It feels like the Forsaken and Belfs do not belong to the Horde

[madokbro]

I never understand why the Horde has to have a single, homogenous concept going on for them. Why not take such alliances as allegories to their real world inspirations. As a band of misfits and outcasts, the Horde could safely resemble the Saadabad Pact and the new power bloc it almost kickstarted, for example.

I mean, having dialogue, kinship and hegemonic relations of power between Elves and Orcs is what separates the Horde from their more boring, predictable counterparts in fantasy literature.

That's what your complaint would get us if it were ever realized, generic and predictable. No thank you. You are building a story, not a kids' lego set.

[Broken Fox]

Well it's kind of a problematic thing, in my mind Horde is something primal, feral, tribal and maybe even monstrous in part.

But that's a misconception on your part cause that's not all they are

[madokbro]

But that's a misconception on your part cause that's not all they are

People love their generic, uninspired fantasy tropes, and then wonder why hardly any undergraduate program studies such literature anymore.

[Deleted]

I never understand why the Horde has to have a single, homogenous concept going on for them. Why not take such alliances as allegories to their real world inspirations. As a band of misfits and outcasts, the Horde could safely resemble the Saadabad Pact and the new power bloc it almost kickstarted, for example.

I mean, having dialogue, kinship and hegemonic relations of power between Elves and Orcs is what separates the Horde from their more boring, predictable counterparts in fantasy literature.

That's what your complaint would get us if it were ever realized, generic and predictable. No thank you. You are building a story, not a kids' lego set.

This. Part of the reason I love playing Horde is the variation of races and culture. Orcs and elves working side by side against a common enemy. It's a more interesting concept than elves banding into their own faction, or the Horde being composed of primarily 'savage' races. They're all in it together. Besides, the Forsaken and Blood Elves fit in far more with the Horde than with the Alliance, IMO - but I guess the whole point of all of the Horde races is that they don't fit in, and that's exactly why they're allied.

[Priestiality]

The whole point of the Horde is they're the misfit races. The only Horde race Alliance members didn't actively try to genocide was the Tauren, but then only the Night Elves even knew they existed, and they were neutral to each other because druidism. The will to survive is what binds them, and sometimes that's enough.

[Gaidax]

But that's a misconception on your part cause that's not all they are

Yeah?

Chris Metzen on Blood Elves in Horde:

"I'm trying to think of Horde races. I guess only blood elves feel like the odd man out for the Horde. I hope that we've engineered that into it as deftly as we could, but you know, it's the equivalent of a bunch of white chicks hanging out with goblin or tauren. It's weird."

Link: https://www.engadget.com/2012/03/19/...zen-interview/

It's no misconception - even Metzen himself says it's weird, guess he has no clue either?

[Deleted]

Yeah?

Chris Metzen on Blood Elves in Horde:

"I'm trying to think of Horde races. I guess only blood elves feel like the odd man out for the Horde. I hope that we've engineered that into it as deftly as we could, but you know, it's the equivalent of a bunch of white chicks hanging out with goblin or tauren. It's weird."

Link: https://www.engadget.com/2012/03/19/...zen-interview/

It's no misconception - even Metzen himself says it's weird, guess he has no clue either?

And he was right there, blood elves being horde was a case of gameplay > lore.
By the end of vanilla, factions were around (IIRC) 8A-2H to 9A-1H in extreme cases. Adding another pretty race to the alliance and something like ogres/forest trolls to horde would have pushed it to the point only bleeding edge dragonslayers would play horde.

[Arrashi]

This thread is so early tbc.

[Gaidax]

And he was right there, blood elves being horde was a case of gameplay > lore.
By the end of vanilla, factions were around (IIRC) 8A-2H to 9A-1H in extreme cases. Adding another pretty race to the alliance and something like ogres/forest trolls to horde would have pushed it to the point only bleeding edge dragonslayers would play horde.

This was in response to some fool above who posted:

People love their generic, uninspired fantasy tropes, and then wonder why hardly any undergraduate program studies such literature anymore.

Blood Elves are the odd bunch of the Horde, because they are simply not compatible thematically with Horde. It's ok to state such things because it is just that, pretending that Belves have somehow naturally integrated with Horde is laughable. Heck they almost broke away from Horde in MoP already, it's that fickle of a tie.

[Deleted]

This hit to me seeing the new cinematic ; while human, dwarves, nelves, draenei... fit perfectly well as the "good guys" and they have perfectly clear ties between eachother, seeing the orc tauren and troll in Lordaeron ruins defending a sewer made me think why? Why are these shamanistic and even druidistic tribes defending a green goo filled hellhole?

It doesn't make any sense and it never did. It's a plothole Blizz never intended to fill with some logical, coherent vison of the Horde. Sylvanas as a Warchief is beyond redemption, a cringe worthy fanservice. They may as well get a leper gnome to lead the Horde next.

