Dual spec is a must for classic.

[bloodwulf]

As having played Vanilla extensively, i feel that what people want is not Vanilla. Blizzard was exactly right in saying "you think you want this, but you don't". People begged and pleaded for Vanilla Servers, and now they are getting them, but that is not good enough. Now they want Vanilla, but with more. Not just this thread but others, they want dual-spec, they want class/faction equality (pallies and shamans on both), they want so many QoL changes that it would not be Vanilla, it would be Vanilla, with chocolate/strawberry swirls.

Blizzard was exactly right. You thought you wanted it, but you didn't really want what was being asked.

[ThatsOurEric]

We could compromise, no dual spec, but abolish all gold costs for talent switches at the trainer!

Nein, nein, nein, NEIN!

Quality of life improvements like that? I say nein yet again my German friend! Vanilla was
meant to be difficult and terrible, and so difficult and terrible is what it must be!

[Derecho]

The second you add systems that weren't in Pre-BC it is no longer a legacy realm but a Remastered edition. The only question you should ask yourself is "Was this system in Pre-BC?" if the answer is no then it doesn't belong on the Legacy realm.

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There was no arena you had BG's but to be honest with you I was a Holy Paladin and I raided the same spec I PVP'd as.

Luckily, you aren't the one making the decisions nor dictating what belongs on the classic server, are you?

You are perfectly welcome to your opinion. If it wasn't in Vanilla you don't want it in the game. Got it. I don't happen to agree with that opinion, so I don't need to follow the line of thought that you follow.

I argue that, just because something wasn't in vanilla in 2004 doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered for the classic version coming our way.

[denisgsv]

And there are people who want to play classic (the grind, bad gear, no mog, same raids, pvp, etc - but they'd like some QoL that doesn't ruin classic, but enhances the experience.)

They aren't stupid ideas because you disagree with them. These are forums, the whole point of them is to discuss things. Lots of people have weighed in on how they want no changes, others have weighed in saying it'd be great. What's not acceptable is when people try to shut down discussion they don't like.

I am with the OP. Been telling my friends that dual spec would make sense in classic, as it doesn't ruin the game play aspect of it.

Those people want another thing, it's like people asking here for TBC .... It's unrelated, there are people who want 5 expansions of content to follow vanilla philosophy, there are people who want "BfA" in vanilla style, it doesnt mean we should go and spam "BfA" forum with topics about how we want LFG remove, 1 difficulty per raid only , resistance back , flying removed and another millions things from vanilla.

If you would ask 1000000 people for their ideal wow version you would have 100000 versions.
The thing here, this is Vanilla wow, or Classic wow, the wow we all been asking for 13 years, its not the remastered version, thats why all this topics are out of place.



Edit: imagine Wotlk being 100 times better, and having a insane amount of fans and followers, so they keep begging blizzard for years to be able to play THAT version, they keep playing on pirate servers, each time their progress wiped but they still do, they still keep going, they still love and apreciate exactly that, a somehow fragile balance which made it perfect. They are so many so loud, that blizzard actually decided to make it so.
And then a bunch of vanilla fans come and start asking for changes to make that version better, like removing DK's, removing flying and other stuff .

Even now doesnt this sound stupid ? like wtf people we been asking this EXACTLY this for 13 YEARS, and you want what ? stuff changed ?

[Swalload]

This isn't just some QoL minor addition, this is something that is needed for the game to thrive, so healers can have ret sets and actually use them in pvp, to actually have a thriving community to its highest potential. I'm on a classic server right now, and I recall from my time during classic before this, I remember being a holy paladin who could literally do none of the Badge quest in silithis and for naxxramas

I remember not being able to have enough gold to swap back when I finished my questing because gold was actually hard to get back then , so I just could not participate in said event.

I know you want to MUH Vanilla on everything but logical forethought would tell you that making people unable to play portions of the game is not some ingenius game design we should be so quick to want to preserve.


Any holy priest, paladin, restoration druid protection warrior with little gear will know exactly what I mean by this.

Why would healers switch to dps in pvp? The whole point of being a healer is to stay healer in PvP so your side doesn't just straight up lose.

But anyways, no. Vanilla didn't have that, so it should not be in Classic, that's not what it was and not what people asked for.

