Open letter from a private server developer: an interesting POV on what could happen

[Lane]

I don't know how anyone can say the old honor system wasn't bad unless they got carried through the ranks.

[Gavan]

Good read.

I think a lot of folks mis-interpret what many people are talking about when the "QOL" discussion comes up. The late cycle gear is a good example of things that need to be left out to insure that progression actually happens.

I also like how you've outlined some of the security problems, I've had discussions with others on that only to be shot down....


I really think that we're going to be looking at a remastered version, as close to classic as they can get. I think there are purists and haters who will scream at anything that isn't a 1.12 equal that they see on a BlizLike PS though. The purists for their own reasons and the haters because they are convinced and emotionally invested in that version failing.

I really don't care personally, I just want things like what you outlined fixed. If the game has all the extra features, etc. in it, so be it. I just want the classic abilities, talent trees, and mechanics back. Cata and MoP really destroyed the game for me....... If this version of Classic has pet battles, who cares, as long as the game plays like it did in 2004-2006.


Oh, and don't fool yourself. A full server PVPing with the Classic honor system sucked.... hard......... That should get an overhaul, there's nothing good about a system that only rewards people who have their account running BGs 24/7.

[Deficineiron]

This is an interesting letter. I found the original and read other comments by the author.

In short, if blizz does decide to integrate this into the current game engine (and I see no reason to doubt this, they are concerned about things as simple as making sure everyone can play versions with a single executable to click, for example), then it means all the qol stuff many hope to get away from will already be right there and easily implemented - raid and dungeon difficulties, dungeon/raid finder, tokens, pet battles, to name a few. Heck, maybe classic 'needs' order halls/garrisons to send out followers on missions?? The temptation will be irresistible to improve the game (and in theory, revenues) by adding any number of the features which helped gut the game experience for many players.

Since the whole nost business last year I have been worried about blizzard deciding to make alleged classic servers but actually making the modern game on a classic skin, which I call the Frankenstein server scenario. I will be amazed if what is released is tuned/paced for classic players rather than their retail base. I expect LFR/LFD and Achievements at a minimum. Blue gold selling and instant 60's for sale are inevitable, though probably not right out of the gate. maybe they will wait a year for that.

That said, they know that this isn't what they need to be saying publicly, so I expect the tone of comments on it to imply that they are recreating classic, without getting into details like relative character/mob power at level, for example.

I don't believe Activision-Blizzard can release a game that isn't designed so that everyone can see all of the content with only a modest time investment. The modern accessibility view on classic wow is nearly the antithesis of what Blizzard has become since the merger.

[Mahourai]

I expect LFR/LFD and Achievements at a minimum.

One of the only spelled out design goals, by J. Allen Brack, is that Classic WoW will not have LFR or LFD.

[thunterman]

J Allen Brack was quoted in an interview saying they are testing a Nostalrius build internally. He also said they are in regular contact. At this point, it's pretty much confirmed that Nostalrius is just being made official - which is probably the best thing to do.

The unofficial servers were clearly a huge factor in Blizzard's decision to return to vanilla WOW. Am I right in thinking the Nostalrius team provided you with access to their build at some point?
J. Allen Brack: Yeah, they did. We did a dungeon run with some of the folks, it was an old school Scholomance run. It was interesting.

Source

And ofcourse, to add my 2 cents, I think like for like textures should be moved over. Character models, building models, ground textures e.t.c

I'm a graphics whore, I can bring myself to live with the cancerous gameplay of Vanilla, but I don't think I can handle the horrendous graphics.

[garicasha]

I’m pretty sure by the end of vanilla on high pop servers there were 3-4 Rank 14s at a time.

Still crazy hard to get, though.

[Kuntantee]

The technical side he put forth is non problem. Packet structure mismatching is a very easy problem to solve. They can either push for a more generalized solution, or simply just use Vanilla server for server-side computation.

[Flowsion]

This is a good thread, but I think some people are thinking too far towards the extremes. I think its ridiculous to even consider Blizzard would add things like LFR, Tokens or group finder to vanilla. They have already stated they are working to build the most authentic vanilla experience possible.

However, I also think it's ridiculous to think Blizzard would consider using their old clients in an official release. From a technical point of view, it would make sense to me that they build a 'classic mode' from the current live client. Why build up from a 13 year old client when they can build down from their live client?

https://careers.blizzard.com/en-gb/openings/o1Nc6fwQ

"Responsibilities include building gameplay systems, transforming database data, building UI elements, repackaging binary distributions, and working closely with designers to revive the classic game elements."

They are most likely merging the old vanilla client into the live client with all their current security features, protections, and compatibilities (obfuscation, modern anticheat, hardware support etc.). I don't think this will mean that we will be playing a game that looks closer to live than vanilla though - I'm confident they can make it 'appear' almost exactly the same as original vanilla.

[Willhouse]

He is criminal that used others intellectual property to benefit from.Its like quoting Hitler.

[Mahourai]

I think its ridiculous to even consider Blizzard would add things like ... group finder to vanilla.

The funny thing about this is that automated matchmaking for dungeon groups existed in Vanilla, it just had a crucial flaw that made it useless - it didn't prioritize forming viable groups.

[grexly75]

These are the kinds of things we've been saying in response ever since this began.
But everyone is convinced any 10 year old could do this easily in a day.
And not just for classic WoW servers/clients but for gaming in general.

