Should Alex Jones be held criminally liable?

[zorkuus]

The left have created Alex Jones

I don't follow you. The left aren't the ones who watch him.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

I'm not sure, I only know him from the memes.

How bad do his show get? Does he venture into Libel and Slander?

Or does he just hurt your feelings?

It's a slippery slope, if you start taking out Alex Jones and his ilk then you need to go for the Rachel Maddows and Keith Olbermans too for their crazy Russia story.

[Orbitus]

I'm not sure, I only know him from the memes.

How bad do his show get? Does he venture into Libel and Slander?

Or does he just hurt your feelings?

It's a slippery slope, if you start taking out Alex Jones and his ilk then you need to go for the Rachel Maddows and Keith Olbermans too for their crazy Russia story.

Sorry, but the "crazy Russia story" actually has evidence to support it. Anything Alex Jones talks about usually doesn't.

[Donald Hellscream]

No I don't think he should, the guy is clearly at the very least delusional and completely insane at worst but his insane incoherent ramblings are still just him exercising his free speech.

[Emode]

I don't follow you. The left aren't the ones who watch him.

The left lose their shit about him, which means anyone with a sense or rebellion will flock to him. Like Milo etc.

[noidentity]

Anyone who watches Alex Jones is a brainwashed idiot. I don't want him accountable, I want him to continue spewing his bullshit. It makes it that much easier to spot the morons in society.

Except those morons are also a problem since they are also very vocal.

'I hope someone truly shoots you': online conspiracy theorists harass Vegas victims

Braden Matejka survived a bullet to the head in the Las Vegas massacre. Then, the death threats started coming.

“You are a lying piece of shit and I hope someone truly shoots you in the head,” a commenter wrote to Matejka on Facebook, one week after a gunman killed 58 people and injured hundreds more. “Your soul is disgusting and dark! You will pay for the consequences!” said another. A Facebook meme quickly spread with a photo of him after the shooting, captioned: “I’m a lying cunt!”

The 30-year-old victim – who narrowly escaped death in the worst mass shooting in modern US history – has faced a torrent of online abuse and harassment, forcing him to shut down his social media accounts and disappear from the internet. The bullying, taunting and graphic threats have also spread to his family and friends.

“There are all these families dealing with likely the most horrific thing they’ll ever experience, and they are also met with hate and anger and are being attacked online about being a part of some conspiracy,” said Taylor Matejka, Braden’s brother, who shared with the Guardian dozens of screenshots of the abuse. “It’s madness. I can’t imagine the thought process of these people. Do they know that we are actual people?”

Conspiracy theorists – some of whom claim that the government staged the shooting on 1 October or that the tragedy was a hoax – have targeted survivors and victims’ loved ones, spamming every social media platform with misinformation and abuse. On Facebook and YouTube in particular, users have published viral posts and videos calling people like Braden “crisis actors”, alleging they were hired to pose as victims.

While fringe conspiracies have often emerged after national tragedies and major historical events, social media has dramatically expanded the scope and scale of the problem, making it easy for false claims to reach massive audiences and giving trolls easy access to targets online.

“It makes you angry,” said Rob McIntosh, 52, who was shot in the chest and arm in Las Vegas and has since been accused of being an actor who faked his injuries. “You’ve already been through something that’s traumatic and terrible, and you have someone who is attacking your honesty. You don’t even have the opportunity to respond.”

‘I hope someone comes after you’
Braden Matejka, from British Columbia, Canada, traveled to Las Vegas with his girlfriend, Amanda Homulos, to celebrate his 30th birthday at a country music festival. Police say the gunman, Stephen Paddock, whose motives remain unknown, fired into the crowd of people at the outdoor concert from a 32nd floor room of the Mandalay Bay hotel.

As the couple was fleeing, Braden was knocked down by a bullet in the back of his head, landing on his face. He was covered in blood, but remained responsive, and he and his girlfriend, who was not hit, quickly made it inside the car of another concertgoer, who drove them to a hospital.

