[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Deleted]

That is their decision. So they can blame either the UK or NI for a closed border. But if they start blaming the EU for the UK's failure to have any kind of concept or plan going into these negotiations, I'd be rather surprised.

Should the UK crash into a no-deal situation, this is the alternative to implement WTO rules and uphold the GFA at the same time. I really don't see other possibilities that don't involve some kind of accommodation in a deal situation or outright violating the GFA.

The only possibility I can think of is having passport checks on travel from NI to GB and scrapping the Common Travel Area that grants freedom of movement between the UK and the Republic of Ireland.

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So... around 21% want it?

I can't remember where I read it, but after the last election in NI, there were reports that the numbers were around 60-65% for reunification in RoI.

[Noradin]

The only possibility I can think of is having passport checks on travel from NI to GB and scrapping the Common Travel Area that grants freedom of movement between the UK and the Republic of Ireland.

What about goods? (Some companies and farms are on both sides of the border.)

What you propose would essentially leave NI in the customs union with the EU instead of the UK and consequently put it under the rules made by the EU.

[Kiri]

So while the eu attempts to be less dependent on the military might of the US, the UK will continue to depend on the US to protect us.

Please, in the world that Brexiteers currently occupy, the UK is a military superpower that can just nuke whoever they want in a pinch. One of them said so like ten pages back.

The only possibility I can think of is having passport checks on travel from NI to GB and scrapping the Common Travel Area that grants freedom of movement between the UK and the Republic of Ireland.

You would also need customs and inspections of goods between NI and GB and ROI and continental Europe. Might as well not have either in either union at that point.

[Deleted]

What about goods? (Some companies and farms are on both sides of the border.)

What you propose would essentially leave NI in the customs union with the EU instead of the UK and consequently put it under the rules made by the EU.

Yeah true, the only way that would work is if NI somehow managed to stay in the Free Market, with the rest of the UK out of it, but I can only imagine the amount of problems that would cause.

[Noradin]

I can't remember where I read it, but after the last election in NI, there were reports that the numbers were around 60-65% for reunification in RoI.

Oh? That is news to me, last I spoke about the topic with family living over there (but not up north) they told me most people didn't care either way and would rather they didn't have to bother at all. To them that border is an annoyance and problem waiting to happen, not something they would choose to take an interest in. They want to get rid of the problem that border poses, not want to absorb NI and its problems.

[dribbles]

Please, in the world that Brexiteers currently occupy, the UK is a military superpower that can just nuke whoever they want in a pinch. One of them said so like ten pages back.

Glad you recognise that danger. Any serious attempt to annex NI from the UK by the EU, for instance by moving the border to the Irish sea, would be seen as a declaration of war.

[Noradin]

Yeah true, the only way that would work is if NI somehow managed to stay in the Free Market, with the rest of the UK out of it, but I can only imagine the amount of problems that would cause.

"Threatening the integrity of the UK" were the words Boris used to describe your proposal, when someone else made it.
Other than that, there are precedents for that kind of setup between some other territories and the EU, but they all have in common that the smaller, single country submit to the rules and regulations set by the EU for all member states. The EU was always set up to integrate markets, after all, and that means it was set up to find and dictate common regulations for all participants. That is what many people do not understand when they claim it was just a free trade deal in the beginning and not supposed to make regulations. Those two--free trade and regulations--are intrinsically linked: You cannot have free trade between states without regulations. Without the regulations you would have to get rid of either the trade or the states.

[Slant]

It is not their decision alone, RoI would also be involved and I don’t think there is strong support for a united Ireland in the republic. A violation of the GFA may well herald a return to the NI civil war, so the only viable way forward would be an accommodation between all parties which maintains an open border.

I agree. An accommodation is vital right now. But the UK does not seem to see it that way as you or I do. I cannot explain the procrastination otherwise. Attempts to put the blame on the EU are ignoring the fact that the EU is actually prepared for this and has a clear position on the issues from which they can negotiate. Banking on the EU to give in just so the UK doesn't run into trouble domestically is... a weird proposition to make. The negotiation table has never been a place for charity in the history of negotiations.

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Glad you recognise that danger. Any serious attempt to annex NI from the UK by the EU, for instance by moving the border to the Irish sea, would be seen as a declaration of war.

Nobody even suggested that. Stop inventing bullshit just so you have something to say about it. Jesus...

[Deleted]

Glad you recognise that danger. Any serious attempt to annex NI from the UK by the EU, for instance by moving the border to the Irish sea, would be seen as a declaration of war.

1) No one said anything about annexation.

2) We are discussing the overlapping treaties that will need to be looked into if a hard border is enforced between NI and RoI (GFA and CTA being the main two).

3) If the EU were to fight the UK, we would lose.

Stop saber rattling you sad little tosser.

[Floopa]

it's a very real threat i think. germany are known to be war criminals, they tried twice (through force) to take over the world and more importantly - the UK. they are now doing it through federalising the eu and taking over areas and groups of people through "inclusion" like russia did with their soviet bloc 30-40 years ago.

it's a very scary time, but as we voted to leave we have managed to realise what is dear and what we hold above all else in the UK: our sovereignty and strength.

(Infracted) ~ Nation-Bashing

[Slant]

3) If the EU were to fight the UK, we would lose.

I'd also like to add that the whole idea of continental Europe and the UK being at war is... preposterously stupid. It's so mindbogglingly backwards that anyone suggesting it actually deserves to be actually hit on the head with an actual dead trout for it.

