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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Nexx226 View Post
    They'll also all be horde to have bloodlust most likely.
    Oh what arough surprise they're in for, considering Bloodlust appeared in TBC.

  2. #82
    I am Murloc! Cairhiin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangman View Post
    Best part of vanilla were warriors taking up all the debuff slots with deep wounds
    Or rend, I remember the times I went berserk on Team Speak as a Warlock, seeing my CoE drop off.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity91 View Post
    Yeah but there is definitely a difference between

    "time consuming because we had to try this boss 600 times"

    And

    "time consuming because I had to kill 600 mobs to level up"
    Yep. You are right.
    2 options, and you know, people had diferent opinions.

  4. #84
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Cairhiin View Post
    You make some good points but I think the vanilla server will mostly appeal to players who know what they are in for and are returning players. There is little point in spending a lot of time on the vanilla server if you are actively raiding in Battle for Azeroth. If you don't raid and you want to just play vanilla casually on the side. In which case, you can, most people didn't raid in vanilla.

    Vanilla appeals to a specific type of player however. The type that doesn't mind farming, running BFD to craft, socializing with a large guild, running dungeons together, raiding together, farming together. When you are in such a guild it is fairly easy to play a class that is necessary for raids and as a result I don't think you will see only Rogues and Warriors for example.

    When we raided MC in the early days of vanilla, our class leaders (yea you had actually class leaders) were quite strict on specs in raids but for example Shamans were allowed to be DPS on trash (some were even allowed to be enhancement) as long as they healed on bosses, etc. Sure, you couldn't really be a Fire Mage or Destro Lock in Molten Core but I think most classes back then were restricted to one viable raiding spec. Class balance was pretty much in its infancy if not nonexistent all together. You know the struggle it was to do Vael only to find out you only had 5 Holy Priests online, etc. Nowadays, this would really not work anymore I totally agree. Yet, it still had a certain charm.
    Yea I was a class leader for a while and I was very very strict but so we're the others as we were trying for server firsts, never got one like but was a fun time of my life. Not something I want to relive though I like my casual heroic raiding and my arena pvp (odd considering I hated arena when it came out)

    The more these posts come up and make me think about back then the more I'm glad the game moved on. I think I'd have shot my self in the year of SoO or hellfire if I still had half the shit I used to deal with as well
    Last edited by mmoc56f3565a46; 2017-11-09 at 12:11 PM.

  5. #85
    I am Murloc! Cairhiin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tripconn View Post
    Yea I was a class leader for a while and I was very very strict but so we're the others as we were trying for server firsts, never got one like but was a fun time of my life. Not something I want to relive though I like my casual heroic raiding and my arena pvp (odd considering I hated arena when it came out)
    Yea I don't think I want to go back to being a hardcore raider anymore either. I remember the days of TBC and while I loved them, those days are also well behind me now. I enjoyed raiding in MoP in a mythic 10 guild but when that disappeared I kinda lost the will to play WoW. Now, I can't see myself raid mythic any longer, nor hardcore vanilla/TBC level.

  6. #86
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Cairhiin View Post
    Yea I don't think I want to go back to being a hardcore raider anymore either. I remember the days of TBC and while I loved them, those days are also well behind me now. I enjoyed raiding in MoP in a mythic 10 guild but when that disappeared I kinda lost the will to play WoW. Now, I can't see myself raid mythic any longer, nor hardcore vanilla/TBC level.
    I remember when alliance got shammy in tbc and not many were really about but we got a couple and the utter cat fight over who got to be in the group with the shammy and get windfury buff.

    I think 10 man raids were the best tbh. The more players the more headaches in my view. Lbrs, Ubrs, kara, Za stand out as the most fun raids back pre the 10/25 split

    He'll I even preferred the 20 man's of Aq20 and Za over the totaly frame drop chaos and headache that was 40 man raiding

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    And here we have one of the most blatant example of trolls who come here just to shit up the forums, and have actually never played Vanilla. This post is just a pileup of forum hoaxes and ignorance.
    Let's make a quick parse :

    - Priest in PvP were shadow. Even a blue made a joke about how Shadow melted faces.
    - Warriors were arms in PvP, but for PvE damage it was fury. Anyone saying fury did shit damage is also either ignorant or a troll.
    - Mages were fire only from AQ onward. Being fire against fire-immune foe isn't a great idea.
    - Shaman with bloodlust in Vanilla ? 'nuff said.
    - Palaidn blessing were 5 mn, not 2.

