Ex-World of Warcraft dev Mark Kern explains why Blizzard open vanilla servers

[Floopa]

people are far more selfish these days.

classic wow will be a pain just to find groups, in classic (given wow's predecessors) it was commonplace to allow 3-4 hours when looking for a dungeon group and also completing the dungeon. given the state of the game now, i would hesitate people allow more than 30 minutes (less so, perhaps 20 minutes if tank/healer) to complete a dungeon. what you will see if a complete failure of people to dedicate themselves to a group.

[Surfd]

He sounds jaded. Maybe he's sad he doesn't work at Blizz anymore?

Also every time Nost comes up in Classic server numbers, every Vanilla fan fails to mention that Blizz's Classic is very unlikely to be free.

The OP reposted an article that is over a year and a half old. Kern hasn't worked at blizzard for a LONG time.

[Dentelan]

So holding a gun to your head and forcing you to find friends to fight together is what people want?

Yes
tenchar

[Deleted]

The difference is that in vanilla you wont succes as a player alone, while in retail you can do it.
It is not necessary to be part of community in retail, in vanilla - it is.
Social being determines consciousness.

I had my guild in classic, in BC, in WotlK, in Cata, in MoP, in WoD and in Legion. Not always the same guild, but a guild. I did/do things with my guild. If there are not enough people online, we invite a random stranger. Nothing has changed for me since the beta realms.

Being part of a community is a choice, you can´t force it.

[Deleted]

The OP reposted an article that is over a year and a half old. Kern hasn't worked at blizzard for a LONG time.

That I know. I just didn't realize I know who this is and we've been over this when Nost was in the spotlight.

He's just mad WoW is still a success without him.

[Surfd]

people are far more selfish these days.

classic wow will be a pain just to find groups, in classic (given wow's predecessors) it was commonplace to allow 3-4 hours when looking for a dungeon group and also completing the dungeon. given the state of the game now, i would hesitate people allow more than 30 minutes (less so, perhaps 20 minutes if tank/healer) to complete a dungeon. what you will see if a complete failure of people to dedicate themselves to a group.

If nost was any indication, 50 to 60% of the population will be Warriors, Mages and Rogues. So I guess if you want to guarantee you get a fast group, roll a healing class, lol.

[Deleted]

Yes
tenchar

Almost didn't notice the ninja edit. It's still forcing you to do something at gunpoint.

[Dentelan]

I had my guild in classic, in BC, in WotlK, in Cata, in MoP, in WoD and in Legion. Not always the same guild, but a guild. I did/do things with my guild. If there are not enough people online, we invite a random stranger. Nothing has changed for me since the beta realms.

Being part of a community is a choice, you can´t force it.

But game can push you to be a part of community. Game must motivate it or it is not even interesting. Nowadays motivations are weak, because everything can be done in PUG raid.

[Floopa]

If nost was any indication, 60% of the population will be Warriors, Mages and Rogues. So I guess if you want to guarantee you get a fast group, roll a healing class, lol.

priest it is then

[Deleted]

But game can push you to be a part of community. Game must motivate it or it is not even interesting. Nowadays motivations are weak, because everything can be done in PUG raid.

Motivation is good.

"If you join a guild you can find groups faster, but even without it, it's like 20 minutes tops, no biggie"

It's not forcing people to be social. It's just there to make it easier.

[Dentelan]

Almost didn't notice the ninja edit. It's still forcing you to do something at gunpoint.

See no problem there. In vanilla you have choices - be piece of sh1t, or be good/pro player. In retail such situation cant even be. Newcomers will farm 910+ in argus in a week or two and then rush normal-heroic-mythic (if they want). No community needed. Yes, if your argument was that game holding gun at your head is bad, i disagree with you. This is what i want. Like try to fck with me game, lets see who has bigger balls.

[Deleted]

But game can push you to be a part of community. Game must motivate it or it is not even interesting. Nowadays motivations are weak, because everything can be done in PUG raid.

You PuG mythic raid clears? No? Raiding, thats what a guild is for. Everythinig else could be done in a PuG. 5man, 10man, PvP, farming, Professions, questing. All is pugable in classic.

