Thank you Classic for saving MMORPG's......again

[Schattenlied]

Having to run back to the nearest vendor constantly because half my bag space was full of things like reagents, arrows, toys, and my mount, did not make the game more challenging. It just meant that dangit hunter this is the third time this week, refill your quiver before raiding.

I never had that problem ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Or the old AH system. No one was like "YEAAAAAAH, I'M MANUALLY SHIFT-CLICKING TO SPLIT UP MY STACKS OF PEACEBLOOM AND TYPING IN THE COST EVERY SINGLE TIME, THIS IS SO ENGAGING AND TACTICALLY SATISFYING!"

Was fixed with addons during vanilla, addons that are every bit as functional as the ones we have right now. Even now almost no one uses the default
auction house interface, because even now, 13 years later, it's still shit.

[Aydinx2]

Euuuh who said that they are not going to dumb it down...

Vanilla was broken as f*ck. They either give you a broken game...or they fix it...witch means its easy/dumbed down again....

They can "fix" it without making it more easy or dumbing it down.
Simply increasing ret paladin damage for example, or removing the 5yds ranged limit for hunters. Maybe slightly lowering the gold requirement for a respec, so that people can try out more different specs (since there is ofcourse a risk of people not liking what they've been leveling for 60 long levels. Imagine leveling a ret paladin or feral druid and finding out you're either a healer or not playing).

[Deleted]

Whether or not said carebears will be listened to, will depend on how much Blizzard wants their money.

I think the reason why Blizz are doing this is because they can see that WoW is dying, and they want to get as many old school players back as they can in order to maintain some degree of economic viability or residual income from the game. As someone who is a member of the proverbial no-life demographic myself, I appreciate that. We don't want ease or convenience in any form. We want depth, intricacy, quirks, and stuff that most people fairly simply don't like.

The QoL people either don't understand the above, or don't care; and I suspect that it's more a case of the latter. WoW was always a game that bridged the divide between the non-mainstream EQ/UO raid crowd on the one hand, and the mainstream demographic on the other; and said mainstream have always been a numerically larger group.

The thing is, that the mainstream have fickle attention spans. They don't hang around for years on end. They want to be primarily where the most people are so they can look popular, but they tend to race off after the newest shiny object. Given what said mainstream have done to WoW, I think Blizzard are finally realising that designing a game to cater to them is not economically the best strategy, over the long term.

Normal people have lives. They have families. They have careers and children and mobile phones and lots of other things which massively eat into their time. They don't want games with too much depth, because that will take too much time; time which they want to spend looking at family photos on Facebook.

Damaged, autistic, slowly aging neckbeards like me, on the other hand, don't have lives. We don't have partners or all of those other things. All we have is games like WoW, and we are prepared to offer Blizzard almost all of what little money we have on an ongoing basis, if Blizzard are willing to offer us Azeroth as a virtual nursing home.

I'm not proud. Anyone here can call me a disgusting live miscarriage of a human being, and I will agree with them. Many of us, however, are people with very little else in our lives; but we want this. We need this.

If any of the people asking for incremental changes to vanilla have any compassion, I would request that they remember the above. I'm not asking for the sort of life you've probably got. I'm not asking for a wife, or kids, or money, or any of the other things that you take for granted.

All I'm asking for is the ability to literally take the blue pill, now and unto perpetuity, and maintain contact with the single most positive thing that has ever been part of my otherwise pedestrian and redundant existence.

And you're getting classic, but don't expect it to be as popular as it was in 2004.

Also if current wow is dying (it isn't) with 5mil or how much subs it has then what will you say about classic when it doesn't even cross 1mil subs?

[Aydinx2]

Did you quote the wrong person? i said the gameplay wasn't any harder, just longer.

I have no problem with the leveling experience being longer if the leveling experiences is at least interesting.

No my point is that the leveling experience will only be long and tedious to those who want to get to max level and ignore the experience of leveling up.
I prefer the old system simply because it rewarded every level you obtained, and even if it was only +1% crit or +1% stamina, it was still a reward for your effort.
And the artifact power system is basicly the same.

