High Elves are Blood elves

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Maybe they will have a resolution now. After all, they had to have been considered and rejected as a possible Allied race.

They cut ties with Quel'thalas because the majority of their kind imbibed fel magic for a short period out of desperation.

The High Elves couldn't be the Void Elves, because if they were then they'd be massive hypocrites and they'd devalue the sacrifice they made when they left their people. Being holier than thou was the whole point of being a High Elf. And going worse than the Blood Elves ever did...and on a permanent basis?

Now the Alliance is welcoming in a faction of Elves who indulged in void magic not out of desperation, but because they could. And these elves, because of the powers they wield, are clearly of greater use to the Alliance than the tiny number of High Elves left in the world.

If the writing is consistent, then the High Elves should cut ties with the Alliance. This doesn't mean they have nowhere to go, they can dwell in Dalaran (which is neutral again) and simply fade away there.

Maybe in a decade or two the Alliance will have a Half elf race in WoW 2 or something as a result. (There won't be any Void Elves. Those dudes are powerful but I can't see them being the beginning of any sort of new race in the Warcraft Universe long term. Maybe the beginning of the first Asylum though....)

The thing is I don't buy that all or even most the high elves are that much holier than thou. As far as we know, the elves that were exiled by Lor'themar resided in Quel'Lithien, those I definitely don't see go void, yet they are no longer with us.

Yet of all the remaining high elves in the alliance, I think they mostly stayed in there because they had already "left" during the second war. I think the main reason high elves exist in the alliance is because they already had a place there and just didn't want to return to a fallen kingdom. Overall I think it's a mix of a lot of issues, but for example, with the Silver Covenant, they are certainly more defined by their hatred for the horde than anything else at this point.

Honestly at this point any High Elf still in the alliance that would be okay with returning to the horde any any circumstance, would have already done so. Any High Elves that would rather be neutral, already are in Dalaran -and if more left over the void elf issue, they would go there-

I think that I mostly agree with you, but I don't see the High Elves that have remained on the alliance for all this time leaving over Void Elves, I just don't think the High Elves specially SC ones are that righteous, they are just self righteous. And at this point I see them more likely to go void to get back at the horde and the blood elves, than go to the horde and the blood elves because of the void.

I think that Alleria herself is kinda the barometer of this for me, I just can't much believe the remaining high elves under her sister Vereesa would shun her and her methods, and I find more likely they would become game for it, and in a more believable introduction the void elves would be the newly organized SC and blood elves exiles.

[Hablion]

Just Remember I believe it was Stated that over time the Sun Well now that it has been re ignited will purify the blood elves of their curse. Does that mean they return to being High Elf Highborne?

[Friendlyimmolation]

Just Remember I believe it was Stated that over time the Sun Well now that it has been re ignited will purify the blood elves of their curse. Does that mean they return to being High Elf Highborne?

It means they will be blood elves with blue eyes, or golden in the case of Liadrin. I honestly they are going to release that with the "updated customization" they talked about.

[Obelisk Kai]

I think that I mostly agree with you, but I don't see the High Elves that have remained on the alliance for all this time leaving over Void Elves, I just don't think the High Elves specially SC ones are that righteous, they are just self righteous. And at this point I see them more likely to go void to get back at the horde and the blood elves, than go to the horde and the blood elves because of the void.

I think that Alleria herself is kinda the barometer of this for me, I just can't much believe the remaining high elves under her sister Vereesa would shun her and her methods, and I find more likely they would become game for it, and in a more believable introduction the void elves would be the newly organized SC and blood elves exiles.

I see where you are coming from but I have to disagree.

Vereesa is not a good barometer of High Elf feeling. Yes, she leads the few of them that are left but she was always seriously considering abandoning them to join the Horde during the events of War Crimes. Did she relent? Yes, but she still considered it and almost, almost went through with it.

Secondly, Vereesa's fate is up in the air right now. Some people believe she will not survive the opening skirmishes of the War. I think she will, but there is a possibility she won't.

Thirdly, Alleria is a respected war hero in both the Alliance in the Kingdom of Quel'thalas. It's why I expect she was allowed to return to Silvermoon when she attempted to win them back over to the Alliance. Alleria for all we know could have tried to tempt the Blood Elves with the secrets of the void, yet the void is so extreme even the Blood Elves rejected it's use.

Fourthly, as I stated, the whole point of the High Elves is that they would not consume fel magic to sustain themselves. Think about what that means in practice. It was the only available source of magic for their people to consume at the time. The few children we see in Silvermoon have green eyes, meaning they have imbibed fel magic. it was also stated that the first victims of withdrawal were the very young and the very old. The High Elves were so committed to NOT using fel magic that they must have been prepared to allow the children of Silvermoon to perish rather than use fel magic as substitute sustenance. That is the level of zealotry you are dealing with with the few High Elves who did not remain with Silvermoon.

