Teldrassil: How to make burning it make sense.

[mkultra55]

How about we finally get some real bad guy vs good guy stuff in WOW and have Sylvanas just do it without provocation?

No more nuanced, gray area crap where both sides can claim some moral high ground.

[Morssoe]

I guess old gods predict was correct and the last circle is complete by destroying world tree. It was the last prison.

[Al Gorefiend]

You want it to be grey because you have Garrosh guilt. Maybe the Sylvanas should start calling your kind cucks in game. You can't stomach the fact that the Horde, being aggressive in pursuit of its military goals not only suits it, but makes rational sense, yet for some reason you're too 'LOKTARD OHGAWD' to be a peacenik with the Alliance. So you keep hoping for some ambiguously idiotic grey area that makes the Horde morally justified in their action no matter how retarded the Alliance looks. Sylvanas burns Teldrassil for the same reason Garrosh nuked Theramore. it wasn't 'for the lols' it was 'because it's a major base of operations for the Alliance'. Theramore AND Teldrassil (presumably Darkshore as well) is out of commission. The few Alliance forces left have no resources and no relief.

I think this is the most rational, logical, realistic idea. And ffs horde players, being aggressive warmongers doesn't make you evil. The fact they refuse to give the Alliance competent AND aggressive leaders is a testament to the favouritism the Horde gets within the lore, being both competent AND aggressive.

What if I told you being evil and morally grey is why people like the Horde.

Yeah I know, people like you who love your Korean MMOs and Tolkien tropes can't stomach the idea of not playing a morally perfect elf or human, so it's probably shocking to hear some of us like playing the "bad guys". If I wanted to play the goodie goodie hero defending the world and rescuing damsels in distress Warcraft wouldn't be my game.

[missLAVA]

My Theory:

[World Trees]
The very first World Tree is Shaladrassil.
A World Tree allows a connection between the physical world and the Emerald Dream, the plane of Life and Nature.
After the first Legion's invasion, Cenarius and Malfurion seeded another World Tree because Shaladrassil was corrupted.
They planted the seeds in Hyjal, using a branch from G'Hanir, and named the World Tree Nordrassil. The World Tree was blessed by the Dragon Aspects of Life, Nature and Time.
Nightelves tried to plant another World Tree in Northrend, Vordrassil, but it was corrupted by Yogg'Saron.

[Vanilla]
After the destruction of Nordrassil, the World Tree in Hyjal, Night Elves seeded another World Tree on Teldrassil. This World Tree wasn't blessed by the Dragon Aspects so corruption started to invade it through the Emerald Dream.
Malfurion and other Cenarius circle druids were fighting the "Nightmare" in the Emerald Dream and couldn't escape because there was no "blessed" World Tree.

[Wrath of the Lich King]
Loken, one of the Keepers, was corrupted by Yogg'Saron.
He made a deal with Helya and plotted against Odyn (the Prime Keeper) to take his place.
Loken was helping Yogg'Saron to break from its prison, so we killed Loken.
By killing the Prime Keeper, we triggered a security system calling the Celestial in charge of Azeroth, named Algalon.
Algalon's job is to check the sanity of the World Soul and the corruption over its surface.
We defeat Yogg'Saron but Algalon was already there, and after several tests he decided to push the big red button in Halls of Origination.
We stopped Algalon and proved ourselves worthy to defend Azeroth from corruption.
We met the Dragon Aspects of Life (Alextraza) and Nature (Ysera), who decided to bless Teldrassil, and by the way, freeing Malfurion from the Emerald Dream.

[Cataclysm]
N'Zoth asks Deathwing/Neltharion to use the Halls of Origination. The reason: the Emerald Nightmare started by Yogg'Saron is now handled by N'Zoth and grows well. If life is erased from the surface and the Emerald Dream resets it, the Emerald Nightmare will corrupt a good part of the planet.
We stopped Deathwing to use the Halls of Origination and deactivated the device of reorigination with Brann Bronzebeard's help.

[Mist Of Pandaria]
Later we find a captive Keeper: Ra (or Ra-Den) who was the Keeper in charge of South Kalimdor and the Halls of Origination. When we met him, he broke his chains and was on his way to use the device of reorigination, but we stopped him

[Legion]
The Emerald Nightmare, still empowered by N'Zoth and invaded by Xavius, completely corrupted Shaladrassil, the very first World Tree.
We managed to defeat Xavius and helped Malfurion, Cenarius and druids to cleanse most of it, but a strong corruption core remains in the Rift of Aln, a dangerous part of the Emerald Dream. Shaladrassil isn't safe and there's still work to do there.

