. Hunters used the axe from DM way into BWL and Prot Warriors who didn't get lucky in MC for a shield were using a UBRS drop. It's not like now where there are 150 items for every slot that fill every item level from 800 to 940. There's not much need for item levels to be shown or paid attention to, the required level to equip is usually enough to know the gear is good enough for what you're doing.

    There were also some 40+ epic leather gloves with +weapon skill stat that was best in slot for warriors for the whole ezpac if remember correctly... even in tbc it was very very good until blizzard changed it..
    The trick of selling a FFA-PvP MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    There were also some 40+ epic leather gloves with +weapon skill stat that was best in slot for warriors for the whole ezpac if remember correctly... even in tbc it was very very good until blizzard changed it..
    Weapon skill on several items or racials, maybe even a combination of both reduced or removed glancing hits from your attack table on boss encounters, resulting in an impressive increase in your overall damage output. Like a human warrior with Obsidian Edged Blade (5+11 weapon mastery) could go to zero glancing hits and even use better plate gloves
    Or look at the crafted epic gear, there was literally no wet warrior dream without a Lionheart Helm in it


    Itemlevel was not really a great indicator an mostly, you couldn't move up fast anyway by the fact 1-5 items (widely depends on certain bosses or raids) on a single fight dropped for 40 people.
    Highest dropping world drop was Teebu's Blazing Longsword, with ilvl 65. Quel'Serrar from the Questline was ilvl 65, Thunderfury/Sulfuras 80, Atiesh 90 and several Sapphiron/Kel'Thuzad drops ranging from 90-92.
    That's it, nothing higher besides the temporary weapon from the Atiesh Quest.
    And if you got a legendary weapon, you ain't gonna trade if for an epic in Naxx, except maybe Sulfuras. But Atiesh & Thunderfury beat at the stuff including ilvl 92.

    Tier Sets:
    Dungeon 1: 57-63 (rare)
    Dungeon 2: 60-66 (epic ilvl 60, rare pieces 65-66
    Tier 1: 66 (epic)
    Tier 2: 76 (epic)
    Tier 2.5: 78-88 (epic)
    Tier 3: 88 (epic)


    Some funny things are the scaling of the loot from the start of a raid until it's end.
    Let's take Temple of Ahn'Qiraj (40 players) as an example:
    - 1st boss starts with 73, but has one shiny item with 75.
    - 2nd boss drops only 76, but the weapon quest offers 79 rewards.
    - 3rd boss drops 77 and again 79 quest weapons.
    - 4th boss rops 78 including 78 quest items for sets.
    - 5th boss has 81 as regular and 79 (weapon) or 81 (armor) quest items.
    - Endboss has 84-88 as regular loot and 88 for quest set armor drops.
    - The 3 optional boss encounters are a total mixed bag of candy.

    If you consider that not every class always needed the highest ilvl set for every spec an the spread within a set, itemlevel would only tell you if the player is nearly fully epic and which tier of raid content he was.

    But most of those talking about gearscore haven't played by that time and an't imagine how it feels like to know like mostly any player of your faction on your server.
    You talk to them about progression or their raid compared to yours, see them in dungeons and even though they are from a different guild... you end up in a dungeon group with them quite often. There is no need to check someone, when you are quite familiar with him/her.
    Last edited by Lulane; 2017-11-09 at 10:30 AM.

  5. #25
    back in the day we had several raiders for MC that had a lot of blue gear its more about class knowledge and team work in classic them gearscore or items

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    dont you worry - they will have something better your spec will dictate which content you can do

    priest/pala ? healer , warrior ? tank/dps and besides those the only ones desired will be rogue and mage - maybe if you will be lucky as hunter/lock (but still you will be unwanted in pugs) rest will be next to nonexistent unless they will want to do their own groups.

    have fun playing "true" wow
    Your spec will determen if you can raid at all and your gear and attunments will dictate what raids you can do.

    All classes will be wanted in raids thou not all specs.
    The classes you say will be unwanted a nessesery for utilitu like kiting and curse/ss.

  7. #27
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    We had people clearing AQ with one or two items which were still level 58 blues because those items had 2% crit or a high amount of spell damage due to having 0 stamina.

    As some have already said, back in Vanilla item budgets were calculated based on ilvl & rarity, not just ilvl. Stats were all over the place too, and you had all manner of caps and such you had to reach and balance (things like hit cap, +weapon skills, mp5). You also had no penalty for wearing gear that wasn't your armor types (druids and paladins would frequently wear cloth, DPS warriors would wear leather, etc).