The attitude towards community has changed and only changing the server type won´t change that.

[Dentelan]

You PuG mythic raid clears? No? Raiding, thats what a guild is for. Everythinig else could be done in a PuG. 5man, 10man, PvP, farming, Professions, questing. All is pugable in classic.

The attitude towards community has changed and only changing the server type won´t change that.

Listen, we are not even talking about motivation to go in mythic while you did same raid in 3 different difficulties. Yes there are pugs/semi-statics on many servers that are grouping to do mythic if this is what interests you. Dont try to find any proof that everything is okay in retail with social part of game. Its a piece of stinky sh1t. Take it as a fact.
And yes, server type will change that. You will see.

[Vichan]

Yeah, the guy is an absolute asshat and just wants some time in the spotlight or maybe a job.

Not sure why people bother with him at all.

I said the same thing when he forced himself into the whole nostalrius thing

[Surfd]

You PuG mythic raid clears? No? Raiding, thats what a guild is for. Everythinig else could be done in a PuG..

Depends on the progression curve. By time naxx had been out for a month or so on Tichondrious, there were plenty of groups capable of pugging nearly everything up to early AQ bosses. Guilds only did guild runs of old stuff if they specifically wanted to ensure total controll over the loot drops for gearing up alts or secondary specs.

[Deleted]

Depends on the progression curve. By time naxx had been out for a month or so on Tichondrious, there were plenty of groups capable of pugging nearly everything up to early AQ bosses. Guilds only did guild runs of old stuff if they specifically wanted to ensure total controll over the loot drops for gearing up alts or secondary specs.

You mean it is even worse for Dentelan and you can PuG all in classic? Don´t know what was killed in pugs on my realm. I was fine running with my guild.

Dont try to find any proof that everything is okay in retail with social part of game. Its a piece of stinky sh1t. Take it as a fact.
And yes, server type will change that. You will see.

No, not all is shit now. And back then not all was shiny. Take me as an example: I ganked people until the logged off. I sapped people for 20 minutes straight *yay no DR*, when we were benched on raid days, we raided the horde in blackrock mountain. From time to time we did a 40 man AV, camping horde in their tunnel. We had fun. The other side? Not so much. And as a guild we weren´t part of the server community, we did 99% percent inside the guild, other people didm´t matter. As I said: Forming a community is about the mindset, not about the patch. In Classic it was guild > rest and now it is still guild > rest.

[Deleted]

See no problem there. In vanilla you have choices - be piece of sh1t, or be good/pro player. In retail such situation cant even be. Newcomers will farm 910+ in argus in a week or two and then rush normal-heroic-mythic (if they want). No community needed. Yes, if your argument was that game holding gun at your head is bad, i disagree with you. This is what i want. Like try to fck with me game, lets see who has bigger balls.

Ah, I just noticed you're russian.

Jokes aside. Okay. Good for you.

Retail still has "pieces of shits" They are the ones in 910 gear. Barely clearing normal. Like me. But we can still do normal. And every other content available. We might even join a guild and try heroic.

In Classic we could level to 60 and that's it.

[cuafpr]

If nost was any indication, 50 to 60% of the population will be Warriors, Mages and Rogues. So I guess if you want to guarantee you get a fast group, roll a healing class, lol.

not just a healing class, dwarf priest if you play ally. Fear ward will get in you a virtual instant invite to any good raiding guild.

[Doffen]

The difference is that in vanilla you wont succes as a player alone, while in retail you can do it.
It is not necessary to be part of community in retail, in vanilla - it is.
Social being determines consciousness.

No, difference today is that it is an option to do it "single player". You still do dungeons/raids/bgs with other people. How you approach it is up to each individual. I am just as social today as I was in classic, its a playerchoice.

You could level all alone in classic as well. Dungeons and raids? The same as current.

[Perkunas]

So holding a gun to your head and forcing you to be my friend is what people want?

But they aren't. You have the option to play the live game. MMO's were built in such a way that you had to rely on others to progress and succeed. They encouraged interaction and building friendships with people especially the older games where the populations were much smaller. Different people enjoy different things. You have such a hate-boner for legacy it's ridiculous. It's like Mark Kern and the Nost team killed your family.