The wound to his skull was not life-threatening, and days later, the couple gave an emotional interview on camera to the Associated Press about their escape.

“I’m just so grateful that we’re still here, and I can’t even express how sorry I am for people that didn’t make it out,” Homulos said through sobs. In another video interview, published by the Guardian and other news organizations, Braden explained that the bullet was very close to killing him: “If it was an inch over … it would’ve been in my brain, and I would’ve been gone.”


'If it was an inch over I would have been gone': Las Vegas survivor recounts being shot – video
His brother Taylor and others began promoting on Facebook a GoFundMe campaign to help raise money for Braden, who was suffering from bleeding and swelling in his brain and blurred vision. The heavy duty mechanic and welder also had to take time off work.

Friends and relatives posted messages of love and support in response. But soon, the nasty messages began to arrive, with strangers sending comments at such a rapid rate that it was hard for the family to keep up.

“Obviously a TERRIBLE CRISIS ACTOR,” wrote a Facebook user named Samantha. “HE’S SCAMMING THE PUBLIC … This was a government set up.”

“YOUR A LIAR AND THEFT PIECE OF CRAP [sic],” wrote Karen.

“You’ll pay on the other side,” said a user named Mach. Others called Braden a “LYING BASTARD”, “scumbag govt actor” and “fuckin FRAUD”, while one user named Josh wrote: “I hope someone comes after you and literally beats the living fuck outa you.”

Taylor, 28, recalled: “I was just blown away by what these people were saying.”

One woman posted 26 consecutive messages under Taylor’s request for donations for his brother, saying she had been a nurse for more than two decades and that she was certain Braden was a liar and con artist.

Braden tried to defend himself, but eventually gave up and deleted his Facebook and Instagram accounts. Some said the decision was further evidence that he was part of a government-organized hoax – a staged fake shooting meant to help push gun control policies.


Taylor said he tried to respond to the conspiracy theorists, but nothing seemed to work: “I’d be happy to talk to these people, but it seems there’s no reasoning. A really sad part of this is that a lot of these people think they’re fighting the good fight and exposing truth.”

By some measures, YouTube seems to be making the problem worse. This week, a search for “Braden Matejka” on the Google-owned video platform suggested a video titled “How To Spot Crisis Actors & Fakest News Ever” as one of the top results. That’s despite the fact that YouTube said it was immediately changing its algorithm to better promote legitimate sources after Las Vegas victims criticized the site for spreading conspiracies.

Mike Cronk, another Las Vegas survivor, was also widely targeted by conspiracy theorists after he did interviews with ABC and NBC news stations. So many users on YouTube have published videos calling him a fake that a search for his name autocompleted to “Mike Cronk crisis actor” and “Mike Cronk fake”. The top three search results for “Mike Cronk Las Vegas” were conspiracy videos, promoted higher than the ABC News segment.


McIntosh, Cronk’s friend who is slowly recovering from his bullet wounds, said the websites bore some responsibility. “If they’re putting it online and promoting it, they should be accountable for that. They are providing a service … they need to police it.”

Taylor said he recognized that it was difficult for social media sites to monitor and censor content, but that at the least, they should should prioritize verified news sources above false content: “People should be able to discover the truth first.”

After the Guardian inquired about specific videos attacking survivors, YouTube took down one of them targeting Braden Matejka for violating its “harassment and bullying” policy, but did not remove the others.

“We work to quickly remove videos violating our policies when they are flagged,” a spokesperson said in an email.

Taylor Matejka said he tried to laugh off the conspiracy theorists targeting his family, but given the killings in Las Vegas, it was hard to ignore the death threats.

“If you want to spend your whole life searching conspiracies on the internet, you’re free to do that,” he said, “but it shouldn’t come at a cost to the victim’s wellbeing.”