    That's just with a cursory glance.
    This guy is a current WoW anti-Vanilla troll who is pretending to know things from Vanilla but is just copy-pasting the clichés that have been repeated on the forums for years. And don't kid yourselves, most of the retarded posts in this forum come from people just like him.
    Paladin blessings were indeed 5 not 2. But buffing a 40 man with kings... meant that after buffing for 2 minutes you had 1 minute to get your mana back to drink... then about 1.5 min to play... and then start to buff again before stuff ran out... rince repeat... So I get why people say buffing lasted 2 min... effectively it became that...

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by tripconn View Post
    It really really wasn't hard.
    Rose coloured glasses there... death was a constant through levelling. It was hard. Some of the stuff was just impossible to do solo.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity91 View Post
    Yeah but there is definitely a difference between
    "time consuming because we had to try this boss 600 times"
    And
    "time consuming because I had to kill 600 mobs to level up"
    Indeed, and in Classic WoW - levelling was a lot of repeated attempts just on levelling quests.

    Challenge Mode : Play WoW like my disability has me play:
    You will need two people, Brian MUST use the mouse for movement/looking and John MUST use the keyboard for casting, attacking, healing etc.
    Briand and John share the same goal, same intentions - but they can't talk to each other, however they can react to each other's in game activities.
    Now see how far Brian and John get in WoW.


  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Belisaurio View Post
    Shammy here, so I didn't tank.
    But from what I remember, Tank warriors had problems in maintaining aggro when they overgeared 5man dungeons because of some class-mechanic bs (they recieved alot less dmg or something, but the result was that they didn't have enough rage).
    After ZG patch, druids where really awesome (BWL+ZG sets gear/weapon) for 5 man dungeons, and some classes with mini-burst dmg skills...well, made warriors to have a hard time tanking.

    I'm not saying this is what you saw at that time, but it's another point to take in consideration.
    Yeah warriors didn't get hit hard enough to generate rage if they outgeared the instance by too much, our Warriors used to take their pants off to run dungeons.
    When I was younger I used to hope bad things wouldn't happen.
    Now I just hope they're at least funny when they do.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Was real difficulty, not perceived. Levelling to 60 was itself a challenge.



    A large chunk of players (who I spend a lot of time chatting to in IF) never had the opportunity to raid - mainly because they'd never had the opportunity to raid

    Back then raiding was like having a job, lots of effort and you didn't get the position unless you had previous experience.
    untrue, my guild had 6 raid hours per week and was in top 10 in a high pop server in classic, while today in my server a guild with this schedule cannot be in top 50

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by orgonutil View Post
    untrue
    You are factually incorrect, I wasn't stating some kind of opinion - I was just stating actual occurrences.

    Challenge Mode : Play WoW like my disability has me play:
    You will need two people, Brian MUST use the mouse for movement/looking and John MUST use the keyboard for casting, attacking, healing etc.
    Briand and John share the same goal, same intentions - but they can't talk to each other, however they can react to each other's in game activities.
    Now see how far Brian and John get in WoW.


  12. #92
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Rose coloured glasses there... death was a constant through levelling. It was hard. Some of the stuff was just impossible to do solo.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Indeed, and in Classic WoW - levelling was a lot of repeated attempts just on levelling quests.
    So you went to the city and got a group and ran back to your corpse. Fuck me as far as mmos went death in wow was casual as fuck at least you didn't lose exp and delevel like outher mmo's of the time. The only thing hard back then was having the patience to grind for hrs and hrs and hrs that was it. Name 1 actually difficult encounter, boss or quest

    You forget wow was the casual mmo alternative to mmos like ever quest, eve and ff11

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    You are factually incorrect, I wasn't stating some kind of opinion - I was just stating actual occurrences.
    No he's kinda right you confusing difficult with amount of time taken. Just because something took along time or requires alot of time dosent mean it was difficult

    As an example I played paladin and spent the whole of a bwl clear watching porn with follow on only tabbing in to re apply buffs. I have a level 60 nealth kill with the only hard part being my dick.

