"MUH Vanilla"

[Moozart]

I think most of you completely missed why they are calling it "Classic" server and NOT Vanilla. "Classic" gives them a more wide open approach to it.

[Charge me Doctor]

In other words, you just guessed that all players on nost wanted a purist version and nothing else?

The sheer fact that you bring "all players on dust" and "purist version" up proves that "we want vanilla" crowd want different things. This will split even further closer we are to the release and when more information will be available. It happens literally everywhere and every time whenever people want to get something without specifying what exactly they want. They throw a broad net to get a lot of people, then people get closer to the goal and say "hey, it's not exactly what i wanted" then start to separate from main movement.

Also /lol at "fought for vanilla servers"

[Zaeyla]

If it wasn't in vanilla they shouldn't bother to add it in, that includes any kind of balance change or QoL changes.

This isn't intended for people whom play retail, its almost entirely catered to the tens of thousands of people playing on private-servers, and those who used to play WoW but quit over the years.

[Charge me Doctor]

I think most of you completely missed why they are calling it "Classic" server and NOT Vanilla. "Classic" gives them a more wide open approach to it.

No, everyone with a bit of sense understands that. Also "we want to bring authentic experience" - isn't "we are going to bring patched 1.12 servers". Experience is when you log into the game and see all your talents disappear and refunded. Experience is when you finally bought your 100g mount, log in the next day and see it cost 10g and riding that you haven't bought costs 100g now. Experience is when you think that tanking with 2-hander on a warrior is the way to go, because mobs don't run away killing the priest. Experience can't be emulated, experience can't be recreated by replicating something old. They'll literally have to recreate the game, add a lot of changes to give "authentic experience" (whatever meaning they put into these words)

[Deleted]

The sheer fact that you bring "all players on dust" and "purist version" up proves that "we want vanilla" crowd want different things. This will split even further closer we are to the release and when more information will be available. It happens literally everywhere and every time whenever people want to get something without specifying what exactly they want. They throw a broad net to get a lot of people, then people get closer to the goal and say "hey, it's not exactly what i wanted" then start to separate from main movement.

Also /lol at "fought for vanilla servers"

Of course we all want different things. The only sane solution to this is to let the arguments decide which direction to go.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

"QoL changes won't make Vanilla not Vanilla"

"Vanilla was about the difficulty, grind and pain"

Fucking pick one.

They are the same thing and the fact that you can't see why means you should reevaluate why you play the game. I'm not sure when people associated quality of life with change how the game is pkayed but there are a half dozen things that can be added to the game that would actually make the game more complete all while increasing the quality of life.

But if you think classic is difficult you must be a noob so I can understand the confusion.

[cparle87]

The part that annoys me is that each person has their own "vision" of what Classic is, or should be. I of course have my own, but I'm not going to shove it down people's throats as if it were the gospel.

Most people aren't as reasonable as you are and no matter what Blizzard does there's going to be large swaths of vanilla lovers claiming that Blizzard "betrayed" them in some way.

[Deleted]

If it wasn't in vanilla they shouldn't bother to add it in, that includes any kind of balance change or QoL changes.

This isn't intended for people whom play retail, its almost entirely catered to the tens of thousands of people playing on private-servers, and those who used to play WoW but quit over the years.

The vanilla experience isn't bound to what Vanilla was 2004. It's about staying true to the core concepts, while improving on them. Blizzard should make a game with Blizzard quality, not make a private server version. Blizzard opens up plenty of good opportunities that private servers didn't.

[Charge me Doctor]

Of course we all want different things. The only sane solution to this is to let the arguments decide which direction to go.

The only solution we'll get is blizzard deciding how they'll implement it...

But in case of crowd - arguments never work, you can't argue opinions - someone who played classic through and through wants to experience it again, and someone who haven't played it at all and played PSs instead would see arguments as "we'll get what we want and you won't". Simple as that, it's up to blizzard to decide how many people they will disappoint with the release, and how many they'll please. I believe that they'll make right decision anyways.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

If it wasn't in vanilla they shouldn't bother to add it in, that includes any kind of balance change or QoL changes.

This isn't intended for people whom play retail, its almost entirely catered to the tens of thousands of people playing on private-servers, and those who used to play WoW but quit over the years.

