How the Horde can keep up with the Alliance?

[Deleted]

wow it never stops amazing me another thread in which the horde are crying again its clear alliance lose the most and considering also that originally NE controlled most of Kalimdor before the orc scrum came and took more and more and more of it for the NE´s this is a disaster to what used to be one of the more powerful races of Azeroth. But ye lets think about horde who had not 1 not 2 but 3 fucking xpacks dedicated 90% of their side yup pool old horde I feel so bad for you with your first world problems hell even when a faction leader dies for you they dont stay dead but ours? naaa gone for good and if not they all become neutral so the horde can enjoy them as well.

[Deleted]

Because 1 orc counters 10 humans. 1 tauren counters 15 humans. Trolls be smoking bhang. Forsaken are up for 24/7.

[Combatbutler]

Darnassus is not "another small city" its a fucking huge tragedy. Darnassus has been around a lot longer than Stormwind and to lose it and all of Teldrassil is a fucking tragedy, for really any Alliance, and especially if you're NE.

It is a tragedy, but you are a bit off Darnassus was built shortly before wow it was not even twenty years old. The world tree was created after the battle of mount Hyjal in a desperate attempt to get immortality back after all.

[ello]

ppl in this thread underestimate the importance of UC. blizz even said "the horde already lost their most defensible stronghold in EK".


but even if teldrassil is more important, the alliance should still be 1000x stronger than the horde. they were the "sole superpower on Azeroth" and there is no reason to believe the horde has caught up militairly(especially since literally every "world hero" is alliance) unless blizzard pulls some bs out of their nether regions.

[n8four]

Because 1 orc counters 10 humans. 1 tauren counters 15 humans. Trolls be smoking bhang. Forsaken are up for 24/7.

Not only trolls smoking it seems.

There was a minor human civil war with VanCleef in Cata. Not huge but it definitely pulled some Stormwind humans out and turned them against Varian. Cata had some major victories for the Horde as well. Could have been an even loss comparing the Horde war machine victories to the loss of Garrosh's forces.

I had wrote up a post years ago comparing the Horde forces to the Alliance. Tauren and Orc are small in numbers considering the entirety of Horde Orcs fled across the ocean to Kalimdor in stolen boats. Perhaps they were made by them, but never got the impression is was a lot. Tauren were being hunted to extinction in several tribes. They united to become what they are today but wasn't a lot.

Hard to say how their forces are in comparison. It's left ambiguous for a reason.

[Balinus]

Alliance loses it's second biggest city and the Horde a smaller one that lies under the ruins of a formerly big one would be more accurate.
Night elves are the second biggest faction in lore (and player base) on the alliance side, so the loss of Teldrassil is nothing but a full blown catastrophe.
That trade off hugely favours the horde.

The second biggest city is Ironforge, lorewise. Or the first.
And u guys keep saying that they were in Darnassus all killed without time to do shit. We dont know, they may have escaped, lots of people.
Not saying it is nothing, but i think Undercity is what held the Forsaken in EK, while Darnassus wasnt even on Kalimdor itself. From my perspective the elves could still stay in hyjal protected by Cenarius and the other demigods.

[Plehnard]

The second biggest city is Ironforge, lorewise. Or the first.

Never said anything about Darnassus. You know that Teldrassil not only hosts Darnassus but multiple night elven settlements? The majority of their species lives on that tree.
Those bright lights on those pictures a lot of people mistake for that new material is actually city lights. The horde will basically burn a skyscraper full of people. How many should survive there? Jumping into the water isn't really an option from heights like that.

Edit.
Ok, I wrote city there. Should have been region.

[Rogalicus]

-Cata : Thrall center of the expansion (although he became neutral it is seen as a Horde centric xpac)

Cata is seen as Horde centric because Alliance kept losing in all the revamped content. Horde gets Azshara, Horde gets big part of Eversong, Horde kicks the shit out of Alliance in Stonetalon, Horde destroys Southshore, Horde get Andorhal, Horde tries to get Stromegarde, Horde nukes Gilneas. Auberdin was destroyed, Loch Modan dam was destroyed, Westfall is overriden with homeless peasants, hald of Stormwind in ruins. Meanwhile, Horde loses one small hunter camp in Southern Barrens and pretends like they are victims.

[AcidicSyn]

Because 1 orc counters 10 humans. 1 tauren counters 15 humans. Trolls be smoking bhang. Forsaken are up for 24/7.

In a nutshell. lol, well said.