[Battle for Azeroth]
Teldrassil is burned down, which means that the last World Tree has been destroyed.
Beside the destruction of the Night Elves capital and an obvious declaration of war, what does the destruction of the last World Tree means?
Answer: it closes the door to the Emerald Dream.
And we know that Cenarius Circle was still fighting the Emerald Nightmare, so... Malfurion could be trapped... again.

[Five TORCHES to LIGHT our PATH] : Torches burn stuff
[Its surface BLAZES bright, masking the SHADOW below] Teldrassil is burning, closing the Emerald Dream until another World Tree is seeded. But Ysera is dead or waiting into the Emerald Dream to spawn. So even if Druids found a valid branch to seed another World Tree, Ysera couldn't bless it.
The connection is lost, the Old Gods' corruption can grow, faster stronger harder better, and nobody will be able to fight it.
Say goodbye to the Emerald Dream. And to Malfurion (probably).

[Battle for Azeroth bis]
Uldir is a freakin' place. A Titan facility where they tried to study the Old Gods' corruption, then later used by Zandalari Trolls. That could be the reason why Zandalari (the original Trolls) decided to avoid the C'thraxxi's corpse at the bottom of the mountains. They might have seen that Old Gods' corruption couldn't be fought, only contained.
While the Halls of Origination were the device that could use the Emerald Dream to restore uncorrupted life on Azeroth, Uldir would be an attempt to destroy corruption into the World Soul.
Or it could be the first version of Halls of Origination, and the source of corruption in the Rift of Aln.

Now what if someone used the device hidden in Uldir? What if the Emerald Dream was released?

Back to the topic:
Teldrassil is not a blind target. Somebody might told Sylvannas to use whatever she found in Silithus (a shard of Sargeras' sword?) on the World Tree, instead of Stormwind.
It would have be better to use it against the humans, because it was the first objective, but something happened and plans changed.
Like Blizzard said in Blizzcon: the real question is WHY Hord did burn Teldrassil.

Since my theory explains what would happen if there was no World Tree, I think the burning of Teldrassil was plotted by N'Zoth. But who is the pawn that would lead Sylvannas to attack the World Tree?

Really well written and actual important lore facts are being laid down which gave me quite a good perspective over the world tree issue and its importance. I do believe that the answer to your last puzzle piece, who is the pawn or helping Nzoth ploth this whole lot, has to do with Locus-Walker (if him most probably Alleria aswell) or any other undeveloped void entity/old god related character with seemingly increasing powers which we yet do not know of.
Also what a blast if Malfurion gets to be trapped (again) or dead, while Illidan is on guard duty, wonder what will Tyrande do then as she has noone else to chose to save

[Belisaurio]

What..? Your argument that Genn is bad is because he prevented Sylvanas from enslaving someone?

I... are you serious? Their future isn't even removed, they still have val'kyr.

From an Horde perspective, yes. From Alliance pov, he is a hero.
About their future, Thassarian believes that if the main val'kyrs dies (or Sylvanas die again and the remaining 4 ressurect her), the lesser Val'kyrs are going to drop their job (or something like that).
Another point is the Horde itself, that don't want them to ressurect people (in the game, we can still create new undeads characters, but you get the point).
Other points to take care, how many val'kyrs are still working for Sylvanas? There were some flying over Andoral (the ones that support Sylvanas), and from an interview, they are the ones that are still ressurecting players to still play undeads, but from a lore point, how many forsakens (or undeads) can ressurect?
Maybe my words weren't the best ones to use, maybe they are not removed, they are just doomed.

[DeicideUH]

From an Horde perspective, yes. From Alliance pov, he is a hero.
About their future, Thassarian believes that if the main val'kyrs dies (or Sylvanas die again and the remaining 4 ressurect her), the lesser Val'kyrs are going to drop their job (or something like that).
Another point is the Horde itself, that don't want them to ressurect people (in the game, we can still create new undeads characters, but you get the point).
Other points to take care, how many val'kyrs are still working for Sylvanas? There were some flying over Andoral (the ones that support Sylvanas), and from an interview, they are the ones that are still ressurecting players to still play undeads, but from a lore point, how many forsakens (or undeads) can ressurect?
Maybe my words weren't the best ones to use, maybe they are not removed, they are just doomed.

From what I understand, the lesser val'kyr are creations/summoning of the main val'kyr, and do not have the same powers (I believe the greater val'kyr borrow them their powers). They disappear once the greater val'kyr that spawned them is destroyed.

A greater val'kyr can resurrect forsaken undefinitely, I think, thought maybe not continuously. However, creating greater undead (such as Sylvanas and Nathanos) is very taxing and require them to either sacrifice a portion of themselves (making them permanently weaker) or to have a power source (like the Lich King) to draw power from.

