Blizzard Should Make Mythic Raids Personal Loot

[Myta]

Already an incensing title. This is going to make people very angry, but hear me out, on why this is good not only for the short term, but long term health of the game.

Gear is not rewarding enough, and at the same time it is TOO rewarding.

With Split Raids, Mythic/Heroic and Mythic+ all being their own difficulty tiers, with titanforging, raiders have had access to more gear in Legion compared to any other raid in WoW.

However at the same time, each individual trinket or item is robbed of it's significance, back in the day when you got that item, it was more important. Now it feels like if you get the item you're after but it's not Titanforged a bazillion times, it's junk because it's not a marginal ilvl upgrade over your current one.

Raid Bosses in Legion are wildly out of tune with each other, and a huge culprit of this is the design of the encounters themselves.

Since titanforge is so prevalent players were basically end game geared by the time of Nighthold release, this required Nighthold and further raids to be designed in a way that they were so punishing gear isn't a factor.

You might assume that means the problem is Titanforging.

No, I don't. The problem is the sheer quantity of gear people are able to acquire, allowing for the increased likelihood of rolling crazy Titanforge pieces. If gear wasn't rewarded to players at such an extreme quanity, this issue wouldn't be prevalent. A titanforged item should be rare, not expected.

So why enforce Personal Loot

Blizzard has already said they plan to tweak Titanforging chances, this should fix 99% of all issues with the rest of the game. BfA tuning should be far more controlled overall due to this change.

However that 1% is an outlier where Mythic raiding currently enforces split runs more than any other expansion, with Method raiding twice the hours of the #2 guild. The Mythic world first race is DEAD, there is zero competition, it comes down solely to the quantity of split raids a guild is capable of doing to enable the plethora of well geared alts to come in at a moment's notice for stacking purposes. Bosses have to be tuned to ridiculous degrees even more to prevent these guilds from just walking over them, making one Mythic for Method, and another Mythic for top 200 guilds, and a 3rd Mythic for top 1000 guilds.

I have been raiding since WoW began, and it has never been this bad, raids are lasting shorter than ever, the burnout rate is insane right now due to rampant, and aggravating 'wipe the raid' mechanics that serve no purpose but to frustrate, bosses like Kil'jaeden in his current state are just not fun, they are infuriating, players are more geared than ever, but at the same time fights are designed so they can't be brute forced towards the end of a tier's life.

And most of all, Antorus will launch with less than a thousand guilds having downing Kil'jaeden. Guilds who have been raiding since the start of WoW, who've downed the final boss on the hardest difficulty every tier for over a decade have stopped raiding in Legion.

It's time to push Personal Loot as the only option for Mythic raiding. You can increase the rate so PL for Mythic is better than PL for Heroic. Kill split raids, forever, this should not be a thing. Need an alt for Method, have alt raids. But split raids and gear feeding? It needs to be dead for good. Then and only then can you tune the raids properly and make world first and server firsts actually have meaning again.

[Deja Thoris]

No.

Choice and control belong with the players. If 20 nerds with no impulse control want to farm 76 split runs thats their problem. Why should my ability to distribute loot equitably be influenced by them?

[Temp name]

No they should not. If you're pushing mythic you should be able to not rage about loot, and just wait your turn to get the item. Let the loot help progress, not your padding.

[thunderdragon2]

until they remove wf/tf/sockets no, also are you in a top 100 world guild? if not why do you care about the race also you could make the mythic lock account wide or even bnet account wide

[Tradu]

Fuck no. And the issue is definitely titanforging. If there were fewer loot drops, you'd just see even more extreme outliers and more of a gap between lucky people and unlucky people, because at least the increased amount of loot somewhat smooths out the titanforging RNG.
PL also wouldn't kill multiple raids/split raids. You'd just use the characters that got luckiest, and PL also allows trading(so the main reason for splits, tier and trinkets, would still be there, as the heroic ones would be tradeable due to their ilevel being lower than last tier's mythic)

[ONCHEhap]

Being able to handle loot yourselves is part of mythic raiding.No

Personnal loot is a terrible thing that was introduced because pugs are too retarded to handle loot,mythic is not aimed at pugs.