[Kujako]

Someone doesn't know what 7% chance means. Shame, particularly coming from a WoW player.

Are you kidding? How many times have statements like "with a 1% drop I should be guaranteed to get it after 100 tries!" been posted to WoW forums?

[Machismo]

Except those morons are also a problem since they are also very vocal.

'I hope someone truly shoots you': online conspiracy theorists harass Vegas victims

Let them be vocal, I want everyone to know exactly who the ignorant morons are who buy into that bullshit.

[zorkuus]

The left lose their shit about him

Not really. (We) don't really keep up with his shenanigans all that often, which I'm sure are a daily occurance.

[EverDash]

This isn't them looking for the odds. This is them polling people. Do you know what polling and the election have in common? They both ask people what they think.

Right. They polled people. And they posted other people's opinions. So how is that lying?

"Massive popular vote count" It wasn't massive. 3 million out of about 139 million Americans is small.

Over 3 million votes is the largest popular voting in an electoral loss in history.

When you say someone is going to win a fight and they lose. You're dead fucking wrong. What sort of fucked up logic are you trying to spin here?

Correct. But that's not what happened at all.

Showing the odds of someone winning is different from saying they will win. How do you not understand the difference?

Put it this way for you: When you loot a boss and there's a 1% chance you get a legendary... and you loot a legendary... was Blizzard wrong? No. You just hit that 1%. And no one lied. Exact same principle here. Trump had a 7% chance of winning... and he won. No one was wrong, and no one lied.

These are concepts you learn in 5th grade, man.

[Elim Garak]

Right. They polled people. And they posted other people's opinions. So how is that lying?

That's not what happened at all. They didn't say "that's what people we asked think". They called it their "forecast" and "chance to win". That's manipulation of data presentation with a specific goal - lying. There's an abyss of difference between "a poll" and "forecast of chance to win". Please don't even try to tell me they didn't believe that Hillary was going to win the election...

[EverDash]

That's not what happened at all. They didn't say "that's what people we asked think". They called it their "forecast" and "chance to win". That's manipulation of data presentation with a specific goal - lying. There's an abyss of difference between "a poll" and "forecast of chance to win". Please don't even try to tell me they didn't believe that Hillary was going to win the election...

No. You're only relaying half of the context.

They said, "This is our forecast and each candidates chances of winning... based on the polls of what other people have told us." You're leaving out that last part. That isn't manipulation. That's relaying data from multiple sources and broadcasting it. It's been done that way for decades, for each and every President, Governor, Congressman, elected official, sports team, boxer, horse race, etc.

And of course they believed Hillary was going to win. Everyone did. Even Trump voters. If they were so sure he was going to win, none of them would have watched the television for hours that night for every result. It would have been akin to a sunrise. But it wasn't. Everything is up in the air, and even a 1% chance leaves a window open for a different result to happen. That's what we call "upsets", and it happens in every facet of our lives. It doesn't mean anyone lied. It doesn't even mean they were wrong.

A perfect example that I used with someone else: If I down Mythic KJ right now and you held a gun to my head and asked me what my chances are that a Legendary item would drop, I'd tell you 1%... and I'd tell you I don't think it's going to happen (based on all the data I'm aware of and on what everyone else has told me and shown me).

And if, when I killed KJ, that exact Legendary dropped and went into my bags, that wouldn't make me a liar; It would make me lucky. But not a liar.

This is a very basic concept and it's a shame you haven't grasped it yet at your age.

[Elim Garak]

No. You're only relaying half of the context.

They said, "This is our forecast and each candidates chances of winning.... based on the polls of what other people have said."

Stop lying. The twitter post is on the first page for anyone to see the contents of it.

[Synros]

Should Alex Jones be held criminally liable?

Along with Infowars, Breitbart and other news Media outlets when it’s proven they knowingly gave false information to the public lied about the nature of events or completely made something up. If said information is being misrepresented and it causes real serious harm should those who knew this face criminal charges?

