Adding flying mounts was the worst thing Blizzard ever did with WoW

[Deleted]

I personally think you are over estimate the occurrence of people stopping by to help a complete stranger. In all the expansion, flying was available near the end of the expansion. So people still had to level on the ground. And from my experience, this stopping and helping a stranger rarely happened. And hardly anyone stopped to strike conversation except to complete some group quest.

By your assertion that flying was the cause, at the start of WoD and Legion, before flying was enabled, did you experience this renewal of social interaction now that people are on the ground? If so, I would have expected you say how great it is now levelling because more people are talking, rather than continue with the complain that flying destroyed the game.

Flying was a huge factor in the death of realm communities and real social interaction, but not the sole factor obviously. By the time of WOTLK there were NO realm communities left, let alone WOD and Legion.
The reason people were much more helpful and willing to go out of their way to assist people in vanilla was because the world was tough and unforgiving and you died a hell of a lot more. Not so in the later expansions, you could breeze through without much of an issue. And let's not forgot about the class homogenization and the removal of buffs so you can't even buff random people, not that they needed them.

Let's list a small number of what not having flying would encourage you to do when the world wasn't so easy.
-Buffing people
-Ressing people
-Grouping up for quests / difficult areas
-Mutual protection
-Giving advice
-World PVP
etc.

Most of these are no longer applicable to retail even if you remove flying.
-Can't buff people
-World is so easy most people don't die or if they do a graveyard is 30 sec away
-Almost no group quests or hard areas
-Quest tracker tells you exactly where to go
etc.

Due to how much the game has changed, the only thing delaying flying mounts does is encourage world PVP. So yeah, while flying played a huge role in the destruction of communities it was not the sole reason.

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This was NEVER my experience, and I've been playing since mid-vanilla. You didn't stop doing what you were doing just because someone else was nearby. In many cases someone else questing or farming near you meant you had to compete for kills or gathering nodes. You send an invite or a PM to ask if they wanted to team up and they either ignored you or told you to go away because "This is my farm".

Flying doesn't change or alter how people react. Your example is a pure, unadulterated example of "correlation does not imply causation".

Cross server technology did more harm to each server's community than anything. It made it convenient and easy to find groups, but also filled the pool of available players with utter randoms that you'd never see again, meaning you could be as big of an A-hole as you wanted without consequence.

Real class balance also damaged the community feeling on a server, since your ability to stand out as "that badass healer" or "that super good tank" because suddenly EVERYONE could do well instead of just the people playing warriors or priests. The ability to prove yourself and build a reputation was drowned as the pool of people who were doing the same thing increased tenfold.

Then there were websites like WoWhead which started giving players easy access to anything and everything they needed to know. DPS meters popped up. Gearscore became a thing. All of these contributed towards not having to rely on other PEOPLE to figure things out. You could just go to a website or an addon instead of asking a friend or guildy. No one had to teach you how to play because you could watch a strategy video or fire up a DPS meter. You didn't have to go into general chat and ask where Mankirk's wife is, or hit up a friend who'd done a quest before because it's right there at your fingertips on google.

People like you REALLY want a scapegoat, and so turn to blaming flight for all the problems of WoW. So let me repeat this for you, and every other person who likes to hate on flight:

FLYING WASN'T A PROBLEM UNTIL BLIZZARD MADE IT INTO ONE.

What complete garbage.

People were MUCH more helpful before flying. When pulling 2 mobs meant death, and death was a 5 min run from the single graveyard in the zone (if you're lucky enough to have one in your zone), when buffs were incredibly helpful and powerful and you helped someone you saw struggling because you knew death was a real punishment.

Realms were on life support long before they implemented CRZ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0ygAfTYKXk

I suggest you watch Preaches Top 5 WoW Regrets, skip to 11:40 for the part about flying.

I genuinely can't comprehend people who whinge about not being able to fly. I'm guessing these are the same people who are happy that WoW has slowly been changing into more of a singleplayer game with MMO elements year after year.

[SirCowdog]

People were MUCH more helpful before flying.

Yes, as we all know, the moment a player obtains flying he/she immediately becomes 200% more assholish. Truly, the second flying is available random scrubnubs everywhere stop being able to play the game because random grounded strangers cease to carry them. /sarcasm

Do you even think about what you're posting? There is no possible way you can prove that flying is directly responsible for people being less helpful, or that being grounded somehow intrinsically makes people more helpful.

When pulling 2 mobs meant death, and death was a 5 min run from the single graveyard in the zone (if you're lucky enough to have one in your zone), when buffs were incredibly helpful and powerful and you helped someone you saw struggling because you knew death was a real punishment.