Their future isn't even removed, they still have val'kyr.

But those val'kyr are few and can be destroyed. Sylvanas wanted Eyir because she was able to create new val'kyr.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

From an Horde perspective, yes. From Alliance pov, he is a hero.
About their future, Thassarian believes that if the main val'kyrs dies (or Sylvanas die again and the remaining 4 ressurect her), the lesser Val'kyrs are going to drop their job (or something like that).
Another point is the Horde itself, that don't want them to ressurect people (in the game, we can still create new undeads characters, but you get the point).
Other points to take care, how many val'kyrs are still working for Sylvanas? There were some flying over Andoral (the ones that support Sylvanas), and from an interview, they are the ones that are still ressurecting players to still play undeads, but from a lore point, how many forsakens (or undeads) can ressurect?
Maybe my words weren't the best ones to use, maybe they are not removed, they are just doomed.

Doesn't really matter about perspective, generally Undeath is considered a bad thing on both factions. The Forsaken may get really low numbers lorewise but gameplay they'll always be around. Don't even try and justify the Val'kyr nonsense.

[Belisaurio]

Doesn't really matter about perspective, generally Undeath is considered a bad thing on both factions. The Forsaken may get really low numbers lorewise but gameplay they'll always be around. Don't even try and justify the Val'kyr nonsense.

Undeath is considered a bad thing? Yes of course, don't take candys from knights of ebon blade!!!! or the forsaken (Horde only)...yeah, really bad people (don't mess with them). You know what is considered a bad thing too? Void and their powers...

I don't give a fu&% what's considered good or bad. Sylvanas has some points to act like that (you can argue about the morality behind her acts), Genn has some points too...don't like Genn or Sylvanas affairs? ok. Call them bad (point them with your finger if you want) and stop complaining.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Undeath is considered a bad thing? Yes of course, don't take candys from knights of ebon blade!!!! or the forsaken (Horde only)...yeah, really bad people (don't mess with them). You know what is considered a bad thing too? Void and their powers...

I don't give a fu&% what's considered good or bad. Sylvanas has some points to act like that (you can argue about the morality behind her acts, well, don't care about what you can argue btw), Genn has some points too...don't like them, that's Genn or Sylvanas movements? ok. Call them bad (point them with your finger if you want) and stop complaining.

Has nothing to do with the Ebon Blade but I see you seem to care little about what I'm trying to say so w/e

[Belisaurio]

Has nothing to do with the Ebon Blade but I see you seem to care little about what I'm trying to say so w/e

Sorry If I was rude in my last commentary.
But I don't understand what you want to say. From a gameplay perspective, yes, we are going to have infinite number of val'kyrs, but wow's gameplay don't move the story ahead (everytime we die, we just run in shadowlands looking for our corpse, that's impossible theoretically).

[Darktbs]

Carefull with your bias, it will bite you in the ass.

Sylvannas:

- was a high elf ranger of Silvermoon, allies of humans that came long time ago to ask High Elf's help during the Troll War.

The Elfs asked the Humans, thats why there was a trade that the elfs would teach 100 human in the ways of magic.

- died by the hand of a human (Arthas), son of Lordaeron's king, because this king didn't listen to the Prophet's warning (Medhiv)

You mean like everybody else that isn't thrall or jaina?Yeah, because a king should listen to a random person's saying.Try thinking like Terenas in the situation, would you really listen to a random person(he didn't know he was Medivh mind you)

- changed by this same human into a banshee, condemned to serve him and kill her own people

After said human was already corrupted by the Lich king and destroyed Lordaeron and basically became a undead.

- managed to use a racist and stupid human to take the undeads' former home: Lordaeron

But but, they were human as well, why Arthas is said to be Human in a way to blame them but the Undead suddenly are just undead.

- got enough nerves to not kill an angry red Orc.

its called not being stupid, if she killed Garrosh she would have, Gilneas, the Alliance and the Horde on ther throat.

Genn Greymane:

- did not move a finger during First war, because "Orcs were not a thing"

Neither did the elfs, or the dwarfs, or the gnomes or any other nation.Whats your point?

- joined Lordaeron during Second war "Orcs were f*cking real" and threatened his asses.

Everyone realized the thread was there, even then, Gilneas didn't want to join but did anyway, Silvermoon didn't even join the war until the Orcs knocked on their forests and even then, it was near the war's end.

- build a wall during third war because "this blight shall not pass"

"The Greymane Wall was erected after the Second War, by Genn Greymane, as the nation of Gilneas isolated itself from the Alliance due to a dispute surrounding the internment camps for the orcs. It is a large wall with a portcullis, located at the southern edge of the Silverpine Forest (near Pyrewood Village) and the northern edge of Gilneas."
Can you google?