What about things that weren't added to classic because tbc was coming out, or things that were added part way through classic but only ended up being in for 3 or so months. You can not act like everything in classic was meticulously placed. That is beyond clueless. There are some things in the game that they would have changed if they could have and it should be very easy to identify them.

[Deleted]

Let Vanilla be Vanilla

If you are asking for QoL changes is because you are NOT one of the people who asked for this.
You are either a retail player or a person who already played Vanilla and have little interest in experiencing it again.

If what you want is TBC...........THEN WAIT for TBC servers.

[Macaquerie]

The goal should not be either to make Classic an authentic vanilla experience or too modern, but to make it as close as possible to the idealized vanilla that people remember with nostalgia goggles on. Putting in subtle tweaks to make the gameplay a bit smoother and more enjoyable would be a good idea, but importing too many features from the live version is probably not a good idea. Likewise, if they stick too close to the original game, then everybody will quickly remember how much they hated it and stop playing, but they need to try and keep most of these tweaks under the hood.

The one thing they will have trouble with is the fact that most people spent all of vanilla longingly looking at gear that they'd never be able to get, while scampering around in shitty blues and greens for the most part. Going back and getting this stuff and actually having a reason to wear it is probably a big reason a lot of people are interested in legacy servers, so there is a problem with trying to satisfy this demand without making the loot so easy to get that it becomes too common and hence boring.

[Zaeyla]

The vanilla experience isn't bound to what Vanilla was 2004. It's about staying true to the core concepts, while improving on them. Blizzard should make a game with Blizzard quality, not make a private server version. Blizzard opens up plenty of good opportunities that private servers didn't.

If its not bound to vanilla its not vanilla then, these aren't classic servers then defeating the entire premise of these servers in the first place.
They are only happening in the first place because over a hundred thousand fans of a very certain private server rose up after it was shutdown and petitioned blizzard to create them, they sent out an email to all the players of that server that then reached blizzard over a year ago about what they wanted a potential legacy server to be and overwhelmingly the response was that this should remain as true to vanilla as physically and technically possible. The results of that survey's link is here: http://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44272 (Apologizes to the mods if this violates a rule. Don't think so since that is no longer a server and a movement instead)

What about things that weren't added to classic because tbc was coming out, or things that were added part way through classic but only ended up being in for 3 or so months. You can not act like everything in classic was meticulously placed. That is beyond clueless. There are some things in the game that they would have changed if they could have and it should be very easy to identify them.

If something didn't belong in vanilla then they likely wouldn't of had it in the first place, yes their we're changes made in the final days of vanilla to accommodate the incoming TBC, well maybe that's what the community and Blizzard should debate/poll on instead of discussing: "Lets Rebalance all the imbalanced specs!" "Lets Rebalance the itemization!" "Lets add in area loot or transmog afterall they don't actually effect the gameplay" (They do btw Area loot would make aoe farming/grinding more efficient/quicker thereby hurting economy and transmog would inflate BoE prices massively due to people wanting to collect appearances)

Overall it's extremely simple depending on how blizzard goes about this a few ways #1 Progressive patches: Try to emulate original game/patch balance/features by going patch by patch. #2 Progressive Content: Nostalrius/P-server style: stay on patch 1.12.1 balance/features but progressively release content. #3 just throw out a server with last patch and all content unlocked.

I'm for #1 and #2. If #1 they should try their best to keep class/specs exactly as they we're throughout the patches or some variation of.

They need to keep Classic as Classic as possible or it will inevitably fail, this again was never intended for the same audience as retail attempts to hook in otherwise they would've never bothered creating two of the same game for same audience.

[Deleted]

If its not bound to vanilla its not vanilla then, these aren't classic servers then defeating the entire premise of these servers in the first place.
They are only happening in the first place because over a hundred thousand fans of a very certain private server rose up after it was shutdown and petitioned blizzard to create them, they sent out an email to all the players of that server that then reached blizzard over a year ago about what they wanted a potential legacy server to be and overwhelmingly the response was that this should remain as true to vanilla as physically and technically possible. The results of that survey's link is here: http://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44272 (Apologizes to the mods if this violates a rule. Don't think so since that is no longer a server and a movement instead)