    I don't think you even hit max level in vanilla the way you talk
    Last edited by mmoc56f3565a46; 2017-11-09 at 01:07 PM.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by tripconn View Post
    They were 2 at launch. Fury wasn't a thing I know I kicked 2 from the guild back then. Warriors were prot or gtfo in my guild.
    You were either an idiot (Fury was the 2nd best DPS in the game once they got good gear) or you actually didn't play Vanilla (blessings were never 2 mn long).
    I give you the benefit of the doubt because your description of what spec were design-wise seems to speak from experience, so I'll put this on being a bad class leader and having wrong memories.

  14. #94
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nexx226 View Post
    For the more causal guilds just wanting to have fun, probably. For guilds that are wanting to race for world first (I'm sure there will be some) you're going to see raids with 10 mage, 10 rogues, 10 locks, 5 priests and 5 warriors. Or whatever proportions of healers you need etc.

    They'll also all be horde to have bloodlust most likely.

    you are confused, shamans didnt have bloodlust until TBC and class stacking wasnt a thing til TBC so you are a whole expansion wrong

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity91 View Post
    Yeah but there is definitely a difference between

    "time consuming because we had to try this boss 600 times"

    And

    "time consuming because I had to kill 600 mobs to level up"
    heh you reminded me of silkroad online - good old time of when around level 25 or 27 you were getting quests like "kill600 tigers" or kill"500 bandits"

    right around time when i said t myself "f..............ck that shit" and given up and never took on another typical grindy asian mmorpg

    people often mistake tedious with hard

    vanilla was never hard - it was always just tedius slow and grindy . which was ok in 2004 - but nobody will deal with this shit in 2017 bedides few basementdwellers who never left their basements (or attic ) since 2004
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2017-11-09 at 01:29 PM.

  16. #96
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    You were either an idiot (Fury was the 2nd best DPS in the game once they got good gear) or you actually didn't play Vanilla (blessings were never 2 mn long).
    I give you the benefit of the doubt because your description of what spec were design-wise seems to speak from experience, so I'll put this on being a bad class leader and having wrong memories.
    Once they got good gear.... Don't blame me officers wanted rogues and furys competed with them in gear and didn't bring much else to the raid.

    And I'm Probly getting my blessings confused with something else. Not that it matters I was mostly afk when I played on my paladin and just buffed / threw out the odd heal.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    And here we have one of the most blatant example of trolls who come here just to shit up the forums, and have actually never played Vanilla. This post is just a pileup of forum hoaxes and ignorance.
    Let's make a quick parse :

    - Priest in PvP were shadow. Even a blue made a joke about how Shadow melted faces.
    - Warriors were arms in PvP, but for PvE damage it was fury. Anyone saying fury did shit damage is also either ignorant or a troll.
    - Mages were fire only from AQ onward. Being fire against fire-immune foe isn't a great idea.
    - Shaman with bloodlust in Vanilla ? 'nuff said.
    - Palaidn blessing were 5 mn, not 2.

    That's just with a cursory glance.
    This guy is a current WoW anti-Vanilla troll who is pretending to know things from Vanilla but is just copy-pasting the clichés that have been repeated on the forums for years. And don't kid yourselves, most of the retarded posts in this forum come from people just like him.
    I'm copy-pasting nothing. I started playing this game the January following the official release, which was in November. My second guild (the first having gone extinct early on) was The Underground on dramabomb Bronzebeard, Alliance. You want me to prove shit to you? Fine. http://www.warcraftrealms.com/charsheet/1954253 -- that's the link for my first character when she was on Bronzebeard, and before I moved her to a couple of different realms. Current wow-armory link: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch.../uther/kyrsyii If you want, I'll even screen-shot her as an option for posting under in the official forums, if you so wish. And on the US realms, the name Kyrsyii is UNIQUE. There has only ever been ONE. You can even check for yourself. I raided 6 nights a week -- three Horde, three Alliance. We didn't have shadow priests in either raid because they were a joke for dps, and if memory serves, they weren't all that great for pvp. The "face-melting" was a reference to how mind-flay looked like you were literally taking a laser to people's faces.

