Which Mage spec for Antorus?

[A dot Ham]

That's certainly an argument. Then again, it'll be a few weeks still until Antorus and I do plan to go pretty ham on the farming, with the full world tour etc. 4-5 legendaries is probably not unrealistic for a month of farming. That being said, you're absolutely right that it could be a gamble - so the question is, by how much would Fire be ahead? And why, specifically? Just the tier bonus? Stat scaling in general?

I'm starting to wonder why someone in such a BA guild who thinks they will be raiding at the highest level in less than a month... would need the opinion of MMO-C. No doubt you know what resources are available, and if you were in fact no self-sufficient enough to discover the "best" spec on your own. One would think the guild you are going to be raiding with, would be able to point you in the right direction. Especially given the fact that they are going to be carrying you for just under a month, one would think (regardless of best spec) they need you on said mage to fulfill a specific role. So why not ask them?

Or is the entire purpose of this thread to humblebrag?

[Biomega]

I'm starting to wonder why someone in such a BA guild who thinks they will be raiding at the highest level in less than a month... would need the opinion of MMO-C. No doubt you know what resources are available, and if you were in fact no self-sufficient enough to discover the "best" spec on your own. One would think the guild you are going to be raiding with, would be able to point you in the right direction. Especially given the fact that they are going to be carrying you for just under a month, one would think (regardless of best spec) they need you on said mage to fulfill a specific role. So why not ask them?

Or is the entire purpose of this thread to humblebrag?

You seem to be misunderstanding. My guild isn't WTFamazing. They're solid. We've cleared m9/9. But it took a while, we're not exceptional.

HOWEVER

ToS was a bit rough due to roster issues, and as a result it was decided that every raider needs at least one, ideally two raid-ready alts, just in case we're faced with more fights where comp can be used to significantly change the outlook of a fight during progressions (like e.g. having multiple Rogues for Avatar/KJ, where we had literal zero). Since getting to 930ish ilvl on your own is pretty trivial these days anyway, the carrying isn't a hard-carry anyway, and fits easily into our usual farm runs on main night and alt night. No guild should have much trouble with that at this point, with everyone decked out and fights nerfed.

Also, what do you mean by "discover it on your own"? Maybe you have it in you to just come up with the right solutions all by yourself, I don't. I believe that the community pooling their intellectual resources is a more accurate description of what is and what may be, and that the wisdom of crowds will be more useful than me hoping I get it right. Hence this whole discussion. I'm not looking for THE definitive answer, that would be a ludicrous expectation. It's about the discussion itself, and the viewpoints presented and defended there. I observe, participate here and there, and hopefully at the end can roughly trace the outline of what I'm looking for.

Of course, now I've made the mage and gotten Norgannon, KJBW, and Prydaz, in that order. I'm probably retiring it in favor of another alt, who had more luck with RNG. That's just how things go.

[Muddler]

Of course, now I've made the mage and gotten Norgannon, KJBW, and Prydaz, in that order. I'm probably retiring it in favor of another alt, who had more luck with RNG. That's just how things go.

Yikes. Yeah, this RNG legendary drop system is god awful. I'm so glad it's done in BFA, otherwise I would've skipped on playing it.

[Marrilaife]

Of course, now I've made the mage and gotten Norgannon, KJBW, and Prydaz, in that order. I'm probably retiring it in favor of another alt, who had more luck with RNG. That's just how things go.

RIP. That's quite the worst outcome there.

Yikes. Yeah, this RNG legendary drop system is god awful. I'm so glad it's done in BFA, otherwise I would've skipped on playing it.

Yep, I'm glad it's gone too. Can't believe they didn't bother putting any form of catch up or targetting mechanism for legendaries, even when we're in the last patch cycle of the expansion (we're only gonna get minor patches from now on until BFA). I had to reroll for TOS because my main class was considered trash, now I'm past mythic KJ and tier is about to be over, I'm still missing 2 legendaries. It just takes frigging months to get them, easily a whole raid tier.