[thunderdragon2]

Being able to handle loot yourselves is part of mythic raiding.No

Personnal loot is a terrible thing that was introduced because pugs are too retarded to handle loot,mythic is not aimed at pugs.

its not that ppl are too retarded to deal with loot but most pug raid leaders are selfish pricks and will ninja what they want at the earliest opertunity

[Myta]

Fuck no. And the issue is definitely titanforging. If there were fewer loot drops, you'd just see even more extreme outliers and more of a gap between lucky people and unlucky people, because at least the increased amount of loot somewhat smooths out the titanforging RNG.
PL also wouldn't kill multiple raids/split raids. You'd just use the characters that got luckiest, and PL also allows trading(so the main reason for splits, tier and trinkets, would still be there, as the heroic ones would be tradeable due to their ilevel being lower than last tier's mythic)

That is why you restrict the amount of PL loot a person can receive in a trade to 1 piece, and not give them all the leather that drops. This would also thankfully kill toxic sale runs.

Titantforging is only a symptom of the underlying disease, dealing with the symptoms without a cure will just kick the can down the street. You may not like it because it feels bad to you, but I consider it more important that the raid situation in Legion never happens again.

And frankly, just because it makes people happy to get equipped with full +5000 ilvl titanforge does not mean it is healthy for the game at all.

[ThePants999]

Erm - am I missing something?

You're suggesting that Mythic be forced to personal as a solution to split raids.

But split raids are mostly in Heroic, aren't they? It's what the top guilds do in Heroic week, and right at the start of Mythic week, to make sure their mains have maximum Heroic gear (e.g. new tier set, trinkets) in preparation for the Mythic push. Changing the loot mode in Mythic will make split runs MORE important, not less!

[tkioz]

No.

Choice and control belong with the players. If 20 nerds with no impulse control want to farm 76 split runs thats their problem. Why should my ability to distribute loot equitably be influenced by them?

Amen brother (sister? non-binary sibling? )! Preach it!

I get that split runs are a problem, but honestly they are a self-imposed problem that effects a tiny minority of the player base that play at the very cutting edge of content. For 99.9% of raiders its not even an issue, which is why almost all 'solutions' that get thrown out are worse than the current issues. Why should someone in a heroic raiding group be prevented from doing a normal run on the weekend with his or her friends because a few hundred of the ultra hardcore can't moderate themselves?

[Temp name]

Erm - am I missing something?

You're suggesting that Mythic be forced to personal as a solution to split raids.

But split raids are mostly in Heroic, aren't they? It's what the top guilds do in Heroic week, and right at the start of Mythic week, to make sure their mains have maximum Heroic gear (e.g. new tier set, trinkets) in preparation for the Mythic push. Changing the loot mode in Mythic will make split runs MORE important, not less!

Good guilds also run mythic splits later in the tier to get all their alts geared for the next one. Every character method is running Antorus with will be in 940+

[Tradu]

Erm - am I missing something?

You're suggesting that Mythic be forced to personal as a solution to split raids.

But split raids are mostly in Heroic, aren't they? It's what the top guilds do in Heroic week, and right at the start of Mythic week, to make sure their mains have maximum Heroic gear (e.g. new tier set, trinkets) in preparation for the Mythic push. Changing the loot mode in Mythic will make split runs MORE important, not less!

Yes, this too. It doesn't even address the main issue. Split mythic raids once on farm aren't as big a deal as getting the new OP tier/trinkets at the start of one, and as you said, that happens on heroic.

[Myta]

Erm - am I missing something?

You're suggesting that Mythic be forced to personal as a solution to split raids.