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with flying, and everything to do with the difficulty and settings of the mobs and encounters. Also, pulling 2 mobs was NEVER a death sentence unless you were playing vanilla in a zone with enemies 5 levels above you. Any competent player could easily handle 2 enemies unless they were elite. And even then it was entirely possible to use crowd control or pets to escape death.

And this doesn't even go into the fact that many of the best farming spots were often jealously defended by guilds and players who often didn't want you around, stealing their loot or tagging their mobs. Which again, has NOTHING to do with being able to fly.

You just have a very skewed view of how things used to be, and seem to be seeking to create reasons to hate flight or blame it for aspects of the game that it literally has nothing to do with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0ygAfTYKXk

I suggest you watch Preaches Top 5 WoW Regrets, skip to 11:40 for the part about flying.

Did you completely miss the part where that video was posted on April 1st?

Jesus bro....I thought you could do better than this, but I guess you actually can't.

I genuinely can't comprehend people who whinge about not being able to fly. I'm guessing these are the same people who are happy that WoW has slowly been changing into more of a singleplayer game with MMO elements year after year.

So basically we can sum up your entire argument as: "People like things that I don't like, and that sucks. Everyone should like the same thing I like, or they're whiny and bad. I want the game to be GREAT! How it used to be, way back in vanilla when we, as gamers, didn't know any better."

This is why I have zero respect for the anti-flying point of view. I just really hope Blizzard hurries up and gives you guys vanilla servers so you can take your nonsensical point of view and stupid arguments to that giant stinking pile of shit that was vanilla, and stay the hell away from the rest of us.

[Daffan]

It's only true for the tiny faction of the player base which plays exclusively one character and will never ever create an alt. For people who are playing multiple characters, these things only make life easier and enable this playstyle. Playing multiple characters is also a big reason for people staying while others leave during the so-called "content droughts". You clearly don't know what you are talking about.

So why don't they make it alt-catchup instead of the pervasive catchup that invalidates content you never did? Or that makes rewards feel meaningless?

Alts gearing for most is even worse , because they have lesser gear then your main, gearing them for the average player is even more a waste of time. If catchup gear is better then the average players mains, their alts are going to get decimated. I didn't even bother playing my alts too seriously because gearing them was done for me by Blizzard.

care to elaborate?

Cata, DS comes out and you could get full Ilvl 378 in a day which was better then T11/T12 (Which was 10x better content then DS) All other content was irrelevant even if you never did it, so you just spent 13 months doing DS.

Mists, you could get Ilvl 510 in a day with Timeless isle, skipping all content. Everyone just sat around doing SoO for 14 months.

Warlords, same deal. 13 Months of HFC and all other content was useless even if you never did it.

I'm hesitant to include WoTLK as it was half-half. Ulduar was the best raid ever made and most people just skipped right over it because ToC 5 mans with ezmode epics let you go right into ToC 10/25, the worst raid ever made. Luckily ICC was incredible and salvaged it, so most have fond memories.

[Altrec]

No it wasn't..

Restricting flight after it was implemented, was the worst thing Blizzard ever did.

You sir are 100% correct.

[SirCowdog]

Cata, DS comes out and you could get full 378 in a day which was better then the first two raid tiers (Which was 10x better content then DS) All other content was irrelevant even if you never did it, so you just spent 13 months doing DS.

Mists, you could get ilvl 510 in a day with Timeless isle, skipping all content. Everyone just sat around doing SoO for 14 months because everything else was pointless.

Warlords, same deal. 13 Months of HFC and all other content was useless even if you never did it.

I'm hesitant to include WoTLK as it was half-half. Ulduar was the best raid ever made and most people just skipped right over it because ToC 5 mans with ezmode epics let you skip right into ToC 10/25, the worst raid ever made. Luckily ICC was incredible and salvaged it.

I'm not sure how this is relevant to flying, but wouldn't gear scaling for raids within an expansion alleviate the problems you just described? It would place the focus on playing skillfully instead of simply outgearing the raid content. It would also add longevity to raid content instead of invalidating it the moment a new tier was released.

Progression would focus on working up through normal to mythic for each raid instead of just going to the highest tier raid available. This would seem to work well with the M+ system of gearing through dungeons, since it would just mean you'd move up from normal to heroic, or heroic to mythic raiding if your gear got too powerful through M+.

[XDurionX]

Flying should have stayed in outland and died with bc, true that.