    I don't think something like Gearscore would have any meaning, and anyone who uses that to judge people in the Vanilla world would be a complete moron.
    Looking for laid-back casual raiding on EU?
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    On private servers they've been using the same old 2006 addons for years with a few new ones being made like Questie for example. I don't think these people realize what kind of retarded addons are gonna be made if nothing changes once vanilla becomes mainstream.

    Did you like AVR that was broken by Blizzard in Wrath? Good that will be reintroduced.
    Gearscore, DBM, WeakAuras, rotation bots, heal bots, quest helpers, LFG addons, any addon you can this of will be made.
    It really doesnt matter because skill was the most defined factor.. the best dps was the dps with the correct consumables, doing the most damage without getting aggro
    The trick of selling a FFA-PvP MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Erinhia View Post
    We had people clearing AQ with one or two items which were still level 58 blues because those items had 2% crit or a high amount of spell damage due to having 0 stamina.

    As some have already said, back in Vanilla item budgets were calculated based on ilvl & rarity, not just ilvl. Stats were all over the place too, and you had all manner of caps and such you had to reach and balance (things like hit cap, +weapon skills, mp5). You also had no penalty for wearing gear that wasn't your armor types (druids and paladins would frequently wear cloth, DPS warriors would wear leather, etc).

    I don't think something like Gearscore would have any meaning, and anyone who uses that to judge people in the Vanilla world would be a complete moron.
    Exactly, but maybe the biggest reason against gearscore is, that you know the other players you play with. You search them in a town an form a group and move to the dungeon together. It's most likely not like dungeon finder "once in a lifetime"-like but quite regularly that you play with the guys.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Lulane View Post
    Weapon skill on several items or racials, maybe even a combination of both reduced or removed glancing hits from your attack table on boss encounters, resulting in an impressive increase in your overall damage output. Like a human warrior with Obsidian Edged Blade (5+11 weapon mastery) could go to zero glancing hits and even use better plate gloves
    Or look at the crafted epic gear, there was literally no wet warrior dream without a Lionheart Helm in it


    Itemlevel was not really a great indicator an mostly, you couldn't move up fast anyway by the fact 1-5 items (widely depends on certain bosses or raids) on a single fight dropped for 40 people.
    Highest dropping world drop was Teebu's Blazing Longsword, with ilvl 65. Quel'Serrar from the Questline was ilvl 65, Thunderfury/Sulfuras 80, Atiesh 90 and several Sapphiron/Kel'Thuzad drops ranging from 90-92.
    That's it, nothing higher besides the temporary weapon from the Atiesh Quest.
    And if you got a legendary weapon, you ain't gonna trade if for an epic in Naxx, except maybe Sulfuras. But Atiesh & Thunderfury beat at the stuff including ilvl 92.

    Tier Sets:
    Dungeon 1: 57-63 (rare)
    Dungeon 2: 60-66 (epic ilvl 60, rare pieces 65-66
    Tier 1: 66 (epic)
    Tier 2: 76 (epic)
    Tier 2.5: 78-88 (epic)
    Tier 3: 88 (epic)


    Some funny things are the scaling of the loot from the start of a raid until it's end.
    Let's take Temple of Ahn'Qiraj (40 players) as an example:
    - 1st boss starts with 73, but has one shiny item with 75.
    - 2nd boss drops only 76, but the weapon quest offers 79 rewards.
    - 3rd boss drops 77 and again 79 quest weapons.
    - 4th boss rops 78 including 78 quest items for sets.
    - 5th boss has 81 as regular and 79 (weapon) or 81 (armor) quest items.
    - Endboss has 84-88 as regular loot and 88 for quest set armor drops.
    - The 3 optional boss encounters are a total mixed bag of candy.

    If you consider that not every class always needed the highest ilvl set for every spec an the spread within a set, itemlevel would only tell you if the player is nearly fully epic and which tier of raid content he was.

    But most of those talking about gearscore haven't played by that time and an't imagine how it feels like to know like mostly any player of your faction on your server.
    You talk to them about progression or their raid compared to yours, see them in dungeons and even though they are from a different guild... you end up in a dungeon group with them quite often. There is no need to check someone, when you are quite familiar with him/her.
    Totally agree
    The trick of selling a FFA-PvP MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Cellineth View Post
    The best gloves in the game for plate dps was some semi lowish level crafted epic gloves that had stamina, hit and expertise.
    expertise in vanilla? Dont you mean weapon skill?

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Cellineth View Post
    The best gloves in the game for plate dps was some semi lowish level crafted epic gloves that had stamina, hit and expertise.
    No such thing as expertise in Vanilla

    Quote Originally Posted by zeoos View Post
    Well, Wotlk didn't have the item level either, and that didn't stop them from making gear score.
    Wotlk did have the Ilvl shown in items.The average was tracked in WowProgress. I remember that pretty clearly
    Last edited by ReVnX; 2017-11-09 at 10:44 AM.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReVnX View Post
    No such thing as expertise in Vanilla
    It was weapon skill level <3

    And the helm with 2% crit !