But split raids are mostly in Heroic, aren't they? It's what the top guilds do in Heroic week, and right at the start of Mythic week, to make sure their mains have maximum Heroic gear (e.g. new tier set, trinkets) in preparation for the Mythic push. Changing the loot mode in Mythic will make split runs MORE important, not less!

I meant all raids, like how Mythic+ is now, but it's too late to fix the title.

I like the Mythic+ gearing model.

[Tradu]

I meant all raids, like how Mythic+ is now, but it's too late to fix the title.

I like the Mythic+ gearing model.

Might I recommend playing Diablo 3, then, it has the exact same model as M+. A new season just started, so it's a great time to get into it.

[Myta]

Might I recommend playing Diablo 3, then, it has the exact same model as M+. A new season just started, so it's a great time to get into it.

How about fixing WoW so that there's no horrendous tuning brought on by guilds that split raid 12 hours a day.

You want to defend a failed system "because that's how it's always been done!" that is currently destroying guilds that have been raiding the hardest raids for 16 years now, but no longer can because Blizzard balances they entire system around ONE guild.

[ONCHEhap]

its not that ppl are too retarded to deal with loot but most pug raid leaders are selfish pricks and will ninja what they want at the earliest opertunity

Yeah,too retarded to deal with loot

[Tradu]

How about fixing WoW so that there's no horrendous tuning brought on by guilds that split raid 12 hours a day.

You want to defend a failed system "because that's how it's always been done!" that is currently destroying guilds that have been raiding the hardest raids for 16 years now, but no longer can because Blizzard balances they entire system around ONE guild.

I'm defending masterloot because it's the best loot system for organized raiding, yes. Blizzard just shouldn't tune around Method/Exorsus, they have that choice. Tune around top10 or top50 or so instead.

[Myta]

Tune around top10 or top50 or so instead.

Uh, no. There were thousands of M Archimonde kills going by the current length of raid content. Not even Naxxramas, which was only seen by 1% of vanilla players was Top50, it was still in the Top1000 guild range.

What you want is honestly for only 50 guilds in the world to have a shot at beating the final boss before nerfs which was never the case before Legion, even during Sunwell. That's total goofballs.

WoD was extreme but it was far more balanced raid-wise than Legion, but it still had the same issues. Titanforging isn't the problem, split raiding is. It's been a problem since Wrath and has only intensified every raid tier and expansion until we are here. Kicking the can down the street is not a solution.

[Tradu]

Uh, no. There were thousands of M Archimonde kills going by the current length of raid content. Not even Naxxramas, which was only seen by 1% of vanilla players was Top50, it was still in the Top1000 guild range.

What you want is honestly for only 50 guilds in the world to have a shot at beating the final boss before nerfs which was never the case before Legion, even during Sunwell. That's total goofballs.

WoD was extreme but it was far more balanced raid-wise than Legion, but it still had the same issues. Titanforging isn't the problem, split raiding is. It's been a problem since Wrath and has only intensified every raid tier and expansion until we are here. Kicking the can down the street is not a solution.

No, tune it around those guilds(top50 or whatever) in the gear they have when they reach it, let other people overgear it(which is just not really a thing in Legion raids, thanks to them being tuned around WF/TF gear in the first place). You know, instead of tuning around Method and then repeatedly nerfing the content. And again, your "solution" doesn't do anything because heroic is where the relevant splits happen, not mythic. I'm not saying it's not a problem, I'm saying they shouldn't tune around it. Too bad if Method etc clear it in the first week instead of 2nd/3rd week.
Archimonde and Kil'jaeden also aren't really comparable, and there weren't thousands of kills after 5 months. I should know, my guild was ~350 and we killed it in November. Compare it to Blackhand maybe, which had 800ish kills by the time HFC released, which KJ should also be close to by the time Antorus opens.

[Myta]

And again, your "solution" doesn't do anything because heroic is where the relevant splits happen, not mythic.

I addressed that before in an earlier post, it was a mistake I made in the topic. My argument makes sense however understanding that I mean disabling master loot/group loot as an option globally.