If something didn't belong in vanilla then they likely wouldn't of had it in the first place, yes their we're changes made in the final days of vanilla to accommodate the incoming TBC, well maybe that's what the community and Blizzard should debate/poll on instead of discussing: "Lets Rebalance all the imbalanced specs!" "Lets Rebalance the itemization!" "Lets add in area loot or transmog afterall they don't actually effect the gameplay" (They do btw Area loot would make aoe farming/grinding more efficient/quicker thereby hurting economy and transmog would inflate BoE prices massively due to people wanting to collect appearances)

Overall it's extremely simple depending on how blizzard goes about this a few ways #1 Progressive patches: Try to emulate original game/patch balance/features by going patch by patch. #2 Progressive Content: Nostalrius/P-server style: stay on patch 1.12.1 balance/features but progressively release content. #3 just throw out a server with last patch and all content unlocked.

I'm for #1 and #2. If #1 they should try their best to keep class/specs exactly as they we're throughout the patches or some variation of.

They need to keep Classic as Classic as possible or it will inevitably fail, this again was never intended for the same audience as retail attempts to hook in otherwise they would've never bothered creating two of the same game for same audience.

I said it's not bound to what vanilla was 2004. That is a huge different. Vanilla has a set of core concepts that you can stay true to, without making it exactly as it was 2004. Tell me how that is not true!

[Zaeyla]

I said it's not bound to what vanilla was 2004. That is a huge different. Vanilla has a set of core concepts that you can stay true to, without making it exactly as it was 2004. Tell me how that is not true!

Greatly depends on what you're suggesting which you haven't stated to me, If your suggestion is whether or not UBRS should 10 or 15man you'd have a point, if its whether BG's should be cross realm or not you'd have a point.

Adding in anything that wasn't in vanilla into vanilla instantly makes it not vanilla just retail with vanilla content.

[Tahoga]

Not sure how people are getting so worked up over this, there is no debate. Classic will simply be the last patch of vanilla with AQ gates possibly closed.

[Protean]

This argument is becoming increasingly absurd.

Is it still vanilla if they don't give 1 player the legendary neck that dropped in MC before removing it from the game? Or is not giving to anyone going to make it not vanilla?

Will it still be vanilla if when AQ opens they make CThun mathematically impossible and don't change it till a guild does the actual math and makes angry posts on the forums?

Is it still vanilla if paladins reckoning bomb isn't still glitched on release and is able to one shot doom lord Kazzak making a focus video on YT?

This argument is infantile and muh feels is not an objective argument for something being good or bad. Vanilla is not authentic only if things happen exactly the way they did, it's about grinds, pain and pleasure and the experience of raising with 40 people, difficulty in getting epics, being challenged by the game.

It will still be vanilla if ubrs is 10 man on release and not 15 man on release like it was before.

Minor QoL changes do not make vanilla not vanilla just like fixing errors back then didn't make vanilla a different game

There's no clear answer to the Ship Zephyr dilemma.

Except in this case there is one: They never promised to make vanilla. They promised to make an authentic replica called World of Warcraft Classic.

[Deleted]

Not sure how people are getting so worked up over this, there is no debate. Classic will simply be the last patch of vanilla with AQ gates possibly closed.

Because some people have spent literally years trying to get Blizzard to launch official classic realms, and now it seems like there's a very real possibility of all that effort being wasted by the morons that are crawling out of the woodwork asking for things like the updated models and dual spec.

[Deleted]

Because some people have spent literally years trying to get Blizzard to launch official classic realms, and now it seems like there's a very real possibility of all that effort being wasted by the morons that are crawling out of the woodwork asking for things like the updated models and dual spec.

This .

[Deleted]

Greatly depends on what you're suggesting which you haven't stated to me, If your suggestion is whether or not UBRS should 10 or 15man you'd have a point, if its whether BG's should be cross realm or not you'd have a point.

Adding in anything that wasn't in vanilla into vanilla instantly makes it not vanilla just retail with vanilla content.

Of course nothing that takes away from the vanilla experience should be done. Improving graphics/models does't take away from the Vanilla experience for example. Making more spec available doesn't take away from the experience, as long as they're not all tuned for raiding. Balancing could be something else than "making everyone equally good at raiding and pvp".

- - - Updated - - -

Because some people have spent literally years trying to get Blizzard to launch official classic realms, and now it seems like there's a very real possibility of all that effort being wasted by the morons that are crawling out of the woodwork asking for things like the updated models and dual spec.

What a shame these people who fought have different opinions.