New high end content in classic after Naxx

[Hunterwep]

You won't clear naxx40 any time soon, I would expect "new content" will only being needed after a good three years from now.
Finding 40-60 people who would want to farm AQ40 and BWL for half a year to gear up for Naxx at this point will be a challange on its own.

[Kilee25]

Haven't read all the posts in this thread, but basically I would like to see something like "Vanilla+". I wouldn't mind seeing some additional content, as long as it fits with the original lore and doesn't interrupt the original flow of progression.

Introducing a raid "after Naxx" seems awesome to me, but if it is made, I would like to see an atunement and a general requirement be that you have to clear naxx and be in that level of gear in order to do it.

Alternatively, I wouldn't mind seeing a side 20 man raid, like what we got with ZG and AQ20. A completely seperate 20 man raid that's parallel to the 40-man content would sit very well with me, but I think in order to do that, the gear needs to not be better than the 40-man content gear. I am also not in favor of multiple modes of play. I don't want to see a 20-man version of Naxx40 that's the same raid and mechanics, just for fewer people. To me the variable raid levels diminishes the experience and satisfaction of completing the raids.

- - - Updated - - -

Additionally, on the subject of the strength of current players and the difficulty of the raids... I think that a lot of people playing back in Vanilla were not very good at the game. My original guild broke up in TBC, and we did kill a couple of bosses in Naxx 40. However, it wasn't until around TBC that I realized that many of the players who I'd been raiding with had been terribad for 4+ years.

In Vanilla, I and most of the officers in my guild didn't have much of a quantifiable measure of how good someone was at their class. We didn't have raid logging tools like we do today, which we can use to look up a player's performance and get an idea of how they are doing in relation to others in their class in that role. Certain websites within the community had started doing some theorycrafting on stats and gear, but this didn't really mature until after Vanilla was over. I would say that theorycrafting didn't really hit a stride until Wrath.

Basically what I'm saying is that.. although I don't think players are any better today than they were back then... what I mean is that people are just people. There are good players, bad players, probably in the same amount that there always were. The difference is that today, we have the tools and experience to be able to differentiate between them. And in addition to that, we have the experience and wisdom to understand the detrimental effect poor players can have on the health of raids and guilds. Back then, the biggest issue I had as a guild officer was that I didn't understand that some people don't "learn" and get better. I just assumed that everyone would become a great raider if we put them in a raid and gave them the gear. I didn't understand that sometimes a bad player is just a bad player and always will be. I was more forgiving back then. I placed value on people according to their friendliness and personality. People who "showed up" had a high status in our guild. In the new servers, I am not as likely to be as patient and forgiving with people as I was before. I think that is actually what people here mean when they say that players have gotten better. I don't think players have gotten better on the whole - but I think that people who have played the game for many years are much wiser than they were before, and they won't make the same mistakes as they did in the past when it comes to deciding who to play the game with. That in itself will make the content easier, and I believe that it will be cleared faster as a result.

I do also think that advancements in technology will help. Modern computers, better internet connections, fewer bugs... these things plagued raids back in Vanilla, and with modern advancements in technology, a lot of that will be removed from the experience, and I think that's a good thing overall.

Also, for me... if the experience is identical to Vanilla.... I will level much faster compared to the first time I played, because I will know where everything is, and I know how to level characters. I didn't know what I was doing in Vanilla, and that really slowed things down. I leveled 2 more characters in vanilla after my first, and both of them went much much faster than the first. A new character in Vanilla today would take me a fraction of the time it took me back then. But I think that it will still be much slower than people expect, even people who play wow a lot. It's still a pretty big grind.

[Radaney]

They should add updates to add longevity but I expect it take a couple of years to reach Naxx anyway.

Absolutely no game system updates though, purely added PvE/PvP content.

[Lochton]

The big question I have is will they add new content after 40 man Naxx like a 40 man Karazhan with better loot to keep the progression going or its all going to end with Naxx for eternity.

What was cool about classic is that you had very few guilds finishing all the content before new content was being pushed out. I think after a while when guilds have Naxx on farm they may release a new 40 man raid to keep people progressing.

I hope not?

People asked for the Classic experience and they are given so, maybe they'll make a continue with 'The Burning Crusade experience' but developing on classic to make a secondary branch of the same franchise, is sorta waste.

[sam86]

Do u know how brutally hard was Naxx ? In my server I still remember Patchwerk - the 'easiest' boss there - was nicknamed GM killing Button, if a Gm is really angry at u, he will send patchwerk to kill u instead of use the command /kill
Heck just gearing for Naxx, need 4 warriors who can never miss taunt (so either set piece of +spl hit trinket) will need AGES, and since zero catchup mechanism any raider drop for 'any' reason u'll have to gear a new one from scratch, or consume other guilds (always lure a tank warrior, and the guild collapse)

[Deleted]

You honestly think that more than 1% will see it again?

The whole '1% of playerbase' was because Naxx released after TBC was annonced and most people just couldn't bring themselves to farm super hard bosses with super hard prerequisitises, just so the gear will get outdated in few months.

