I'm less excited about vanilla and more excited about

[Constraint]

Talents were more of an illusion. Most people picked the same exact talents for raiding or pvp. If you wanted to switch, have fun spending a crap load of gold (which was way harder to get) to switch between em. You have way more variety today, the system is just presented differently.

Weapon skills were dumb and unnecessary. "oh cool I got a new axe, let me go hit boars for 4 hours until I can use it properly"

I'm failing to see the "great" things.

Disagreed to both points. Talents helped us feel like we'd designed our characters, not just received templates from Blizzard. On top of that, many classes' builds changed greatly over the course of the expansion due to gear upgrades, breakpoints and even resistance types on mobs.

And Weapon skills weren't a big deal at all. I kinda found it immersive, really. If I pick up a Polearm for the first time, it's not exactly a stretch to imagine I'd need to practice with it before slaying dragons with it. They didn't take that long to level.

[ONCHEhap]

Your actually saying vanilla had better gameplay?

I could not even cast my totem on my shaman during MC as i did nkt have any mana o.O

From a RPG standpoint it absolutely did
From a MMO standpoint,maybe not

[DesMephisto]

So you're less excited about Vanilla, but more excited about Vanilla. Gotcha, makes perfect sense.

Nope, I admit a lot of aspects of vanilla are the poop. But character fantasy and immersion are important to me and those exist in Vanilla, not in BFA.

[stomination]

People just want that game back.

It's like, if you want to play FFVII on your playstation, you can. Just plug it in and play. People can only do that with vanilla by playing on dodgy servers, no guarantee of service in the long run, etc... that's why people are asking for classic, just the possibility of going back at it. No change, no fuss... just classic.

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Netherlands? Holland?

Netherstorm :P

Also, some people play without addons on Legion, what's the difference?

The difference is now its more abundant out there then it was back when I played on my Shadow priest.
While I enjoyed playing back then it just don't seem like it will be the same experience.

[Armourboy]

Disagreed to both points. Talents helped us feel like we'd designed our characters, not just received templates from Blizzard. On top of that, many classes' builds changed greatly over the course of the expansion due to gear upgrades, breakpoints and even resistance types on mobs.

And Weapon skills weren't a big deal at all. I kinda found it immersive, really. If I pick up a Polearm for the first time, it's not exactly a stretch to imagine I'd need to practice with it before slaying dragons with it. They didn't take that long to level.

If you knew about +int making it go faster it really wasn't a huge deal. Heck I had a gear set and kept potions ( and lucky enough to have a mage wife) for my warrior to get things leveled and don't remember it being that big of a deal. TBH most of the time just over the course of naturally leveling you had some of it done to begin with.

[Coffeexbean]

yea i wish we could have modern wow with vanilla systems that would be more exciting

[pateuvasiliu]

u forgot caster dpsers going oom from dpsing too hard, having to learn to manage their mana.

That doesn't actually happen. Healers don't go OOM and Warlocks can just life tap.

Plus there's a neat thing called flasks and mana/5 pots.

[Armourboy]

That doesn't actually happen. Healers don't go OOM and Warlocks can just life tap.

Plus there's a neat thing called flasks and mana/5 pots.

Umm not sure what version of Vanilla you played but healers certainly ran out of mana. Heck even as a Holy Paladin I could run dry, although it took a while for that to happen. Using Lay on Hands to get mana back once you were bone dry was a thing, and god help you if you needed to use it on a tank at the start of a fight, ugh.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Today? Gear. That is the only progression. /snore.

... Yeah, simply not true. It's always funny seeing people use the damned talent trees as some means of "progression"... You either chose the best spec, or you chose wrong. You can play sub-optimal just fine today with current trees as well and the talents can alter entire rotations and style of play for a class.

As someone not giving a shit about gear other than as a tool for downing bosses, I must've missed the memo stating that the only way to progress your character on Live is "gear".

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Nope, I admit a lot of aspects of vanilla are the poop. But character fantasy and immersion are important to me and those exist in Vanilla, not in BFA.

Subjective, but BfA ain't out yet so how the hell can you know such things about that iteration specifically?

People seem to experience character, class fantasy and immersion just fine in Legion and previous iterations though even if you can't.

[Armourboy]

... Yeah, simply not true. It's always funny seeing people use the damned talent trees as some means of "progression"... You either chose the best spec, or you chose wrong. You can play sub-optimal just fine today with current trees as well and the talents can alter entire rotations and style of play for a class.

As someone not giving a shit about gear other than as a tool for downing bosses, I must've missed the memo stating that the only way to progress your character on Live is "gear".

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Thing is though, best spec for what? I mean we reached points with lots of classes where you didn't even need to be a certain spec to do the content, certainly saw my share of Fury Warrior tanks and Ret Paladins as healers that were running with server first guilds. I had different specs for leveling and pvp than I did raiding, and sometimes depending on who else was in the raid and what they were spec'd you would spec differently as well ( didn't need two Holy Paladins with Kings as an example).

There was definitely more to talents that just picking one spec and done.

[Deleted]

Not if you had a mana battery with you...I mean a shadow priest.

Non-Vanilla player confirmed!