    Most of our warriors were prot with most of the remainder going arms. My Alliance guild had two fury warriors -- one that was rather good and could put the easier arms warriors in their place, and one that took lots of silly risks and just was scrapped up off of the ground most of the time.

    I might be wrong on bloodlust. It's been a number of years. I just remember them having it for a rather long time. But there again, that makes them even more useless. Maybe we just brought them for windfury in vanilla? Or maybe just more warm bodies?

    Okay, I'll give you the blessing thing since I'm only going off of what our paladins were always whining about, even with that weird coordination mod they had at one point. I didn't try a paladin until mid-way through BC, and I'm still scarred from it. The alliance raid had 12-15 paladin on any given night, and NONE of them would make the top 8 for heals. They literally existed for buffing. And drinking booze like fish.

    So sue me for forgetting about the fire immunity in MC. If anything, that makes your position WORSE. In MC, I played either a druid/priest or a warlock, depending on the side.

    So yeah, take your piss and vinegar and go else where. I genuinely wish the vanilla people well, but things like class and spec balance are WORLDS better today than they ever were then. There were nice things, like not having mods that would shout out to the world that you're a healer, so you could go play in pvp. But a lot of them weren't fun. Like trying to reach the damn quest givers on top of Wailing Caverns after someone shared the quests with you for the dungeon. Or taking like 30-45 minutes to get from Teladrassil to Tanaris. Or the Barrens, chat excluded. I mean seriously. That zone was HUGE for a newbie zone, and you spent lifetimes just running from one part of it to the other. Or grinding aimlessly for hours in Scarlet Monastery just to get your first mount at level 40 because of how expensive it was. Or waiting for everyone to join you at the dungeon after you finally got the dungeon group together, and then finding out someone is missing flight points to get there, and so you have to wait like 40 minutes for them to run down. Having to bring a paladin with your 5-man Dire Maul group because resto druids didn't have an out-of-combat rez.

    Quote Originally Posted by tripconn View Post
    A missed note on mage.
    Frost for molten core and bwl because of fire resistance so fire barly did any damage

    Yep I'm glad in one way that classic is coming because it gets all the vanilla hipsters out of the way but I'm not sure people who didn't play back then are really prepared for the many level cluster fuck of a game wow was back then.
    Thanks. I completely forgot about the resistance thing in MC and BWL since I was playing a druid/priest/hunter/warlock at that time. My mage only came out at AQ40.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erinhia View Post
    I'm sorry but you seem to have missed what I was saying. Vanilla was definitely unforgiving in some aspects - specifically in terms of the BASIC aspects of the game. That was the only thing that made it "difficult." If your mage started the fight by going ham on the pull and aggroed the boss that was it. The bosses were consistently immune to all taunts and threat was so tricky that the boss would just run around bam-bam-bam one shotting all your raid while your tank with his hopeless melee-only abilities and low mobility ran around desperately trying to throw sunders on it to get it back. Oh and the boss probably had some kind of one shotting 270 degree cleave just to further take the piss.

    Nowadays, all these very basic things are much friendlier, and this would never happen. You don't have to worry about little things like aggro. The game is more about dealing with complex fights and multiple mechanics. That in itself is unforgiving, but it's more about the combination of all that you have to do. Vanilla game was super simple, but one little thing could cause big problems, whereas the modern game tends to be about handling a huge amount of things all at once and being able to react to those things quickly.