[Yot]

I am with the OP. Been telling my friends that dual spec would make sense in classic, as it doesn't ruin the game play aspect of it.

The gameplay aspect of it was misery and walking to school uphill in the snow both ways. Once you start lessening that precisely through QoL changes then the entire experience is adversely changed.

[Perkunas]

Luckily, you aren't the one making the decisions nor dictating what belongs on the classic server, are you?

You are perfectly welcome to your opinion. If it wasn't in Vanilla you don't want it in the game. Got it. I don't happen to agree with that opinion, so I don't need to follow the line of thought that you follow.

I argue that, just because something wasn't in vanilla in 2004 doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered for the classic version coming our way.

It's not a part of Classic. Classic is Pre-BC Warcraft. By adding that system you are ignoring the stated goal of authenticity. They've said it in multiple interviews now that's their goal an authentic experience. You're basically asking them to change their stated goal because you want a Remastered WoW.

[Derecho]

Those people want another thing, it's like people asking here for TBC .... It's unrelated, there are people who want 5 expansions of content to follow vanilla philosophy, there are people who want "BfA" in vanilla style, it doesnt mean we should go and spam "BfA" forum with topics about how we want LFG remove, 1 difficulty per raid only , resistance back , flying removed and another millions things from vanilla.

If you would ask 1000000 person his ideal wow version you would have 100000 versions.
The thing here, this is Vanilla wow, or Classic wow, the wow we all been asking for 13 years, its not the remastered version, thats why all this topics are out of place

The problem with your argument is that you are narrowing down and defining the product more so than what Blizzard has. You believe that Classic is Vanilla. When logical arguments are presented, like, what version of vanilla are we talking about? - you get a flurry of different patch answers. There's little consensus on what Vanilla actually means to you guys. It appears that the closest thing we can get to is that if it existed pre-tbc, it belongs in the game. If it came after, no matter how small or resonable, it's off the table.

Here's a snippet of what Jeff Kaplan said about it:

Jeff: Remembering that the auction house wasn’t linked, so the server communally had to decide "I guess it's Ironforge and Orgrimmar, sorry other cities I guess we're never going to go to you". I think it’s really cool, and I think there’s more to do in that direction, but to me, I think the cool nostalgia is - getting back to - how do we create that the sense of small community within a larger game. It’s not so much about giving me Burning Crusade or vanilla exactly -- I think it’s a red herring that people have latched onto too hard. It’s the community, not the game.

Jeff Kaplan comments in Reddit thread

It is actually you guys who are drawing a line in the sand that Blizzard itself hasn't. Until Blizzard defines what's coming, it's open to speculate, open to wish and dream, etc.

[Romanthony]

Nope. They wont. You all begged and begged for "Vanilla", so Vanilla you will get. It will be clunky and not player or spec friendly, just as it was. Being unable to play what spec you liked, not having gold, not being able to purchase a mount/riding skill was part of the experience.
Vanilla was/is not what everyone so fondly remembers, it was very difficult to do things due to the tremendous time investment.

Totally agree you asked for Vanilla thats what you get

[munkeyinorbit]

This isn't just some QoL minor addition, this is something that is needed for the game to thrive, so healers can have ret sets and actually use them in pvp, to actually have a thriving community to its highest potential. I'm on a classic server right now, and I recall from my time during classic before this, I remember being a holy paladin who could literally do none of the Badge quest in silithis and for naxxramas

I remember not being able to have enough gold to swap back when I finished my questing because gold was actually hard to get back then , so I just could not participate in said event.

I know you want to MUH Vanilla on everything but logical forethought would tell you that making people unable to play portions of the game is not some ingenius game design we should be so quick to want to preserve.


Any holy priest, paladin, restoration druid protection warrior with little gear will know exactly what I mean by this.

No. Sounds like you actually want WotLK. I hear there are plenty of private servers that will allow you to do that. Classic is going to be an updated version of Vanilla. Blizzard has already stated that QoL additions made before BC will not be making it in the game. If you want to PvP go back to the capital, pay your 50g for the respec and do your PvP. Need to raid? 50g. Don't like it? Stop being bad and get out there and grind. Maybe you could just quit and leave classic to the people who actually know how to play the game.