- got stupidly contaminated by a worgen disease that came from a village next to his wall

"Archmage Arugal is a former mage of Dalaran who lived within the ruins of Shadowfang Keep and was later raised from the dead. He is most notorious for having unleashed the worgen once more unto the world by freeing them from the Emerald Dream."

- beside that, he was living in a beautiful and big manor where he built a huge telescope to spy on the Lordaeron situation, but was so selfishly occupied that he couldn't see what was happening outside his region.

uhm...Where did you take that from

- almost killed by Sylvannas but his son jumped to take the arrow.

If only Sylvanas was so noble as the son to die for her country, oh she did, and yet accomplished nothing.

How can you compare this fake whinning wolf to the Banshee Queen?

Both whine to much about a undead army that destroyed their country, is cursed into a non-natural state and now seeks revenge agaisn't the undead army and the leader that spaws it.

Varian should have executed Genn when Gilnean worgens joined Alliance and used his fur as a mantle.

And Thrall should said no to Sylvanas request to join and let her die by the scourge/Scarlet crusade and Alliance while hearing "The Banshee's scream"

[Deleted]

So I take it the emerald nightmare to manifest needs the tree (as in Valsharah ?) So since the nightmare cannot be really expelled (the small flower remains in the emerald dream) and maybe can affect the night elves assuming that it has some kind of connection with their long life span and possible immortality then they have to burn it down someway :P
Anyways i am quite intrigued since the class orders, the players and Khadgar, Velen, Illidan and Magni were the ones knowing the facts and were not responding to factions meaning that Anduin and Sylvanas know nothing so far and await for feedback frmo various sources.

[MidLifeCrits]

Has anyone considered that we will be facing a strengthened old god manipulation. They already mentioned that one of the bosses of this xpac will be Queen Azshara and we know she has been with the old gods since the Sundering. Above someone also mentioned a possible piece of Sargereas' sword being what was found. Azshara was obsessed with him. There are a lot of possibilities at this point. If it is truly a war crime style setting I can accept that, but I could easily see that both sides are being played by some other power. If burning the tree is truly the last seal on the old gods then we are playing directly into their hands.

[Wildberry]

You want it to be grey because you have Garrosh guilt.

The Garrosh/Hitler parallels run deeper than I thought...

[zlygork]

I'm really digging the Teldrassil as a direct source of azerite theory.

[Deleted]

My Theory:

[World Trees]
The very first World Tree is Shaladrassil.
A World Tree allows a connection between the physical world and the Emerald Dream, the plane of Life and Nature.
After the first Legion's invasion, Cenarius and Malfurion seeded another World Tree because Shaladrassil was corrupted.
They planted the seeds in Hyjal, using a branch from G'Hanir, and named the World Tree Nordrassil. The World Tree was blessed by the Dragon Aspects of Life, Nature and Time.
Nightelves tried to plant another World Tree in Northrend, Vordrassil, but it was corrupted by Yogg'Saron.

[Vanilla]
After the destruction of Nordrassil, the World Tree in Hyjal, Night Elves seeded another World Tree on Teldrassil. This World Tree wasn't blessed by the Dragon Aspects so corruption started to invade it through the Emerald Dream.
Malfurion and other Cenarius circle druids were fighting the "Nightmare" in the Emerald Dream and couldn't escape because there was no "blessed" World Tree.

[Wrath of the Lich King]
Loken, one of the Keepers, was corrupted by Yogg'Saron.
He made a deal with Helya and plotted against Odyn (the Prime Keeper) to take his place.
Loken was helping Yogg'Saron to break from its prison, so we killed Loken.
By killing the Prime Keeper, we triggered a security system calling the Celestial in charge of Azeroth, named Algalon.
Algalon's job is to check the sanity of the World Soul and the corruption over its surface.
We defeat Yogg'Saron but Algalon was already there, and after several tests he decided to push the big red button in Halls of Origination.
We stopped Algalon and proved ourselves worthy to defend Azeroth from corruption.
We met the Dragon Aspects of Life (Alextraza) and Nature (Ysera), who decided to bless Teldrassil, and by the way, freeing Malfurion from the Emerald Dream.

[Cataclysm]
N'Zoth asks Deathwing/Neltharion to use the Halls of Origination. The reason: the Emerald Nightmare started by Yogg'Saron is now handled by N'Zoth and grows well. If life is erased from the surface and the Emerald Dream resets it, the Emerald Nightmare will corrupt a good part of the planet.
We stopped Deathwing to use the Halls of Origination and deactivated the device of reorigination with Brann Bronzebeard's help.