[Biomega]

What's even worse is that some classes benefit disproportionately from specific legendaries, while others gain fairly little benefit. Fire Mage really NEEDS bracers - while BM hunter, for example, often has a BiS of Prydaz and Sephuz because they just care about stats. Sounds fair.

[fiestatastic]

Of course, now I've made the mage and gotten Norgannon, KJBW, and Prydaz, in that order. I'm probably retiring it in favor of another alt, who had more luck with RNG. That's just how things go.

Ouch. Yeah, that's done, sorry to hear that. Sucks that Legion makes the choices for us on what's going to be viable, through rng. Hope you have better luck on your other alt!

[Ambereldus]

-snip- t19 isn't mandatory for Frost -snip-

I found a more reliable source for my claim, much better than trying to claim my subjective experience as fact!
https://www.altered-time.com/forum/v...&t=4812#p39686
To summarize, t19 is a dps increase when compared to same-difficulty offpieces from Tomb, but the difference between have/have-not is minor, in the realm of 2% overall.

[Zader01]

Frost Mage is probably the way to go

[Deleted]

I found a more reliable source for my claim, much better than trying to claim my subjective experience as fact!
https://www.altered-time.com/forum/v...&t=4812#p39686
To summarize, t19 is a dps increase when compared to same-difficulty offpieces from Tomb, but the difference between have/have-not is minor, in the realm of 2% overall.

Im pretty sure they are gonna hammer down T19 and T20 bonus - it seems to be the blizzard trend, which is sad, because frost functions so much better with the 2p tier 19 bonus.

Its so sad blizzard doesnt bake the set bonus into the various classes because essentially the tier bonuses this game are a great way of fixing whats so wrong and broken with most classes. Lets face it, the legion pruning ruined most classes-

[Soulwell]

I found a more reliable source for my claim, much better than trying to claim my subjective experience as fact!
https://www.altered-time.com/forum/v...&t=4812#p39686
To summarize, t19 is a dps increase when compared to same-difficulty offpieces from Tomb, but the difference between have/have-not is minor, in the realm of 2% overall.

And just like the people there who hate using 2s who try to make it seem worse than it is. People can say it's a minimal increase but who actually wants to sit there and cast frostbolt for 45 minutes and not get a proc.
And trying to compare a difference is incredibly stupid since a 930ilvl frost Mage can have better pulls than a frost Mage at 945. The entire spec is rng why would you not use something to increase your chances of not being shit?

[Ambereldus]

That's fair, I was just trying to convince another poster that Frost isn't that bad to play if you don't have the 2p.

Yeah, there are definitely periods where I'm waiting for procs thinking "Come on...sometime today please!". However, those dry periods are a lot more rare than many people seem to claim. I've only noticed 1 or 2 in a typical 3h raid, which is much lower than what I've heard from other posters i.e. Every other pull is a dry spell.

[gallamann]

Yep, I'm glad it's gone too. Can't believe they didn't bother putting any form of catch up or targetting mechanism for legendaries, even when we're in the last patch cycle of the expansion (we're only gonna get minor patches from now on until BFA). I had to reroll for TOS because my main class was considered trash, now I'm past mythic KJ and tier is about to be over, I'm still missing 2 legendaries. It just takes frigging months to get them, easily a whole raid tier.

So happy it is gone in BFA.

I have played mage since start of expac, have every fire Legendary, every general Legendary, every frost legendary, about two weeks ago got the final frost one. Then I just was like done, didn't even have the Arcane artifact, within 10 days received two arcane legendary's. So 3 legendary's to go before I have them all and can get other classes.

BTW purposely did not get Arcane artifact before first arcane legendary to test theory you had to have artifact for a legendary to drop. Also to see if it would instead drop another class legendary

If you do all raids on heroic, clear a mythic +10 or higher, do emissary's... seems to be one every 10-14 days currently.

[Marrilaife]

If you do all raids on heroic, clear a mythic +10 or higher, do emissary's... seems to be one every 10-14 days currently.

And if you roll a fresh alt, there's like 12 of them to collect to have at least 1 spec done. If you get one per 10-14 days it's still 4-5 months to collect them. If you start now, Antorus progress will be over before you finish.