Any time someone thinks a change MUST BE DONE. It's always "super simple",
but the reality is, it isn't. Creating games is very complex.
Especially trying to revive a very old client like this amidst their current infrastructure.

This is always the problem when you get the armchair developers, who think they know everything and think that creating a game is as simple as washing ones hands, when in all reality it isn't..

And OT; Very excellent read as it does go to show what hurdles Blizzard will have in trying to get this going properly..

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

See, it's things like this that people like me, and many others, have been saying need to be taken account of. Of course, we are just ignored because we are unlikely to play and thus our opinons are completely invalid, but they are very real issues that would take place if servers started at 1.12.

Damn, I'd completely forgotten that I got a massively overpowered PvP weapon for not much effort in that patch.

[Ferocity]

They are most likely merging the old vanilla client into the live client with all their current security features, protections, and compatibilities (obfuscation, modern anticheat, hardware support etc.). I don't think this will mean that we will be playing a game that looks closer to live than vanilla though - I'm confident they can make it 'appear' almost exactly the same as original vanilla.

Old client was based on MPQs, new client is based on CASC - and it is a world of differences between those two. If they are going to make Classic WoW CASC-based, I am out of it.

And again, people make it sound so hard. Thankfully there are people who played private servers and some people, like me, also contributed to make some of server software as Blizz-like as possible.

It would be interesting to read any real blue posts on this. If they are truly going to use new WoW client for Classic then a lot of people are going to be very disappointed.

[vsb]

As I'm thinking more about it, improving old client/server software might be the way to go. Yes, it was optimized for old computers, but modern computers are so powerful, it doesn't matter. Yes, they need to update it to work on new Windows, but it's not a hard problem. Yes, they'll have tons of exploits which were fixed since, but backporting bugfixes is not a big issue as well, many software companies maintain huge software bases fixed on a specific version for decades. Yes, battle.net integration is missing, but do we really need it? It wasn't in vanilla anyway.

So I think's very possible that we'll get truly vanilla wow with bugfixes and balance updates (like removing aforementioned catch-up gear).

[Flowsion]

Old client was based on MPQs, new client is based on CASC - and it is a world of differences between those two. If they are going to make Classic WoW CASC-based, I am out of it.

Elaborate? Why does the fact that they use a different file system now make any difference? I see no issue if nothing looks different on the surface.

Using the old client just seems counter productive. It would be a huge step backwards to manage 2 entirely separate codebases when they are more than likely capable of moving all the old textures, graphics, logic etc. to their modern infrastructure.

[Ferocity]

Elaborate? Why does the fact that they use a different file system now make any difference? I see no issue if nothing looks different on the surface.

Using the old client just seems counter productive. It would be a huge step backwards to manage 2 entirely separate codebases when they are more than likely capable of moving all the old textures, graphics, logic etc. to their modern infrastructure.

1. Old file system allowed for some cosmetic modding for those who are into it.
2. CASC is too aggressive for data disks.
3. Current WoW client would mean much higher system requirements for playing than they were in time when Classic was current.

And using old client would also assume using old APIs and that you could load any of old addons and they would work.

There is more to that, but that's just the first few things which come to the mind.

[Deleted]

1. Old file system allowed for some cosmetic modding for those who are into it.

Such as changing Rich Thorium Vein model into Ragnaros?
Vanilla economy is also an interesting subject. Everyone will be dirt poor and wealth must be generated through manual labour. Would using old tech allow bots more easily than modern?

[Flowsion]

1. Old file system allowed for some cosmetic modding for those who are into it.

Against ToS anyway (and was in vanilla)

2. CASC is too aggressive for data disks.
3. Current WoW client would mean much higher system requirements for playing than they were in time when Classic was current.

Not really sure about these two points, what do you mean by 'too aggressive for data disks'? Legion runs fine on most standard PC's today which would be loading substantially more assets than vanilla.

Are you planning to play vanilla on a 2005 PC or something? Could briefly be fun to relive the experience on a classic machine, but obviously you wouldn't base development around it.

[Ferocity]

Such as changing Rich Thorium Vein model into Ragnaros?
Vanilla economy is also an interesting subject. Everyone will be dirt poor and wealth must be generated through manual labour. Would using old tech allow bots more easily than modern?

Rich Thorium Vein into Ragnaros, change sound files into what you want, etc. It will also be a great thing for those who want new graphics in old client, as I am sure there will be cosmetic pack made shortly after Classic release if we are speaking about mpqs.

Automated bots existed on retail too when I played last time, and much more elaborated than in Classic/TBC/WotLK. New bots are even capable of tanking instances and doing this quite well.

Also sometimes there was a shortage of some mats on AH, like lotus for flasks, etc. Bots were potentially helping with this shortage and they were keeping prices down at appropriate levels.

It isn't like I defend bots, I don't like them, but bots will always exist.

- - - Updated - - -

Are you planning to play vanilla on a 2005 PC or something? Could briefly be fun to relive the experience on a classic machine, but obviously you wouldn't base development around it.

No. But for once, I'd like to play WoW without much fps drops.... It also matters a lot when you multibox.

[Deleted]

Yeah OK, I found the source, that's what I thought. The guy's not the lead dev of his project, but these guys know what they're talking about, so it's definitely something worth taking into account.