[Makatafinger]

I have been playing since early Vanilla and I'm very happy that flying mounts were added. I don't have time to run through a zone to turn in a quest while pulling all the mobs, dying, running back to my corpse.

I really don't see how it ruined the game. Maybe World PVP but the whole game? nah..

[Corroc]

Cata, DS comes out and you could get full Ilvl 378 in a day which was better then T11/T12 (Which was 10x better content then DS) All other content was irrelevant even if you never did it, so you just spent 13 months doing DS.

Mists, you could get Ilvl 510 in a day with Timeless isle, skipping all content. Everyone just sat around doing SoO for 14 months.

Warlords, same deal. 13 Months of HFC and all other content was useless even if you never did it.

I'm hesitant to include WoTLK as it was half-half. Ulduar was the best raid ever made and most people just skipped right over it because ToC 5 mans with ezmode epics let you go right into ToC 10/25, the worst raid ever made. Luckily ICC was incredible and salvaged it, so most have fond memories.

Its actually better for player base to introduce "gear tokens" because that means they can raid even if they didn't play the last year or so. They will still have to progress normal/heroic mode if they want to get to mythic.
So for one your complaint is pretty much elitist whining how someone else gets gear too easily, this doesn't affect your gameplay at all but still you seem to get riled up by it. And for two, this has absolutely nothing to do with content drought. Content drought is just bad pacing by blizzard. Nothing else.

[IIamaKing]

Opinions being like assholes, I will kindly say, Yours STINKS. Flying mounts are great.

[Deleted]

@SirCowdog

Not going to quote that wall of rubbish as you clearly lack reading comprehension.

I'll just leave it you still can't give me a reason why flying was a good idea and how it didn't remove far more than it gave.

And I love how you think vanilla was a pile of shit (probably never played, like most of the spoon fed anti-vanilla people), but you're here in the vanilla server section clogging up threads with your useless drivel.

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Its actually better for player base to introduce "gear tokens" because that means they can raid even if they didn't play the last year or so. They will still have to progress normal/heroic mode if they want to get to mythic.
So for one your complaint is pretty much elitist whining how someone else gets gear too easily, this doesn't affect your gameplay at all but still you seem to get riled up by it. And for two, this has absolutely nothing to do with content drought. Content drought is just bad pacing by blizzard. Nothing else.

And here's a perfect example of the current player base which Blizzard has slowly indoctrinated into believing that only the latest tier of raid content matters. And someone who is just generally clueless.

Gear tokens and catch up mechanics are the sole reason we have only one tier of current content. It used to be ALL tiers of raids were getting regularly run by many different guilds, regardless of what the latest tier was.
It didn't matter if you joined late in the expansion or early, there was always guilds progressing at different rates and their own pace and you could always find a guild starting out raiding. This meant if you joined half way through an expansion, you had so much content to experience, not just the latest tier.

In TBC, widely considered to be one of the best expansions Blizzard ever created, when BT was opened there was still guilds that were progressing through Kara / Gruul and it was easy to join a 10 man raiding guild. Hell, when SWP was released I was still trying to kill Kael in TK. And that was FINE. I progressed at my own pace, it was my own journey. (though they started to fuck up in TBC with the free catch up gear in the isle of quel thalas...) I didn't give a shit my guild was 2 raid tiers behind, we were having a blast going at our own pace.

And yes, this one tier of current content is the sole reason the content droughts are so bad.

Funny thing is, the real elitists are the people that whine for catch up mechanics and the ability to skip all the non-latest content. I honestly feel bad for the people who join late in expansions and never get to experience the previous raids as they were intended.

[Chaelexi]

wtf with these haters these days. you cant pet battle and thats why its bad?

and no flying is fine and should be avail through pathfinder from the launch of an xpac for everywhere.

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100% right.

There are already way too many things to do at the start of an Xpac. Gating pathfinder is the right way to go if you are not able to completely remove flying.

[Linri]

i don't mind the flying mounts, sure it makes things easier, but i have never come to "rely" on them

[Daffan]

I'm not sure how this is relevant to flying, but wouldn't gear scaling for raids within an expansion alleviate the problems you just described? It would place the focus on playing skillfully instead of simply outgearing the raid content. It would also add longevity to raid content instead of invalidating it the moment a new tier was released.

Progression would focus on working up through normal to mythic for each raid instead of just going to the highest tier raid available. This would seem to work well with the M+ system of gearing through dungeons, since it would just mean you'd move up from normal to heroic, or heroic to mythic raiding if your gear got too powerful through M+.

I only posted that because someone asked a question to clarify my first post.

I did not think flying was the biggest mistake Blizzard made, but rather what I said above.