    If you fuck up and someone dies in Legion, you're probably going to wipe because you will lack DPS to meet the encounter check or the berserk timer, or you will lack enough people to soak some mechanic that requires X amount of people later in the fight. In Vanilla it was more common for someone fucking up to spiral the whole raid out of control... but it was harder to fuck up on that level because the mechanics were so much easier. It just felt more meaningful if it happened.

    Best example? See the whelp caves on Onyxia. Some idiot stands on the tail, spawning 20+ whelps. If you were learning the fight (i.e. not overgeared) in Vanilla this was for sure going to lead to a chaotic wipe - Whelps spread out everywhere, two shotting clothies, tanks scrambling around sundering individual whelps trying to do something about it... Nowadays? If that happened you'd just pop some raid and DPS cooldowns, tanks would leap in there and grab everything, you'd throw out some CC and deal with it.

    Certainly there are one-shot-the-whole-raid mechanics in the modern raids too, but they tend to be rare and significant when those are a thing (that's one of the reasons Mythic KJ is so significant, because it's uncommon for a fight to be so packed full of these mechanics).

    Vanilla was about being patient and prepared, the Live game is more about the actual dynamic gameplay. Which one you prefer depends on what appeals to you.
    I have to disagree here. Our raids usually had SOMEONE spawning extra whelps during Ony. They might get maybe one person or two at most. Paladins at the time (when I was doing it on Alliance), had that threat-reduction blessing, not to mention blessing of protection. Smart healers (who would draw all of the whelp aggro) would stand near the add tanks so that thunderclap would pick up the extra whelps. Whelps running around and causing mass havoc could still cause a wipe if someone got tail-swiped deep into the crevice, but most of the time they'd only pop like four extra eggs, and that could be managed. Once the melee figured out where to stand, it didn't become an issue. A bigger issue was deep breath for that fight. Whereas later fights, like Archimonde in BC, any ONE person dying would quite literally immediately send the whole raid into a death spiral. Kiljaeden, Gul'dan, Lich King -- all post-vanilla examples that I can think of off-hand where one person can immediately and easily screw over the entire raid. I think our definitions vary here. You could look at Vaelstraz, but the bomb wasn't a really difficult mechanic, unless the person so picked was sleeping on his keyboard. I'm having difficulty remembering other mechanics that, if one person , and no one in particular, could mess up and screw over the raid. Tanks can always mess things up, but that's the same for any expansion.

    You could also look at it this way. Vanilla had ONE difficulty. Current WoW has multiple difficulties. Mythic is much more difficult than Vanilla, but LFR is much easier. I'd probably equate Vanilla to normal raids, in all honesty.

  18. #98
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    heh you reminded me of silkroad online - good old time of when around level 25 or 27 you were getting quests like "kill600 tigers" or kill"500 bandits"

    right around time when i said t myself "f..............ck that shit" and given up and never took on another typical grindy asian mmorpg

    people often mistake tedious with hard

    vanilla was never hard - it was always just tedius slow and grindy . which was ok in 2004 - but nobody will deal with this shit in 2017 bedides few basementdwellers who never left their basements (or attic ) since 2004
    Silk Road online! Now that takes me back I loved that game

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Rose coloured glasses there... death was a constant through levelling. It was hard. Some of the stuff was just impossible to do solo.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Indeed, and in Classic WoW - levelling was a lot of repeated attempts just on levelling quests.
    see i remeebr this different - i didnt die all the time - i had to sit down and drink/eat every 3rd or 4th mob (mage) - its was slow and boring like f..ck - only time you could die was when you were trying to speed it up - if you maintained certain pace you were never dying.

    but it was never engagiing content - it was slow as f...ck content. i specifiacally rememebr loosing all fun from leveling around felwood/winterspring - thats when i didnt gave any f...s anymore to questlines only wanted to be done with it asap.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrysis View Post
    All the unforgiving mechanics came later, and more of them came with this xpac even. Lose a person, and you won't make the enrage timer, or worse yet, you could literally blow up the entire raid.
    Don't know if you played back then but Baron Geddon would make players literally blow up the entire raid. The fact the raid had even more players made the issue even worse. BTW thats just the entry raid in classic.
    English is not my main language so grammar errors might happen.

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