If that's the case, we should also hold CNN, MSNBC, BBC, CBC, Slate, HuffPost, Vice, Salon, etc, criminally liable too. We wouldn't want to be hypocrites now, would we?...

[Doctor Amadeus]

If that's the case, we should also hold CNN, MSNBC, BBC, CBC, Slate, HuffPost, Vice, Salon, etc, criminally liable too. We wouldn't want to be hypocrites now, would we?...

We do and if it is your contention we don't then alright yes, we should, but there is a huge difference in getting information wrong and making shit completely up willfully as Alex Jones does.

[Powerogue]

Being wrong isn’t the same thing as knowingly telling a lie.

I've been trying for years and I can't tell the difference. Habitual liars are capable of convincing themselves of their own lies; it's how they fool lie detector tests.

[Synros]

We do and if it is your contention we don't then alright yes, we should, but there is a huge difference in getting information wrong and making shit completely up willfully as Alex Jones does.

The problem is that MSM "getting the info wrong" is often done on purpose, so they can steer the narrative in the direction they want. It's all calculated. This has been public knowledge for months now, ever since several high-ranking people at CNN were caught on video admitting that the Trump/Russia story was deliberated fabricated for ratings and to distract from the Hillary email/ DNC election rigging scandals. Then there's all the times they've been caught staging news: like Anti-ISIS Muslim protests, refugees "drowning" in 3 feet of war, that little Syrian girl who shows up in photo ops every few months, reporters pretending to be in War Zones when they're really just in front of a green screen, etc. There's a massive double standard between "MSM" and "Independent Media". MSM is NOT held to the same standards. The people running these multi-million dollar news companies know this, and have clearly been taking advantage of that. Now don't get me wrong, I think Alex Jones is a fucking moron. Yes, he's done some actual reporting before (I believe he was the one who broke that the Gulf of Tonkin was a US false flag to get into the Vietnam War, and the Bohemian Grove video was interesting), but his baseless conspiracy theories and blatant lies about the Vegas Shooting were absolutely disgusting. But at the end of the day, MSM get's all the perks of 'Freedom of the Press' while not being held to any journalistic standards or ethics.

[Doctor Amadeus]

The problem is that MSM "getting the info wrong" is often done on purpose, so they can steer the narrative in the direction they want. It's all calculated. This has been public knowledge for months now, ever since several high-ranking people at CNN were caught on video admitting that the Trump/Russia story was deliberated fabricated for ratings and to distract from the Hillary email/ DNC election rigging scandals. Then there's all the times they've been caught staging news: like Anti-ISIS Muslim protests, refugees "drowning" in 3 feet of war, that little Syrian girl who shows up in photo ops every few months, reporters pretending to be in War Zones when they're really just in front of a green screen, etc. There's a massive double standard between "MSM" and "Independent Media". MSM is NOT held to the same standards. The people running these multi-million dollar news companies know this, and have clearly been taking advantage of that. Now don't get me wrong, I think Alex Jones is a fucking moron. Yes, he's done some actual reporting before (I believe he was the one who broke that the Gulf of Tonkin was a US false flag to get into the Vietnam War, and the Bohemian Grove video was interesting), but his baseless conspiracy theories and blatant lies about the Vegas Shooting were absolutely disgusting. But at the end of the day, MSM get's all the perks of 'Freedom of the Press' while not being held to any journalistic standards or ethics.

That is an accusation made up by people that have a long history of making bullshit up, but if it's true for anyone the penalty should be same.

[Synros]

That is an accusation made up by people that have a long history of making bullshit up, but if it's true for anyone the penalty should be same.

An accusation that has video evidence to back it up. You're clearly in denial of reality, and it's actually pretty pathetic...

[Doctor Amadeus]

An accusation that has video evidence to back it up. You're clearly in denial of reality, and it's actually pretty pathetic...

Are you just reacting or are you trying to say something.