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it's a very real threat i think. germany are known to be war criminals, they tried twice (through force) to take over the world and more importantly - the UK. they are now doing it through federalising the eu and taking over areas and groups of people through "inclusion" like russia did with their soviet bloc 30-40 years ago.

it's a very scary time, but as we voted to leave we have managed to realise what is dear and what we hold above all else in the UK: our sovereignty and strength.

No, you didn't. And Germany isn't "war criminals". Germany is a modern nation that was founded in 1949 and is one of the architects of a system that finally managed to bring the continent to a lasting peace for the first time in oh, just about ~2000 years.

[Kronik85]

I've become convinced over the past few days that putting a Hard Brexiteer as the main negotiator to the EU is a terrible terrible mistake. The only way Brexiteers retain credibility post Brexit is No Deal.

The promises about getting a better deal outside the EU in the referendum were obviously outlandish and all good deals involve some form of Freedom of Movement, a roll for the ECJ or both so that's unworkable for Hard Brexiteers. Looking at it through this lens the only out Brexiteers have is to No Deal and blame it on the EU.

[Deleted]

I'd also like to add that the whole idea of continental Europe and the UK being at war is... preposterously stupid. It's so mindbogglingly backwards that anyone suggesting it actually deserves to be actually hit on the head with an actual dead trout for it.

Ofcourse its stupid, but all the Brexiteers have left at this point is fearmongering to try to reinforce the mistake that they've made.

[dribbles]

Nobody even suggested that. Stop inventing bullshit just so you have something to say about it. Jesus...

I know you only found Northern Ireland on a map yesterday, well done by the way, but what you have read in the last 24 hours appears so limited in substance that you own all the bullshit and ignorance on this subject.

No one suggested it? More like widely comment upon...here's just one.

eu-plan-to-annex-northern-ireland-may-spark-war

1) Stop saber rattling you sad little tosser.

See how the aggression rises in men of simple minds? And you say no chance of war lol

[Kiri]

Glad you recognise that danger. Any serious attempt to annex NI from the UK by the EU, for instance by moving the border to the Irish sea, would be seen as a declaration of war.

Actually, I did the complete opposite of that....

I know you only found Northern Ireland on a map yesterday, well done by the way, but what you have read in the last 24 hours appears so limited in substance that you own all the bullshit and ignorance on this subject.

No one suggested it? More like widely comment upon...here's just one.

eu-plan-to-annex-northern-ireland-may-spark-war

You should look up what the word annex actually means. And so should your source, for that matter.

[Slant]

I know you only found Northern Ireland on a map yesterday, well done by the way, but what you have read in the last 24 hours appears so limited in substance that you own all the bullshit and ignorance on this subject.

No one suggested it? More like widely comment upon...here's just one.

eu-plan-to-annex-northern-ireland-may-spark-war

I feel like I'm back in the 90s having to explain to my parents how the internet works...

dribbles, just because it's on the internet doesn't make it a real thing. Don't believe anything they say on the internet. It's just idiots and children bullshitting around. Yes, you can believe the BBC, but don't put any value on a site called "commentcentral.co.uk" especially not when they don't moderate but literally are about "anyone posting" something.

[dribbles]

I feel like I'm back in the 90s having to explain to my parents how the internet works...

dribbles, just because it's on the internet doesn't make it a real thing. Don't believe anything they say on the internet. It's just idiots and children bullshitting around. Yes, you can believe the BBC, but don't put any value on a site called "commentcentral.co.uk" especially not when they don't moderate but literally are about "anyone posting" something.

The reporting is far wider than just that website, the sequence of events were.....

1 The IRA refuse to accept a hard border
2 They pressurised the Irish taoiseach to adopt their position and submit it to EU negotiators.
3 EU negotiators agreed to their solution
4 The UK refused the annexation of NI by the EU

Detailed reporting is a google away but for people who can't be bothered, a tabloid front page had a precis just a couple of days ago.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/488987...ministers-say/

If you don't like that source either, there are hundreds more. It doesn't really matter where you find it, it is where it leads that matters - most agree it will lead to war.

[Deleted]

The thing is the UK has no viable diplomatic, economic or political strategy to make a success of Brexit. And now has pretty much given itself no time to manage a negotiated brexit. So the ball is completely in the EU's court. And they will offer a take it or leave it deal in January 2019. The EU has decided it can take the hit of a no deal, and the UK really can't. So when they do offer the UK a deal so late they will have the power to make the deal whatever they want, and the UK will simply have to take it or fall off the cliff edge. Its sad that the Brexiteers have made our country so weak and now the EU will be able to impose a humiliating settlement on the UK.

[Noradin]

I know you only found Northern Ireland on a map yesterday, well done by the way, but what you have read in the last 24 hours appears so limited in substance that you own all the bullshit and ignorance on this subject.

No one suggested it? More like widely comment upon...here's just one.

eu-plan-to-annex-northern-ireland-may-spark-war



See how the aggression rises in men of simple minds? And you say no chance of war lol

Oh!
Is that a link to your very own blog?
How nice of you to post it here!

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You should look up what the word annex actually means. And so should your source, for that matter.

That's probably him, going by the words used and the fantasy world he describes.

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What is it with brextremists and their warmongering. First they want a war with Spain over Gibraltar, now they want a war with the eu over the RoI/NI border.

It's because all those outcomes would please Putin immensely.
Even just putting the idea that those outcomes are possible in peoples heads would be greatly to his benefit.
Everything to divide the West. Divide and conquer is what he invented his troll farm for.

[Mittens]

So while the EU attempts to be less dependent on the military might of the US, the UK will continue to depend on the US to protect us.

So, it's okay to surrender sovereignty in such a way? Foreign policy should be a thing each country has control over, not a barely democratic organization.