[Deleted]

Also if current wow is dying (it isn't) with 5mil or how much subs it has then what will you say about classic when it doesn't even cross 1mil subs?

We don't know that yet..... but if all the players would return that played vanilla and burning crusade, classic server could have atleast 5 mil subs, add to that players that would switch from retail, and classic can own retail in a matter of weeks.

[Deleted]

No my point is that the leveling experience will only be long and tedious to those who want to get to max level and ignore the experience of leveling up.
I prefer the old system simply because it rewarded every level you obtained, and even if it was only +1% crit or +1% stamina, it was still a reward for your effort.
And the artifact power system is basicly the same.

I actually support the old talent system, i made a post the other day that i'd like to see a mesh between the old talent system and the new really.

Like i said, i'd play a classic with some QoL changes that don't effect the actual gameplay difficulty. I think classic had some good stuff and a lot of bad stuff that just made certain aspects of the game a lot more annoying and tedious than they needed to be

[tikcol]

Strange enough, every single person I ever played with, whenever any of those many changes that came over the year and changed vanilla game was announced, everyone was screaming of joy. Each and every one of those changes was met with open arms and people were genuinely happy about everything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

[Deleted]

We don't know that yet..... but if all the players would return that played vanilla and burning crusade, classic server could have atleast 5 mil subs, add to that players that would switch from retail, and classic can own retail in a matter of weeks.

Don't hold your breath.

[baskev]

They can "fix" it without making it more easy or dumbing it down.
Simply increasing ret paladin damage for example, or removing the 5yds ranged limit for hunters. Maybe slightly lowering the gold requirement for a respec, so that people can try out more different specs (since there is ofcourse a risk of people not liking what they've been leveling for 60 long levels. Imagine leveling a ret paladin or feral druid and finding out you're either a healer or not playing).

Yes they can...but will it be vanilla after that?

You see removing 1 thing from a class may need tweaks on a other class etc etc.
Do not get me wrong i hope this works for the people that want it.
I am just skeptical because class imbalance etc is just 1 thing that was broken. And somethings might be easy with x% increase/decrease into something. But somethings will effect more things then just 1 stat/boss/class.
And will it be vanilla after all that balancing?

- - - Updated - - -

I actually support the old talent system, i made a post the other day that i'd like to see a mesh between the old talent system and the new really.

Like i said, i'd play a classic with some QoL changes that don't effect the actual gameplay difficulty. I think classic had some good stuff and a lot of bad stuff that just made certain aspects of the game a lot more annoying and tedious than they needed to be

Me 2.
The half in builds .
They try to do it with talents right now...but most classes still have cookie cutter builds.

[ls-]

Thank you for bringing back hardcore MMORPG's.

DON'T LISTEN to the carebars. Don't give any QOL features or any carebear nonsense.

Hopefully future MMO's will learn and not make games as easy/dumbed down.

Mentions hardcore MMOs, talks about Classic WoW.

1/10 too casual.

[hulkgor]

I've been seeing this a lot lately and still not a single source on the actual current active players.
I'm 100% willing to believe that Legion is doing badly, but I need some proof.
I do doubt it though. I can't imagine anyone likes Cata, MoP or WoD more than Legion. We finally have a pretty big amount of PvE content to do outside of dungeons and raids, and dungeons have high-end value as at least a weekly.

I'd say the opposite though. Legion was a massive success upon launch, with huge spikes in player count, and even retention was better than WoD. It simply isn't possible to keep the entire playerbase throughout the entire expansion, and now the numbers are probably low again until next expansion.

Classic will simply pull back a number of players disappointed in the direction the game was led.

[Kithelle]

Even Vanilla wasn't hard...just had a lot of mechanics that made it slow.

[stomination]

Thank you for bringing back hardcore MMORPG's.

DON'T LISTEN to the carebars. Don't give any QOL features or any carebear nonsense.

Hopefully future MMO's will learn and not make games as easy/dumbed down.

Hard to congratulate something that hasn't happen yet.

- - - Updated - - -

Even Vanilla wasn't hard...just had a lot of mechanics that made it slow.