If these people were willing to let the Kids die in the name of a higher purpose, I can't imagine being overly thrilled to see a bunch of Void infused crackpots who were on the verge of madness mere days earlier being welcomed into the Alliance.

That's why whenever Void Elves were announced and we all though Alleria had gone first to the High Elves of Dalaran with this technique, many of us found it hysterical that would turn out to be such massive hypocrites. In hindsight it didn't make sense, but we just put it down to desperation and/or some sloppy writing on the part of Blizzard. Them being disgraced actually makes a lot more sense.

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It means they will be blood elves with blue eyes, or golden in the case of Liadrin. I honestly they are going to release that with the "updated customization" they talked about.

I am looking forward to this 'updated customization'. I wonder what it means. Will we be able to have super skinny male blood elves such as the models that were on show early in TBC (such a frame would make more sense for my frail Blood Elf Mage). If we get the option to change eye colour, and I hope we will, we should have shades of blue (because we are High Elves), green (because we are also blood elves) and yellow (because the sunwell is now a fount of light and if taking in fel magic turns the eyes green, exposure to holy magic should make them yellow).

Also, has anyone else noticed that on the few Void Elves we have seen the hair styles don't match any existing Blood Elf hairstyles?

The void elf male on the website is sporting a very short hair cut that is not available to the Blood Elves and the female hairstyle, while similar to some options, doesn't match any one currently available exactly. Does this mean we are getting new hairstyles?

Or (hopefully ) that the Void Elves are ignoring the long flowing hair styles of the Blood Elves in favour of a more severe look of their very own?

You know, following that idea to it's logical conclusion, remember how some of those High Elf fans said that blizz could change the look of the race by adding a different idle pose and different casting animations and a different voice? At the time we scoffed at the notion as being dumb...and for a carbon copy it would be.

But for this twist, maybe we can hope that the Void Elves have a unique voice (they will), unique casting animations and unique poses. It's not much, but anything to move the Void Elves further away from the Blood Elf should be encouraged.

[Friendlyimmolation]

The hair looks like Rommaths with the tail cut off.

[Obelisk Kai]

The hair looks like Rommaths with the tail cut off.

Exactly, it's unique.

Hopefully it stays unique for them. They can have their hairstyles and we can have ours.

[Elegiac]

Exactly, it's unique.

Hopefully it stays unique for them. They can have their hairstyles and we can have ours.

Or they can both get it so players can play what they like as opposed to some arbitrary standards imposed by people who take Blizzard's shitty opinions as the word of god.

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But they DID alter the High Elf to be more visually distinct. They gave it darker skin tones and a tendency to float and use shadowy magic.

And it's still not good enough.

Primarily because the 'darker skin tones and tendency to float and use shadowy magic' is contrary to what High Elves represent as a race for the people that want to play them.

There is no legitimate reason why High Elves should not be a playable subrace, aside from the fact that Blizzard hates its players and thinks it knows what they want better than the players themselves.

[Graden]

Exactly, it's unique.

Hopefully it stays unique for them. They can have their hairstyles and we can have ours.

They will also get unique voice/lines etc. It was confirmed in one of the interviews. I mean, it was kinda obvious, but still.
I wonder how they will sound. If they get a 'devilish' voice that sounds nothing like High/Blood Elves, I can already see a tsunami full of crying tears that will devour us all.

[Obelisk Kai]

Or they can both get it so players can play what they like as opposed to some arbitrary standards imposed by people who take Blizzard's shitty opinions as the word of god.

As far as the Warcraft universe is concerned, Blizzard is God. Your objection is therefore ridiculous.

[Elegiac]

They will also get unique voice/lines etc. It was confirmed in one of the interviews. I mean, it was kinda obvious, but still.
I wonder how they will sound. If they get a 'devilish' voice that sounds nothing like High/Blood Elves, I can already see a tsunami full of crying tears that will devour us all.

Yeah because giving people the opposite of what they've been requesting for years is such a funny thing, right?

Exactly what do you gain by being a massive dickhead?

[Obelisk Kai]

Primarily because the 'darker skin tones and tendency to float and use shadowy magic' is contrary to what High Elves represent as a race for the people that want to play them.

There is no legitimate reason why High Elves should not be a playable subrace, aside from the fact that Blizzard hates its players and thinks it knows what they want better than the players themselves.

The people who want to play a non Void Elf thalassian elf are catered for.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I see where you are coming from but I have to disagree.

Vereesa is not a good barometer of High Elf feeling. Yes, she leads the few of them that are left but she was always seriously considering abandoning them to join the Horde during the events of War Crimes. Did she relent? Yes, but she still considered it and almost, almost went through with it.

Secondly, Vereesa's fate is up in the air right now. Some people believe she will not survive the opening skirmishes of the War. I think she will, but there is a possibility she won't.