[KyrtF]

Honestly, lets have a recap, and if u have any on the Alliance side, please post:
1- Vanilla nothing really big happens
2- TBC as well, we got reinforced by each 1 faction that is relatively weak [ in terms of numbers and contrinutions ].
3- WotLK the Horde side, specifically the Forsaken have a civil war, with BOTH Alliance and Horde sieging it. I think the Horde lost big time here. Since we dont know what is cannon in the Gunship battle, and even if Alliance lost it, it isnt a big deal.
4- Cata there were lots of skirmishes, but i dont remember anything really specific that i would say were huge losses.
5- MoP.....hummmm here it gets interesting. Okay we lost Theramore and lots of big peeps there, but only served that the Horde lost Dalaran support. Then Horde gets a civil was AGAIN! Both factions siege Orgrimmar, cant say that isnt a big loss.
6- WoD i dont remember anything specifically.
7- Legion, we all lost, but idont think one lost more than the other.
And now with BoA, Alliance loose another small city, while the Horde looses a big one.
So with that in mind, am I wrong to say taht the Horde should be a lot weaker than Alliance?
ps: A forgot to mention that Garrosh even got his ass kicked in the novels, but aside from that i dont rmemeber much from it.

In WoW "reality" - the Horde has always been less powerful and weaker than the Alliance. Its a bunch of raggedy survivors and near extinct races living on borrowed times and they've only been able to "keep up" thanks to the fact that we are better than they are.

By that I mean or cultures are more, well...savage...than that of the Alliance. Each and every able bodied Orc for example is a potential warriors, whereas the Alliance maintains solid core of professional soldiers, augmented by conscripts and it has to spend an absolute fortune training and equipping each soldier with weaponry and armour to simply let him keep up. Add in that the Alliance must disperse most of its strength guarding and protecting its lands, and you get a situation whereby the Horde CAN hold its own, so long as it doesn't provoke the Alliance into using its full strength

Things will only get better in BfA because we will be joining with the Zandalari Empire. Finally, the Horde will get a powerful, established nation as a "member" - sure it has problems what with sinking into the sea and all that, but that's just a minor issue.

More seriously - burning down Teldrassil is going to cause problems. The Horde and Alliance probably would have been at peace except for the minor flashpoint in Ashenvale and, mores seriously, the Forsaken. But now we'll have burnt down Teldrassil, moved into sacred and ancestral Night Elfs lands and while the game will show us winning a lot, in "reality" all we've likely done is woken a sleeping giant. I would anticipate that the Alliance are able to secure most of the Eastern Kingdoms, but that we'll be lucky to hold the north of Kalimdor. The Night Elves have that big army in Feralas for example and I don't think they'll be too happy.

So relax...the Horde is a lot weaker than the Alliance. That's part of the fun. That's party of who we are...and with the Zandalaris joining us, we just got a good bit stronger.

[AcidicSyn]

In WoW "reality" - the Horde has always been less powerful and weaker than the Alliance. Its a bunch of raggedy survivors and near extinct races living on borrowed times and they've only been able to "keep up" thanks to the fact that we are better than they are.

By that I mean or cultures are more, well...savage...than that of the Alliance. Each and every able bodied Orc for example is a potential warriors, whereas the Alliance maintains solid core of professional soldiers, augmented by conscripts and it has to spend an absolute fortune training and equipping each soldier with weaponry and armour to simply let him keep up. Add in that the Alliance must disperse most of its strength guarding and protecting its lands, and you get a situation whereby the Horde CAN hold its own, so long as it doesn't provoke the Alliance into using its full strength

Things will only get better in BfA because we will be joining with the Zandalari Empire. Finally, the Horde will get a powerful, established nation as a "member" - sure it has problems what with sinking into the sea and all that, but that's just a minor issue.

More seriously - burning down Teldrassil is going to cause problems. The Horde and Alliance probably would have been at peace except for the minor flashpoint in Ashenvale and, mores seriously, the Forsaken. But now we'll have burnt down Teldrassil, moved into sacred and ancestral Night Elfs lands and while the game will show us winning a lot, in "reality" all we've likely done is woken a sleeping giant. I would anticipate that the Alliance are able to secure most of the Eastern Kingdoms, but that we'll be lucky to hold the north of Kalimdor. The Night Elves have that big army in Feralas for example and I don't think they'll be too happy.

So relax...the Horde is a lot weaker than the Alliance. That's part of the fun. That's party of who we are...and with the Zandalaris joining us, we just got a good bit stronger.

We didn't just get a bit stronger, IIRC bliz dev stated the Zandalari Navy is "As powerful if not more so" than the Kul'Tiras navy. I expect us to lose the battle in Arathi, but there's no way those dogs are going to be reinforcing whatever they have left on Kalimdor, whatever they do manage to get passed the Zandalari fleet will no doubt focus on reinforcing their presence at the wound in Silithis.

Of course, this is all hinging on the elves being capable of holding onto their lands; let's hope they got that old handy shield of theirs working again. Defeat in Arathi will effectively cut them off from us. But until then and while they hold the North in EK, Shandris Feathermoon stands alone on Kalimdor; and the thought of sending her severed head to Stormrage and Tyrande just makes me giddy. Clocks ticking and we have work to do.

[heerobya]

Horde needs to embrace the fact they are supposed to be the "bad guy big uglies" faction and just get on with it.