A lot of farming. The mechanics were simpler but seemed harder since it was a new concept.

[bash the fash]

Whether or not said carebears will be listened to, will depend on how much Blizzard wants their money.

I think the reason why Blizz are doing this is because they can see that WoW is dying, and they want to get as many old school players back as they can in order to maintain some degree of economic viability or residual income from the game. As someone who is a member of the proverbial no-life demographic myself, I appreciate that. We don't want ease or convenience in any form. We want depth, intricacy, quirks, and stuff that most people fairly simply don't like.

The QoL people either don't understand the above, or don't care; and I suspect that it's more a case of the latter. WoW was always a game that bridged the divide between the non-mainstream EQ/UO raid crowd on the one hand, and the mainstream demographic on the other; and said mainstream have always been a numerically larger group.

The thing is, that the mainstream have fickle attention spans. They don't hang around for years on end. They want to be primarily where the most people are so they can look popular, but they tend to race off after the newest shiny object. Given what said mainstream have done to WoW, I think Blizzard are finally realising that designing a game to cater to them is not economically the best strategy, over the long term.

Normal people have lives. They have families. They have careers and children and mobile phones and lots of other things which massively eat into their time. They don't want games with too much depth, because that will take too much time; time which they want to spend looking at family photos on Facebook.

Damaged, autistic, slowly aging neckbeards like me, on the other hand, don't have lives. We don't have partners or all of those other things. All we have is games like WoW, and we are prepared to offer Blizzard almost all of what little money we have on an ongoing basis, if Blizzard are willing to offer us Azeroth as a virtual nursing home.

I'm not proud. Anyone here can call me a disgusting live miscarriage of a human being, and I will agree with them. Many of us, however, are people with very little else in our lives; but we want this. We need this.

If any of the people asking for incremental changes to vanilla have any compassion, I would request that they remember the above. I'm not asking for the sort of life you've probably got. I'm not asking for a wife, or kids, or money, or any of the other things that you take for granted.

All I'm asking for is the ability to literally take the blue pill, now and unto perpetuity, and maintain contact with the single most positive thing that has ever been part of my otherwise pedestrian and redundant existence.

Vanilla WoW, saving the incels since 2005

[Florena]

Thank you for bringing back hardcore MMORPG's.

DON'T LISTEN to the carebars. Don't give any QOL features or any carebear nonsense.

Hopefully future MMO's will learn and not make games as easy/dumbed down.

You realize vanilla was a casual mmo compared to its competitors right?

[Icechaosss]

Hater detected. Deploying friendship cannons.

Take my upvotes.

TAKE THEM EVEN THOUGH THEY DON'T EXIST

[NoRest4Wicked]

Classic may be more hardcore than MMO's today, but it was certainly not hardcore compared to when it was released. WoW was pretty casual compared to Ever Quest.

[Better]

Not everything in the game has to be tailored to being difficulty.
Having to use ammo as a hunter isn't just about being tedious. It's partially about being realistic and having class identity. Simply spending time doing things that are not raids/dungeons/pvp is also a reason for something to "be the way it is".

If we removed everything that wasn't difficult we would just have a static 2D interface that loaded us into a mythic raid/dungeon/pvp.

Friendly reminder: Playing games is about the entire experience, including the parts that can be considered tedious.

It's not even about tedium, at least to me why I feel hunters had it bad was they just passively had less bag slots. You NEEDED a quiver, it gave stats. So even ignoring that you also needed more ammo than your quiver could hold you had -1 bag compared to everyone else. Then you had pet food, which you also needed, as your pet could randomly die to boss AoEs, and if it died enough, and was unhappy long enough it could just run away (not to mention less happiness=less damage). Then you also needed your personal drinks, because you were a mana class at the time. And once we have all these satisfied you have your normal backpack, and maybe 1 bag? Then you also have to remember the Nefarian class call basically made you bring a 2nd, and even 3rd bow with. Being a hunter just meant you didn't get to have bag space at all.

[Darkeon]

Thank God we have a moderating team in this website.