[Deficineiron]

Introducing a raid "after Naxx" seems awesome to me, but if it is made, I would like to see an atunement and a general requirement be that you have to clear naxx and be in that level of gear in order to do it.

Do you have any idea what chain of requirements such a raid would bring into play?\

Blizz has been pretty clear that for them to make new content, it has to be accessible by all of the playerbase. So clearly right out of the gate there need to be raid difficulties, ranging from faceroll to very hard.

I can only imagine the kind of bargaining going on to keep basic tuning in leveling and instances from being totally trivialized in the name of accessibility.

I am worried about how much of that type stuff is going to make it in anyway.

[munkeyinorbit]

Lol, the amount of 'yay vanilla servers now here's the new stuff/improvements/QoL changes we want' topics is mindblowing.

Oh Blizzard, what fresh hell have you unleashed.

This is their plan.

"GUYS. Theres going to be 18 months between 7.3.5 and next xpac, what should we do?".
"we have made a new trailer for the classic version of WoW due in 4 years...".
"RELEASE THE KRACKEN!"

- - - Updated - - -

The whole '1% of playerbase' was because Naxx released after TBC was annonced and most people just couldn't bring themselves to farm super hard bosses with super hard prerequisitises, just so the gear will get outdated in few months.

If you paid attention, no one actually thought this. People were shocked when they realised their hard earned epics were overwritten so easily in BC. Naxx was inaccessible to the average raider because they were not good enough to do it.

[Deleted]

I like the idea that eventually they might add something to it. It wouldn't really ruin anything since the original is still there. It would be original+

[arkanon]

No in almost every possible way.

What i COULD accept is a massive backtrack from blizzard. I would be comfortable with them seeing the success of classic for 2+ years, sustainable gains and popularity etc, (which i honestly do not think will happen) and blizzard realizing some of their mistakes, and molding the next expansion to really incorporate many of the things that fans seem to enjoy about Classic, while mixing it in with some of the modern stuff.

That i could be onboard with, but, like i said, that all assumes classic shows potential for a huge financial success as a standalone product, and i absolutely do NOT see that.

tl;dr - classic is probably 2-3 years away at this stage, and for all we know is just another dance studio.

[Kilee25]

Do you have any idea what chain of requirements such a raid would bring into play?\

Blizz has been pretty clear that for them to make new content, it has to be accessible by all of the playerbase. So clearly right out of the gate there need to be raid difficulties, ranging from faceroll to very hard.

I can only imagine the kind of bargaining going on to keep basic tuning in leveling and instances from being totally trivialized in the name of accessibility.

I am worried about how much of that type stuff is going to make it in anyway.

I think you are applying current wow logic to your argument, and with Classic I think that there might be a different approach to design and content. My hope, and it is a faint hope, is that Blizzard will recreate the Vanilla servers with a mind towards what might have happened if the game were approached from a different design philosophy. Basically instead of going with the conventions of today's game, perhaps go in the direction that the game might have gone in if the other side of the argument had won out. My point is/was that it could be a whole new, brave world, and using the logic, "Well Bliz won't ever do that because they said they wouldn't in the past," is fallacious thinking. We are sitting here looking at Vanilla servers coming back, and they said that they would never do that, and now they have. So no, I don't think new content for Vanilla is off the table. It could happen.

[Heladys]

No, play your vanilla.

[Thornquist]

As much as people screams "Will never happen, it isnt Vanilla", the truth of the matter is that IF Classic is sucessful, they will have to address new content eventually.

I would love new content that was shaped around the core design philosophies of Vanilla WoW, hopefully more than just endgame raids.

[Deficineiron]

I think you are applying current wow logic to your argument, and with Classic I think that there might be a different approach to design and content. My hope, and it is a faint hope, is that Blizzard will recreate the Vanilla servers with a mind towards what might have happened if the game were approached from a different design philosophy. Basically instead of going with the conventions of today's game, perhaps go in the direction that the game might have gone in if the other side of the argument had won out. My point is/was that it could be a whole new, brave world, and using the logic, "Well Bliz won't ever do that because they said they wouldn't in the past," is fallacious thinking. We are sitting here looking at Vanilla servers coming back, and they said that they would never do that, and now they have. So no, I don't think new content for Vanilla is off the table. It could happen.

i think we are reading from the same manual but in different sections.

I am in the section where the publicly traded company money ogre makes clear that any title they release needs to be marketed to the broadest audience possible. You can see it in the game from the first major patch post-2.4, post-merger - which was 3.0.2. The one about-face (4.0) was reversed almost immediately. Blizzard under A/B ownership doesn't MAKE inaccessible games like classic anymore.

My theory is that obviously blizz has to do maximum lip service to 'preserving the classic game experience (remember that phrase, you are going to see it a lot)', because the community knows blizzard far too well now not to have very reasonable doubts about what sort of Frankenstein is going to be cobbled together out of classic's guts and a modern engine's skeleton, ...In reality there is probably going to be some contention between blizz and money on how broadly to market it, via tuning and qol stuff and dumbdowns.