[Gnarilex]

Cata is seen as Horde centric because Alliance kept losing in all the revamped content. Horde gets Azshara, Horde gets big part of Eversong, Horde kicks the shit out of Alliance in Stonetalon, Horde destroys Southshore, Horde get Andorhal, Horde tries to get Stromegarde, Horde nukes Gilneas. Auberdin was destroyed, Loch Modan dam was destroyed, Westfall is overriden with homeless peasants, hald of Stormwind in ruins. Meanwhile, Horde loses one small hunter camp in Southern Barrens and pretends like they are victims.

Did you mean Ashenvale? Eversong Woods is blood elf territory.

[Rogalicus]

Did you mean Ashenvale? Eversong Woods is blood elf territory.

Yeah, Ashenvale.

[AcidicSyn]

Horde needs to embrace the fact they are supposed to be the "bad guy big uglies" faction and just get on with it.

"bad guy" is subjective. Are you a bad guy when you exterminate a colony of cockroaches or a bee hive that's formed under your front porch?

When you might see "The willful massacre of an entire regions population", I look upon that same scene and see "The preparing of a new and rich land for settlement by my people and their allies".

My people don't think I'm bad, and let's be honest do I really care about what a few thousand screaming humans think? Should I give a sob story about how they left me to die defending my homeland only to be raised as a "monster" and therefore deserve death? I could, but I'd just be lying to myself. Those humans or night elves, or whatever it is that particular day will be dead soon, their feelings aren't important.

A lot of horde folk are pretty ugly though, no argument there. Have you actually spent time with a troll? True story, they don't bathe because they find that stink they carry sexy!

[Deleted]

Resurect Garrosh. Off traitors. Nothing more.

[Balinus]

In WoW "reality" - the Horde has always been less powerful and weaker than the Alliance. Its a bunch of raggedy survivors and near extinct races living on borrowed times and they've only been able to "keep up" thanks to the fact that we are better than they are.

By that I mean or cultures are more, well...savage...than that of the Alliance. Each and every able bodied Orc for example is a potential warriors, whereas the Alliance maintains solid core of professional soldiers, augmented by conscripts and it has to spend an absolute fortune training and equipping each soldier with weaponry and armour to simply let him keep up. Add in that the Alliance must disperse most of its strength guarding and protecting its lands, and you get a situation whereby the Horde CAN hold its own, so long as it doesn't provoke the Alliance into using its full strength

Things will only get better in BfA because we will be joining with the Zandalari Empire. Finally, the Horde will get a powerful, established nation as a "member" - sure it has problems what with sinking into the sea and all that, but that's just a minor issue.

More seriously - burning down Teldrassil is going to cause problems. The Horde and Alliance probably would have been at peace except for the minor flashpoint in Ashenvale and, mores seriously, the Forsaken. But now we'll have burnt down Teldrassil, moved into sacred and ancestral Night Elfs lands and while the game will show us winning a lot, in "reality" all we've likely done is woken a sleeping giant. I would anticipate that the Alliance are able to secure most of the Eastern Kingdoms, but that we'll be lucky to hold the north of Kalimdor. The Night Elves have that big army in Feralas for example and I don't think they'll be too happy.

So relax...the Horde is a lot weaker than the Alliance. That's part of the fun. That's party of who we are...and with the Zandalaris joining us, we just got a good bit stronger.

The Zandalari wasnt supposed to be that powerful, the cataclysm sunked a lot of Zandalar mountains.

[Deleted]

3- WotLK the Horde side, specifically the Forsaken have a civil war, with BOTH Alliance and Horde sieging it. I think the Horde lost big time here. Since we dont know what is cannon in the Gunship battle, and even if Alliance lost it, it isnt a big deal.

Wasn't Alliance victory canon? I seem to remember that from somewhere.

[Deleted]

The Zandalari wasnt supposed to be that powerful, the cataclysm sunked a lot of Zandalar mountains.

That's at least what Zul's followers said. it seems to be in pretty good shape in BfA, the only region majorly affected by the Shattering seems to be the swamp

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Even technological development wise, they constantly mention that Gnomes are slightly more advanced than Goblins, though Goblins were definitely a huge addition to the Horde to "catch up" with the Alliance's tech.

If you want safe and reliable tech that's safe for the environment, Gnomes have the edge. If all you care about is fast production and blowing stuff (hopefully the other side's stuff) up, Goblins are fine. But then there's Draenei, who have superior tech to either of them.

- - - Updated - - -

Power Position: Horde now have the entirety of Druidic Power locations in their grasp.

Umm... Horde druids always had druidic power locations in their grasp? Because the Cenarion Circle is neutral? Unless the Horde is declaring war on druids now, in which case some Tauren and Trolls have decisions to make.

- - - Updated - - -

The way I see it, the only thing that makes up for the weakened horde right now is the zandalari. A strong empire with an awesome military is a huge boon.

Remember, back during isle of thunder only a small faction of zandalari were opposing us, imagine the full might of their empire.

The Zandalari empire was second only to Azshara's Night Elf civilization in it's time. We will see the return of Azshara as well this xpac, but she won't be available as an allied race.