Thirdly, Alleria is a respected war hero in both the Alliance in the Kingdom of Quel'thalas. It's why I expect she was allowed to return to Silvermoon when she attempted to win them back over to the Alliance. Alleria for all we know could have tried to tempt the Blood Elves with the secrets of the void, yet the void is so extreme even the Blood Elves rejected it's use.

Fourthly, as I stated, the whole point of the High Elves is that they would not consume fel magic to sustain themselves. Think about what that means in practice. It was the only available source of magic for their people to consume at the time. The few children we see in Silvermoon have green eyes, meaning they have imbibed fel magic. it was also stated that the first victims of withdrawal were the very young and the very old. The High Elves were so committed to NOT using fel magic that they must have been prepared to allow the children of Silvermoon to perish rather than use fel magic as substitute sustenance. That is the level of zealotry you are dealing with with the few High Elves who did not remain with Silvermoon.

If these people were willing to let the Kids die in the name of a higher purpose, I can't imagine being overly thrilled to see a bunch of Void infused crackpots who were on the verge of madness mere days earlier being welcomed into the Alliance.

That's why whenever Void Elves were announced and we all though Alleria had gone first to the High Elves of Dalaran with this technique, many of us found it hysterical that would turn out to be such massive hypocrites. In hindsight it didn't make sense, but we just put it down to desperation and/or some sloppy writing on the part of Blizzard. Them being disgraced actually makes a lot more sense.

But blood elves didn't fed on the fel. The one source that mentions this moral quandary is "in the shadow of the sun" which explicitly states that it about siphoning mana from living creatures, calling it "vampiric". Fel magic was used to power up the city, and that created the background radiation that led to green eyes. And again, this was the issue of one group, we don't know if this include the High Elves that were living in alliance cities.

You are really coming out of nowhere with the "letting children die" thing. What children even, cause as far as we know, we haven't seen any elven children out of quel'thalas; as far a we know, high elves abroad didn't have children. And if they did, it was in Dalaran, where the elves in there managed to cope. And if they were any children, it would have been comparatively so much easier to "focus heal" on them rather than the dire population issue in Quel'thalas. There's little in game to suggest the high elves follow a specific ethics code, what defines them, specially the SC, is their distaste of the blood elves political alignment.

The truth is, there's not a lot of in depth analysis of the high elven stance , specially as a whole. Their more predominant group, the SC, is defined by their hatred of the horde and the blood elves who have dared to ally with them. Considering that the SC even had a Warlock Trainer, I don't think they have a particularly strong code of ethics. To me they have always been far more defined by their loyalty to the alliance, the bond and friendships made during the second war.

I just don't agree with this view that High Elves are particularly righteous or pious, I mena there would be rather a bunch of priests and paladins rather than rangers and mages, and again, that specific moralist attitude of not draining fel was only true for the Quel'Lithien elves. It feels interpretative, on both our opinions admittedly, but as conjecture goes, I really think your point is a stretch almost entirely based on one short story that explain the motivations of one group, and that was a canonized fan story.

vereesa, the mouthpiece

[Elegiac]

As far as the Warcraft universe is concerned, Blizzard is God. Your objection is therefore ridiculous.

As far as the Warcraft universe is concerned, it is first and foremost a game that is enjoyed by players; their enjoyment is the paramount concern rather than arbitrary restrictions because...'reasons'.

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The people who want to play a non Void Elf thalassian elf are catered for.

By that logic every player desire is catered for if you move the goalposts sufficiently.

You're being deliberately obtuse as to why people have been requesting High Elves for years just you can act like a smug shithead about it.

[faithbane]

Blood elves are a sub-group and faction of high-elves... High elf is the main race, blood elves are a branch of high elf, because of fel taint, which is hereditary.

Blood elves are not a sub-group or a faction. Blood elves ARE the high elves. Technically they are one and the same.

Quel'thalas was the capital of the high elves that was ruled by Kael'thas's father at the time of the third war and the scourge invasion. After Arthas was done with the place, he destroyed most of the city, killed the king and raised most of the people as undead(including sylvanas). Around 10% of all high elves were believed to have survived, under the rule of Prince Kael. He was the one who renamed his people blood elves, in honor of the fallen. At this time he was the heir to the throne, the ruler of the kingdom, before he joined Ilidan or went full retard at magister terrace soooo in fact his kingdom, his rules. There is no such thing as a high elf anymore in principle, they are all Blood elves. You can probably find the exact scene in WC3 frozen throne where Kael gives the speech to rename the people blood elves on Youtube.