  14. #34
    Resistances were more important than item levels.

    Regardless, the important thing is that we'll find a reason to look down on others, and a quantifiable way to justify that hate.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Gloupi View Post
    It was weapon skill level <3

    And the helm with 2% crit !
    That "Improves your change to get a critical strike with spell by 1% " text in items was glorious

    EDIT:

    Found a screenshot

    Last edited by ReVnX; 2017-11-09 at 10:55 AM.

  16. #36
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    Running on ilvl alone, or gearscore - both honestly can't be used good enough.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Guarantee some people are gonna create an addon for it with a Gearscore type addon. Although I bloody hope not.

    One thing of the old game that I'm glad died out. Although Raider.Io or whatever the hell it's called is slowly plaguing now.

    - - - Updated - - -



    And this.

    The hell use is 2k Gearscore if you have 0 Fire Resist in MC?
    Absolutely. Obviously there are a bunch of blues and lower level items that are absolutely brilliant for some classes too - if the original Edgemaster's Handguards are in there and weapon skill is still a thing then there's going to be a bunch of Fury Warriors wandering around with ilvl 49 mail gloves until they can kill C'Thun...

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    dont you worry - they will have something better your spec will dictate which content you can do

    priest/pala ? healer , warrior ? tank/dps and besides those the only ones desired will be rogue and mage - maybe if you will be lucky as hunter/lock (but still you will be unwanted in pugs) rest will be next to nonexistent unless they will want to do their own groups.

    have fun playing "true" wow
    What? MM hunter was very very good dps and also needed for pulls, kite and also remove enrage(Magmadar or Chromaggus).

    Also druid healer (combat res), shaman(totems), warlock for healthstones and curse of elements. All classes needed, everyone had a place.

    Besides that vanilla was not about raiding.. it was about the virtual world, the adventure, the leveling and dungeons. And for this, every single spec is viable..
    Last edited by papajohn4; 2017-11-09 at 11:13 AM.
    The trick of selling a FFA-PvP MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by zeoos View Post
    I started playing in Wotlk and was around when the GearScore addon was released. Everything changed that day.
    Today we have the Item Level which more or less, dictates what content you can do in a group.
    With the announcement of Classic servers I can't help but think how a Legion player can go back to Vanilla and not bring with him his "item level ranking system mindset".

    With these said, i am curious about hearing from Vanilla players.

    Do you think Gearscore will be ported and used on Classic Servers?
    If yes, how do you think this will impact the gameplay, raiding and overall the Vanilla experience?
    Well I played a shaman main through out every raid cycle of Classic and I can tell you my own experience. Me and a few other healers were discussing and cooperating on the gear that we put on especially since it was a 40 man raid and some people had different roles then others. Me and the other good healer shaman focused really hard "mp5" gear which was a thing back then. I even remember grinding AV with him to get exalted and buy that flower that gave mp5 which was the highest mp5 offhand back then..

    So I raided most of the MC + part of BWL until I got the mp5 shield, carrying a flower that I got from AV rep vendor so the value of items were not based strictly on ilvl.. Tanks had to get Defense capped before they do any serious raiding and some healers needed to reach a certain lvl of spirit. A specific stat was a lot more important then the overall gearlvl so some people were doing dungeons over and over until they got that 1 specific item. I remember a hunter friend doing stratholme over and over again for some 1h axe that wasn't even epic.

    Also, keep in mind that the standard sets, starting with dungeons and raids came for 8/8 so you had quite a linear progression of gear. Although for some sets tier 1 was better then tier 2 (for example shaman set in tier 1 had better mana recovery/healing bonuses while tier 2 had some elemental/resto hybrid boosts) for pve so you had to downgrade your items.

    Finally, and this is the most important point: raids took very long, there weren't group finders and pug raids + you were locked to the same raid IP for the whole week. It was usually the same 40/50 people you raid with from your guild that you talk with voice chat so people knew each other and how they played, pretty much every night. You didn't sign up and someone picked you based on your gear score. Actually I was pocket healing a warr in AV and his GL was also in the same AV and noticed me and invited me to the guild based on how I was keeping him and his group alive.

    But as you know it was also a simpler time, I'm sure when the classic is release people will go full retard on min/maxing and create a spreadsheet of all the gear you need or all the secondary stat numbers you need to get an invite..

  20. #40
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    Yes it will be ported. It already is for TBC private servers.

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