[Mist Of Pandaria]
Later we find a captive Keeper: Ra (or Ra-Den) who was the Keeper in charge of South Kalimdor and the Halls of Origination. When we met him, he broke his chains and was on his way to use the device of reorigination, but we stopped him

[Legion]
The Emerald Nightmare, still empowered by N'Zoth and invaded by Xavius, completely corrupted Shaladrassil, the very first World Tree.
We managed to defeat Xavius and helped Malfurion, Cenarius and druids to cleanse most of it, but a strong corruption core remains in the Rift of Aln, a dangerous part of the Emerald Dream. Shaladrassil isn't safe and there's still work to do there.

[Battle for Azeroth]
Teldrassil is burned down, which means that the last World Tree has been destroyed.
Beside the destruction of the Night Elves capital and an obvious declaration of war, what does the destruction of the last World Tree means?
Answer: it closes the door to the Emerald Dream.
And we know that Cenarius Circle was still fighting the Emerald Nightmare, so... Malfurion could be trapped... again.

[Five TORCHES to LIGHT our PATH] : Torches burn stuff
[Its surface BLAZES bright, masking the SHADOW below] Teldrassil is burning, closing the Emerald Dream until another World Tree is seeded. But Ysera is dead or waiting into the Emerald Dream to spawn. So even if Druids found a valid branch to seed another World Tree, Ysera couldn't bless it.
The connection is lost, the Old Gods' corruption can grow, faster stronger harder better, and nobody will be able to fight it.
Say goodbye to the Emerald Dream. And to Malfurion (probably).

[Battle for Azeroth bis]
Uldir is a freakin' place. A Titan facility where they tried to study the Old Gods' corruption, then later used by Zandalari Trolls. That could be the reason why Zandalari (the original Trolls) decided to avoid the C'thraxxi's corpse at the bottom of the mountains. They might have seen that Old Gods' corruption couldn't be fought, only contained.
While the Halls of Origination were the device that could use the Emerald Dream to restore uncorrupted life on Azeroth, Uldir would be an attempt to destroy corruption into the World Soul.
Or it could be the first version of Halls of Origination, and the source of corruption in the Rift of Aln.

Now what if someone used the device hidden in Uldir? What if the Emerald Dream was released?

Back to the topic:
Teldrassil is not a blind target. Somebody might told Sylvannas to use whatever she found in Silithus (a shard of Sargeras' sword?) on the World Tree, instead of Stormwind.
It would have be better to use it against the humans, because it was the first objective, but something happened and plans changed.
Like Blizzard said in Blizzcon: the real question is WHY Hord did burn Teldrassil.

Since my theory explains what would happen if there was no World Tree, I think the burning of Teldrassil was plotted by N'Zoth. But who is the pawn that would lead Sylvannas to attack the World Tree?

Exactly what i had in mind when i saw the cinematic with it burning.
The five keys/torches could refer to them world trees. Old God invasion and corruption could start from the emerald dream/nightmare (and not from the sea as we all expect with queen azhara and the naga serving as an active army).
Moonglade could be what blazes masking the shadows below.
As for the lord of the ravens it could be someone from the druids (malfurion himself maybe?) and their talon order...
All in all burning down every non sealed gateway for w/e reason could have a meaning although it could be perceived as an act of open warfare from the alliance since malfurion and the nelf druids could be trapped inside.

[ello]

Old God corruption is a little played out, but I'm still rooting for it.

I just don't want another Theramore, not after MoP.

[FuxieDK]

A thought I had, and.. I admit I'm not well versed in the tree-lore of the Night elves.. but to make the whole starting a war thing more nuanced..

Could Teldrassil be corrupted, either by emerald dream or, well, any other way.

Horde hears of this, and worry something bad might come of it, night elves want to save it, Horde goes "Don't want to risk that shit, get the matches."

To me it's one of the few ways burning it seems logical, and it'd put some gray tones of morality to the whole war instead of "Sylvanas did it for the lols.".. which I hope to god is not the route Blizzard is going with. But storytelling the last few expansions has me worried.

Quid pro quo ---> sense made..

[Wildberry]

I'm not the one saying 'not my horde' lulz

I was more so referring to the types that are bothered by this because we're the aggressors. They really are the equivalent of Europeans with WWII-guilt crammed down their throat.

[Deleted]

It is a fucking tree. Burning it for strategic reasons is the only 'logic' you require.

There is nothing wrong with offencive war.
Folk stopped drinking milk and started to talk in language of the limp. You need iron, a lot of it. Spine reconstruction: approved.