[Resentless]

If you play WCIII, the night elves aren't necessarily a good fit for the Alliance either. There is a scene in which a bunch of ghouls chase down and eat a whole gaggle of alliance soldiers and Tyrande is watching from the bushes laughing at their misfortune and basically getting off to it.

Honestly, the elves almost need their own faction. They're easily the most xenophobic races in the lore, but it has been significantly downplayed since WCIII concluded and WoW began.

One of the lines the blood elf workers used to emote was "an elf would have thought of something better..!'


However, times change. Things breaking down between the horde, nelves and alliance after the battle for Mount Hyjal seemed unlikely as well, but needed to occur for WoW to take place. Sometimes stuff has to be shoehorned a little to get the gameplay rolling.

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I've always secretly wanted Forsaken shaman. With little gravestones as totems.

I never knew how badly I wanted gravestone totems wtf

[Aeula]

Blood elves and forsaken add an extra element to the Horde that keeps them from becoming entirely stagnant.

The Alliance races all slot well together, but the problem is they’re all slowly becoming carbon copies of humans or human sidekicks.

[Novara85]

If we’re going to broach this topic, let’s do it fullheartedly. At the end of WC3, the “Humans” were Stormwind, Strongarde and Arathi/Lorderon refuges, Dwarves (Bronzebeard/Wildhammer) Gnomes* (WC2) and the High Elves. Which technically left and were reborn as Blood Elves before WC3 concluded. The “Orcs” were several clans, Darkspear and Tauren. Night Elves and the Forsaken were separate factions. Night Elves joined the alliance for two reasons, they wanted the Alliance to have an elf race and the heavily Drow inspired Night Elves were more appealing than recycling the High Elves after they left. Adding the Forsaken to the Horde was an obvious balance act to give an undead option and not give up Sylvanas whom was the most developed character after Arthas and Illidan. Everything since has just been fanservice. Ultimately, in a perfect world all the elves probably should’ve been neutral and non playable but people love their elves.

[madokbro]

This was in response to some fool above who posted:

Blood Elves are the odd bunch of the Horde, because they are simply not compatible thematically with Horde. It's ok to state such things because it is just that, pretending that Belves have somehow naturally integrated with Horde is laughable. Heck they almost broke away from Horde in MoP already, it's that fickle of a tie.

Here, try again and adress the arguements this time. Don't just repeat your beliefs, so we can have a conversation:

I never understand why the Horde has to have a single, homogenous concept going on for them.

I mean, having dialogue, kinship and hegemonic relations of power between Elves and Orcs is what separates the Horde from their more boring, predictable counterparts in fantasy literature. You are building a story, not a kids' lego set.

[Skoll Shorties]

I mean, there is Lore behind why they joined the Horde and not the Alliance. Sure, yeah initially they only joined cause nobody else wanted them. But times are changing and the Horde is branching out into accepting the races it has as a family. Even if parts of that family are hard to agree with.

The Blood Elves & Forsaken are forever linked with the Horde and they're not gonna go anywhere. Might as well make them comfortable and fitting to the faction than just throw them to the side.

[Toppy]

I prefer them being them being thematically different and not like the Alliance where everyones always trying to do their best human impression.

Horde is interesting because its variety
Alliance is boring because its lack of variety.

[Lochton]

You are right with the elves, they did try and negotiate to join the Alliance before but as they are currently, they are bound to the Horde for the cause of honor and survival. The alliance wasn't able to help them when needed.

[Toppy]

Blood elves and forsaken add an extra element to the Horde that keeps them from becoming entirely stagnant.

The Alliance races all slot well together, but the problem is they’re all slowly becoming carbon copies of humans or human sidekicks.

This, the Alliance is in no way "the alliance"

Its Humans and their side kicks.

- - - Updated - - -

You are right with the elves, they did try and negotiate to join the Alliance before but as they are currently, they are bound to the Horde for the cause of honor and survival. The alliance wasn't able to help them when needed.

Alliance was sabotaging them as well.

[madokbro]

I prefer them being them being thematically different and not like the Alliance where everyones always trying to do their best human impression.

Horde is interesting because its variety
Alliance is boring because its lack of variety.

That's very true. The only peoples I can think of in the Alliance that only minimally resemble Humans are Nelves and Draenei. Then again, Nelves are "Wood Elves", traditional allies of Humans in most fantasy; and the Space Goats have no cultural traits or goals that conflict with the rest of the Alliance.

The lack of conflict is what makes the Alliance stale for me, as it stops any sort of interesting dialogue from spawning, and all relations of power are monkey see monkey do.

[Lochton]

Alliance was sabotaging them as well.

That is true.