[Biomega]

And if you roll a fresh alt, there's like 12 of them to collect to have at least 1 spec done. If you get one per 10-14 days it's still 4-5 months to collect them. If you start now, Antorus progress will be over before you finish.

That's the main problem. People who stuck to one char since the beginning of the expansion don't care, they have everything. Anyone who rerolled, took a break, or just likes to play alts, however, will be stuck in no-compete land for however long it takes for RNG to decide it wants to cooperate. When it's literally more efficient to scrap a character and REROLL IT FROM SCRATCH than to hope for drops you know something is wrong.

[Soulwell]

That's fair, I was just trying to convince another poster that Frost isn't that bad to play if you don't have the 2p.

Yeah, there are definitely periods where I'm waiting for procs thinking "Come on...sometime today please!". However, those dry periods are a lot more rare than many people seem to claim. I've only noticed 1 or 2 in a typical 3h raid, which is much lower than what I've heard from other posters i.e. Every other pull is a dry spell.

Hell no that's why I quit playing frost. You'd go from an insane opener to literally getting 1 il off of orb and one from ebonbolt. Then you just sit there for what feels like days as you sling wet frosty boiis at the boss and none of them are giving you that sweet sweet release of death we call a flurry proc.
Getting half decent ranks a dependent on something you have absolutely no control over. At least with double il it was just a gear check now it's just praying to the gods for bits of snow to grace my hands.

[RobertoCarlos]

What's even worse is that some classes benefit disproportionately from specific legendaries, while others gain fairly little benefit. Fire Mage really NEEDS bracers - while BM hunter, for example, often has a BiS of Prydaz and Sephuz because they just care about stats. Sounds fair.

Well those said classes still need that legend to drop so it's 1 in 11 chance like anyone. Doesn't matter if thier bis is sephuz or sun kings bindings. Also prydaz isn't as bad as people try making it out to be

On topic I'll still rock fire for dungeons and aoe fights and use frost for single target

[OBM]

Is there a trinket tier list for next raid out yet?

[Biomega]

Well those said classes still need that legend to drop so it's 1 in 11 chance like anyone. Doesn't matter if thier bis is sephuz or sun kings bindings.

Wrong. Because for some specs, getting Leg A is a 10% dps increase (numbers for illustrative purposes only) and getting Leg B is a 1% increase; while for other specs, getting Leg A is a 5% increase and getting Leg B is a 4.5% increase, so even if you get the wrong one it's not a huge deal.

Anyway, discussing this is fairly pointless. It is what it is, and it's going away with BfA. The end. Roll the dice, accept the outcome. Curse RNGesus or praise him, whatever. There's nothing you can do other than try.

[RobertoCarlos]

Wrong. Because for some specs, getting Leg A is a 10% dps increase (numbers for illustrative purposes only) and getting Leg B is a 1% increase; while for other specs, getting Leg A is a 5% increase and getting Leg B is a 4.5% increase, so even if you get the wrong one it's not a huge deal.

Anyway, discussing this is fairly pointless. It is what it is, and it's going away with BfA. The end. Roll the dice, accept the outcome. Curse RNGesus or praise him, whatever. There's nothing you can do other than try.

Yeah but really the people that got the 5% upgrade instead of the 10% still wanted the 10% and cursed the fact they got the 5% one instead. It was shit implementation all round

[Biomega]

Yeah but really the people that got the 5% upgrade instead of the 10% still wanted the 10% and cursed the fact they got the 5% one instead. It was shit implementation all round

Well, it's understandable. If you get an item that is half as good as what you COULD have gotten, of course you're mad. These are the biggest jumps in performance there are for single loot pieces - trinkets come close, but since we have Relinquished tokens it's MUCH easier to get acceptably good trinkets. All other loot pieces are a lot closer in value.

I get that saying "you got 5 dollars instead of 10 dollars" is still getting 5 dollars - but there's also the "who has the most money" competition and going against people who did get the 10 dollars is not going to fare you well there.