[Queen of Hamsters]

Thing is though, best spec for what? I mean we reached points with lots of classes where you didn't even need to be a certain spec to do the content, certainly saw my share of Fury Warrior tanks and Ret Paladins as healers that were running with server first guilds. I had different specs for leveling and pvp than I did raiding, and sometimes depending on who else was in the raid and what they were spec'd you would spec differently as well ( didn't need two Holy Paladins with Kings as an example).

There was definitely more to talents that just picking one spec and done.

And I have different specs for different content and even different bosses within said content.

In some content I knowingly make "the wrong decision" based on optimization, sacrificing some DPS for convenience or fun. On others, I go for the optimal. In casual content and stuff I do with alts, I 100% go for fun builds over optimal, unless of course the optimal happens to be fun.

I was around before the new talent trees were added, I had exactly 1 choice of what to spec as a hunter lest I'd be laughed out of raids. I didn't switch the build for entire tiers unless changes happened, unlike now when I can change between bosses or world content with tomes every 10 minutes.

Things having changed =/= they've been removed, so to speak.

Hell, Artifact weapons gave us the old style Talent trees for our weapons, but the choices on what route to take only mattered until we got such high AK that we could just unlock everything. That seems like a design they didn't like, and will be changed with BfA and its long-term character progression item.

[Anuibus]

What I hated about vanilla was people rolling need on skill manuals that you needed just to sell them for a chunk of gold.

[Constraint]

If you knew about +int making it go faster it really wasn't a huge deal. Heck I had a gear set and kept potions ( and lucky enough to have a mage wife) for my warrior to get things leveled and don't remember it being that big of a deal. TBH most of the time just over the course of naturally leveling you had some of it done to begin with.

Yep agreed. I mean, when most melee maxed Unarmed reasonably quickly after hitting max level just from hitting stuff while disarmed, you can kinda see that it's not a mammoth engagement by any stretch of the imagination.

[Armourboy]

And I have different specs for different content and even different bosses within said content.

In some content I knowingly make "the wrong decision" based on optimization, sacrificing some DPS for convenience or fun. On others, I go for the optimal. In casual content and stuff I do with alts, I 100% go for fun builds over optimal, unless of course the optimal happens to be fun.

I was around before the new talent trees were added, I had exactly 1 choice of what to spec as a hunter lest I'd be laughed out of raids. I didn't switch the build for entire tiers unless changes happened, unlike now when I can change between bosses or world content with tomes every 10 minutes.

Things having changed =/= they've been removed, so to speak.

Hell, Artifact weapons gave us the old style Talent trees for our weapons, but the choices on what route to take only mattered until we got such high AK that we could just unlock everything. That seems like a design they didn't like, and will be changed with BfA and its long-term character progression item.

Maybe it was a hunter thing then, don't know never played one then, or maybe it was more of a pure DPS thing, or heck maybe it was your guild, but I know several people that raided all the time that did so in different specs. Maybe I was just lucky, but I know some dang good Paladins that never raided as the holy spec.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Maybe it was a hunter thing then, don't know never played one then, or maybe it was more of a pure DPS thing, or heck maybe it was your guild, but I know several people that raided all the time that did so in different specs. Maybe I was just lucky, but I know some dang good Paladins that never raided as the holy spec.

It was during WOTLK, when more thought went into optimization and the "right or wrong"-think had been cemented.
On Classic servers these days, it seems people go with optimal builds if they wanna do something more than potter around in the world though.

[Frolk]

That doesn't actually happen. Healers don't go OOM and Warlocks can just life tap.

Plus there's a neat thing called flasks and mana/5 pots.

Naxx geared holy pala wont go oom, MC geared healers would go oom

[DesMephisto]

... Yeah, simply not true. It's always funny seeing people use the damned talent trees as some means of "progression"... You either chose the best spec, or you chose wrong. You can play sub-optimal just fine today with current trees as well and the talents can alter entire rotations and style of play for a class.

As someone not giving a shit about gear other than as a tool for downing bosses, I must've missed the memo stating that the only way to progress your character on Live is "gear".

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Subjective, but BfA ain't out yet so how the hell can you know such things about that iteration specifically?

People seem to experience character, class fantasy and immersion just fine in Legion and previous iterations though even if you can't.

Really? I'm pretty sure the only thing people experience in current wow is gear identity.

[pateuvasiliu]

Umm not sure what version of Vanilla you played

I have been played on a progressive Vanilla realm that started with MC and went through Onyxia, BWL, ZG and soon enough AQ.

Our healers don't go OOM. Even I as a hunter don't go OOM, maybe on longer fights like Chromaggus where I have to tranq a lot but I can just drink a major mana pot and I'm gucci.

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Naxx geared holy pala wont go oom, MC geared healers would go oom

Ours don't. Maybe said healers didn't know you can use a lower rank heal to preserve mana and overhealed like crazy.

[Armourboy]

I have been played on a progressive Vanilla realm that started with MC and went through Onyxia, BWL, ZG and soon enough AQ.

Our healers don't go OOM. Even I as a hunter don't go OOM, maybe on longer fights like Chromaggus where I have to tranq a lot but I can just drink a major mana pot and I'm gucci.

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Ours don't. Maybe said healers didn't know you can use a lower rank heal to preserve mana and overhealed like crazy.

No we knew that. Makes me wonder if their mana costs are off just a bit. I mean I could heal as a Paladin for a very long time non-stop but as long as some of those fights could get sometimes you woukd run out eventually. Granted mana also has a ton do with how well your group is geared and plays.