If it wasn't clear from context, bobby's team is 'money' for short. Let it be said I also admire bobby kotick professionally a great deal, and have watched/read a number of interviews with him. He is hell on complex, engaging games, though.

I don't doubt there are blue Names that WANT to release a fairly authentic classic server. I just don't believe they are the people with the final say on broad decisions like 'who are we trying to sell this to and retain as a sub?"

[Deleted]

SOO was a decent raid but the 15 months ruined it..
HOF was awful with multiple broken bosses and a end boss that took 4 healing 10 man and 8 healing 25 man...
MSV was cleared in hours and had reset kings.
TOES with the 22 minute boss fight was kinda gay.
DS was the worst raid ever made in wow.... Guilds literally just stopped raiding because the raid was so bad not even because it was hard just an awful raid with poorly designed bosses.

I mean overall maybe not the worst era of wow but could have been alot better... and without needing the hello kitty panda's and deathwing destroying the land,

Agree with your assessment of SoO and MSV (although I didn't mind it being ez, it was supposed to be an intro raid and we were just after a guild reform, so it served well to test new people before doing harder content). Parts of HOF I actually liked, except Amber Shaper, that bugged pile of shit. DS was indeed either the worst, or one of the worst raids (because hey, there's also fucking Hyjal).

But first tier of Cata, Firelands, ToT were excellent. Cata launch dungeons were excellent, never before and never after did I have so much fun just learning new alts and playing them in casual content: in 4.0.1 heroic you either learned fast and played properly, or got cockblocked forever in Grim Batol or something. That was good. [and before, e.g. in TBC, the barrier of entry was too high for me to make many alts and play them semi-regularly]

And the pandas, well, the pandas were a misdirection. MoP had some of the darkest and most sinister themes and storytelling in WoW yet, and I liked it. It helps that both Cata and MoP were both Old God expansions, and I love Old God shit. Always have, since the first time I saw Silithus as a leveling noob stumbling out of Un'Goro.

[socialmaker]

I'd also point out, this is putting the cart well before the horse. They haven't even got the ball rolling on this yet.

Keep in mind World of Warcraft launched in 2004 and Burning Crusade launched in 2007.

There were 3 years of Classic WoW before the first expansion. Unless the put everything from classic in off the bat, they could easily let the Classic server update with the patches & content on the same schedule the original game updated.

Perhaps they'd even take longer since it would be a single server for things like Anh'Qiraj's opening. No nerfs, both factions have to complete the turn in, etc.

Assuming WoW: Classic Server launches in 2018, you could fathomably have until 2021 before you're thinking about "what about after Naxxramas is cleared?"

Oh Cmon late november 2004 til January 2007 isn't exactly 3 years is it?

[Deleted]

Naxx is enough to keep an entire server busy for a very long time.

You honestly think that more than 1% will see it again?

Ofc more will see it, this is not vanilla times anymore!

[Revamp Man]

The big question I have is will they add new content after 40 man Naxx like a 40 man Karazhan with better loot to keep the progression going or its all going to end with Naxx for eternity.

What was cool about classic is that you had very few guilds finishing all the content before new content was being pushed out. I think after a while when guilds have Naxx on farm they may release a new 40 man raid to keep people progressing.

no
you wanted vanilla and now you get it

[Deleted]

Lol, the amount of 'yay vanilla servers now here's the new stuff/improvements/QoL changes we want' topics is mindblowing.

Oh Blizzard, what fresh hell have you unleashed.

Lol, the amount of anti-vanilla people posting to every single vanilla thread without actually committing anything to the discussion. Why even bother commenting if you have no intention to play it or give constructive comments? There are constantly whole threads trying to bash Vanilla so join those instead. This comment is not directed to just you, but you must have noticed the same thing or then you are delusional.

On topic: I personally think that there is no need for new content. I'll be surprised if I ever reach 60 (maybe if new expac sucks), and I think most people will never cba to farm enough to see all content.

[bigbleach]

I see no reason they will add anything after Naxx. That is kinda the point of it being Vanilla. It will be stuck in that time period which is what people have been asking for. Adding anything to it makes it not vanilla anymore. Even if they decided to somehow add level 60 versions of some of the newer raids that completely goes against the idea of a classic server.

just wait until you see the runs for cash. Players are a lot better now, nothing about the bosses this time around will be new or unexpected. People are gonna get a hell of a lot further a lot faster, especially if they do not bring out bosses in bugged out, near unkillable states like a couple were in vanilla. Just don't underestimate the players. Some fights now get close to 10 mechanics. Most bosses had 3 simple mechanics, the hardest part was how many people there were. Once guilds get reasonable rosters, boosts will be sold, might only be for a few classes/bosses at first, but they will come since T2 doesn't make T1 irrelevant to the whole playerbase, the same for T3. And since there will be an absolute cap on the content and gear, 5 floaters won't make a difference and previous tiers and eventually portions of naxx will be sold. They may only get a piece or two per run... but with a fixed gear ceiling, your 5th best item in a slot picks up value... and you know how we all want to be special and the best at this video game and shit talk eachother.