Its actually better for player base to introduce "gear tokens" because that means they can raid even if they didn't play the last year or so. They will still have to progress normal/heroic mode if they want to get to mythic.
So for one your complaint is pretty much elitist whining how someone else gets gear too easily, this doesn't affect your gameplay at all but still you seem to get riled up by it. And for two, this has absolutely nothing to do with content drought. Content drought is just bad pacing by blizzard. Nothing else.

What If I told you I became a casual who never raided Mythic in Legion and instead just hates welfare because it plays the game for me. Why am I farming M+ for ez TF gear when next patch It'l be done for me, wtf I missed raid tiers when they were current in this expansion and now they are obsolete you cant do anymore. The only people this system doesn't effect are the Mythic raiders because they are always doing the latest content ASAP and welfare doesn't effect them (They never use it) the complete opposite of what you are saying.

Your right about pacing tho, Blizzard should just release a raid every 30 days to keep everyone happy, since free gearing and other boosts making their content worthless isn't a problem at all /s

Ion Hazzikostas said it best himself...

When Blizzard "gives away" (relatively speaking) a tier X+3 item to someone in tier X gear, they're basically invalidating a portion of their tier X+1 and X+2 content. Items aren't just "loot" -- remember, they are the only method of progressing your character. To use leveling as an analogy, large skips in item progression are like giving level 62 players a quest that lets them skip to level 67 upon its completion. Players might appreciate such a quest, but its existence would by definition obsolete most of the level 63-66 content.

[Army Dreamer]

Do you realize the point of no flying is that you encounter other people because they don't get to fly either ?

No. I don't care.

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I wish it were that simple.

It is really just that simple.

[bryroo]

Do you realize the point of no flying is that you encounter other people because they don't get to fly either ?

That's right because before flying if you encountered strangers on the road you'd have hour long tea parties and make lifelong friendships that lasted forever and ever.

[lesty]

I don't like flying, but its going to be impossible to convince the rest of the playerbase who would be super unhappy with it. I don't like how there's no threat or danger while flying in the world. I remember in wrath, those menancing gates and those gigantic hordes meant nothing to me as I was able to fly through over them. I could even fly to the top of ICC, it made the world feel so insignificant, I didnt respect the topography or the enemies in the world.

I think the Legion/Warlords model is very reasonable and a very fair balance towards both camps.

[Deleted]

No. I don't care.

You should care, because "People don't want to fly" and "People don't want flying" have different meanings, telling someone that wants flying to be disabled not to fly is sidestepping the argument.

That's right because before flying if you encountered strangers on the road you'd have hour long tea parties and make lifelong friendships that lasted forever and ever.

Or you'd fight them if they're members of the opposite faction.

[Corroc]

And here's a perfect example of the current player base which Blizzard has slowly indoctrinated into believing that only the latest tier of raid content matters. And someone who is just generally clueless.

Gear tokens and catch up mechanics are the sole reason we have only one tier of current content. It used to be ALL tiers of raids were getting regularly run by many different guilds, regardless of what the latest tier was.
It didn't matter if you joined late in the expansion or early, there was always guilds progressing at different rates and their own pace and you could always find a guild starting out raiding. This meant if you joined half way through an expansion, you had so much content to experience, not just the latest tier.

In TBC, widely considered to be one of the best expansions Blizzard ever created, when BT was opened there was still guilds that were progressing through Kara / Gruul and it was easy to join a 10 man raiding guild. Hell, when SWP was released I was still trying to kill Kael in TK. And that was FINE. I progressed at my own pace, it was my own journey. (though they started to fuck up in TBC with the free catch up gear in the isle of quel thalas...) I didn't give a shit my guild was 2 raid tiers behind, we were having a blast going at our own pace.

And yes, this one tier of current content is the sole reason the content droughts are so bad.

Funny thing is, the real elitists are the people that whine for catch up mechanics and the ability to skip all the non-latest content. I honestly feel bad for the people who join late in expansions and never get to experience the previous raids as they were intended.

At first I wrote a long reply to this explaining how raiding current content was in classic and tbc but I decided that its pointless. So I'm just going to say that your idea of raiding is flawed.

[Mumba]

Not at all, but it's probably one of the things they regret when you look at how much flak they get whenver "no flying" is mentioned.

[Army Dreamer]

You should care, because "People don't want to fly" and "People don't want flying" have different meanings, telling someone that wants flying to be disabled not to fly is sidestepping the argument.



Or you'd fight them if they're members of the opposite faction.

Can't imagine how can you fly without flying enabled.