[bryroo]

The purists who think Classic is going to over throw Live are in for a VERY rude awakening if they don't start considering any compromises

[denisgsv]

most of ppl actually agree in patch, last patch with staggered content. And most i saw as patch suggestion was 2 or 3 not a "flurry".
The thing is the game, and the line itself is not a blizzard idea, its OUR request which they finally decided to do, its not something they came out with, its something they agreed and jumped in.

[munkeyinorbit]

I am with the OP. Been telling my friends that dual spec would make sense in classic, as it doesn't ruin the game play aspect of it.

Do your friends know that you are fucking lying to them? It wouldn't make any sense at all because you are adding content from a non classic time into classic. Do you even proof-read what you write?

[Somnium]

you play vanilla game exactly like it was in 2003.

Many of us would love to get a hands-on glimpse of 2003 World of Warcraft, but that's not Vanilla.

[Derecho]

It's not a part of Classic. Classic is Pre-BC Warcraft. By adding that system you are ignoring the stated goal of authenticity. They've said it in multiple interviews now that's their goal an authentic experience. You're basically asking them to change their stated goal because you want a Remastered WoW.

You are defining the parameters by which Blizzard can accomplish its goal, something Blizzard itself has not done. They could come in and say, if it wasn't pre-TBC, it's not going to be in the game, not matter what it is. That would end discussion on my end.

You are also arguing that if something is added, it won't be authentic. It's impossible for Classic WoW to be 100% authentic. It can feel authentic, much like sitting in a classic car with new a new AC system or a blue tooth stereo might feel authentic.

My whole argument hinges on the fact that, in my opinion - and that's all it is - adding certain QoL features that improve things under the hood will not ruin the authentic feel of WoW Classic. To me, Vanilla was big. Partly because you ran everywhere to level 40. You started making sure you had the gold for a mount by 35, praying that you could afford the mount at 40. It was talking to people and getting to know them. It was not being able to take on more than one mob at a time solo. It was using bandages all the time. It was the barrens. It was MC, BWL, AQ40. It was level 60. It was looking like a clown. It was wishing you had the tier sets and feeling so great when you got them.

Adding in the ability to have two specs at a time, or having bosses drop 5-7 pieces of loot instead of 2-3 doesn't ruin that authentic feel for me. It makes it better.

I think that, no matter what happens, Classic will be a remastered Vanilla to some extent - we are just arguing to what extent is acceptable to us.

[pateuvasiliu]

That's okay - no arenas in vanilla, so you won't need to respec.

.

Maybe, but healers and tanks need to farm. They shouldn't have to pay 50g or get an alt.

Also maybe I want to play PvP and cba to respec. It's a bad design and should be fixed.

It's not a part of Classic.

That's not a good argument. An unkillable C'thun and bugs were also part of Classic.

[Twoddle]

Modern generation gamers want everything NOW without effort, they won't be able to hack it as far as Classic goes.

[Derecho]

Do your friends know that you are fucking lying to them? It wouldn't make any sense at all because you are adding content from a non classic time into classic. Do you even proof-read what you write?

How am I lying to my friends by giving them my opinion? Does adding blue tooth a classic car ruin the authenticity of it? What about new tires? Re-working the interior with synthetic leather? Do these things ruin how the car drives or makes you feel when you drive it? They may for you, but they won't for others.

Again, I get the opinion of the try-hards saying that, if it wasn't in vanilla, it shouldn't be in classic.

It doesn't make me a liar to suggest that, since a QoL change occurred after Vanilla, it doesn't belong in Classic WoW. Now, it's your belief that it doesn't. You are more than welcome to stay on your private server if there are changes made to Classic that you don't like. The same goes for me continuing on in BfA if I don't want to pick up what they put out as Classic WoW.

Until then, I am more than willing to discuss what I think Classic WoW should look like on these forums.

[pateuvasiliu]

Modern generation gamers want everything NOW without effort, they won't be able to hack it as far as Classic goes.

Effort? You mistake time spent for effort. Classic is not hard, it just requires time.

[Demetrion]

No. Dual spec is not must for classic. Why? You want vanilla experience, experience it as it was.