- The actual/gameplay reason behind the whole Green eye thing is in truth to shut the allies that were whining that they can't get the to play high elves that they wanted since the beginning of wow but the horde was getting them! so basically tinted the eyes from white/blue to green. "Lore" reason is the high exposure to the fel. So, all the ex-high elves who are now called blood elves have green eyes because of exposure to fel energies. The green eyed elves are not a different branch of elves to the blue eyed ones that are called blood elves. I don't know where people are coming up with that?

[Graden]

Yeah because giving people the opposite of what they've been requesting for years is such a funny thing, right?

Exactly what do you gain by being a massive dickhead?

The opposite? We are getting Blood Elves in the Alliance. It doesn't matter if it is another flavor, they are High/Blood Elves. I get that you may want to play a 'pure' High Elf, but from the day Horde got Blood Elves to me it was obvious that it was never going to happen.

[Obelisk Kai]

You are really coming out of nowhere with the "letting children die" thing. What children even, cause as far as we know, we haven't seen any elven children out of quel'thalas; as far a we know, high elves abroad didn't have children. And if they did, it was in Dalaran, where the elves in there managed to cope. And if they were any children, it would have been comparatively so much easier to "focus heal" on them rather than the dire population issue in Quel'thalas. There's little in game to suggest the high elves follow a specific ethics code, what defines them, specially the SC, is their distaste of the blood elves political alignment.

The children thing is my own opinion and an example of fridge logic, I admit that. It's not explicitly stated but if High Elf children were dying around them (and it was confirmed they were) and the zealots were objecting to the use of fel magic as a solution at the time (which they were) then the logical conclusion is that the High Elf objectors were aware of these dying kids and were prepared to let them die.

But I will concede that it is conjecture, albeit well reasoned conjecture.

Still, debate on this particular tangent is probably going to be fruitless for us both. The Void Elves aren't the High Elves, and while it is arguable it would have been better had they been a straight conversion we probably still would be having the debate about playable High Elves. I know we would have, this debate was going on after the Void Elf reveal but before we knew they were former blood elves and we all assumed they were High Elves. Some people wanted High Elves anyway.

What we really should focus on is, how will the High Elves react to the Void Elves?

I think not very well at all.

[Elegiac]

The opposite? We are getting Blood Elves in the Alliance. It doesn't matter if it is another flavor, they are High/Blood Elves. I get that you may want to play a 'pure' High Elf, but from the day Horde got Blood Elves to me it was obvious that it was never going to happen.

Please learn the difference between an "is" and an "ought" argument. Moreover, that distinction in flavour is crucial.

It costs Blizzard very little and the playerbase nothing at all to give the Alliance what they've been asking for instead of a sop that reads like a bad fanfiction.

[Obelisk Kai]

As far as the Warcraft universe is concerned, it is first and foremost a game that is enjoyed by players; their enjoyment is the paramount concern rather than arbitrary restrictions because...'reasons'.

That's just code for your hope that Blizzard will ignore internal consistency completely and give you what you want.

By that logic every player desire is catered for if you move the goalposts sufficiently.

You're being deliberately obtuse as to why people have been requesting High Elves for years just you can act like a smug shithead about it.

People want High Elves because they want a pretty ass to look at without being Horde. Hardly the deepest reason. From a faction that has three (now four if you like emos) attractive races, it might be overkill.

[Elegiac]

What we really should focus on is, how will the High Elves react to the Void Elves?

I think not very well at all.

It really doesn't matter since fiction is a constructed object and the characters and races will do whatever Blizzard says they do.

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That's just code for your hope that Blizzard will ignore internal consistency completely and give you what you want.

Blizzard has no 'internal consistency', hence why WoW classic is now a thing.

People want High Elves because they want a pretty ass to look at without being Horde. Hardly the deepest reason.

It's abundantly clear from this that you just have contempt for players that want High Elves and are inventing reasons to justify being a cunt. *thumbs up*

Infracted.

[Obelisk Kai]

It really doesn't matter since fiction is a constructed object and the characters and races will do whatever Blizzard says they do.

And they went out of their way to give you a thalassian elf model. That IS an example of them stretching the lore after all to accommodate this desire. Sure, it wasn't what you wanted, but they fact they contorted the story to give you a version of that model (and not the actual model itself) should demonstrate to you they are pretty damn far from giving it to you.

In fact, considering the Alliance now has a thalassian elf model, I think it's reasonable to put the chance at about 0%.

It's abundantly clear from this that you just have contempt for players that want High Elves and are inventing reasons to justify being an asshole. *thumbs up*

I'll take no lectures on respect from someone who called the people he is debating with 'assholes' and 'dickheads'.

And no, I have never respected this childish desire from Alliance players to be able to play the Horde's most popular race without alteration. You want to play a pure Thalassian elf? You play the Horde faction.

If the Horde faction is REALLY too much to bear, then you can play the emo elves on your own side.

You want to play a pure thalassian elf on the Alliance side? You are free to wait another decade...and more because it ain't happening at this point.