The WoW Classic community is entering a civil war.

[Deficineiron]

Except Blizzard themselves have said they aren't making Vanilla+. You people come into these threads and argue about this without even reading what Blizzard has said about the topic. It's like coming to a discussion in a class without having done the assigned reading.

on what basis is a forward-looking statement on game design intent from blizzard considered 'fact?'

[einaschern]

I don't get it, what kind of hand holding are you talking about?

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[Mackeith]

100%. If you pull like a moron in any version of wow you will die. Granted some versions take more mobs then others. I don't know what to tell you, if leveling is hard for you?

You're literally describing the difference between any difficulty level in a game. Generic shooter: take 1 bullet(read: mob) you die = hardest difficulty. Take 4 bullets(read: mobs) you die = easier difficulty. But no, that's not an accurate description of difficulty for you apparently.

I guess there's just no reasoning with you. Feel free to stay delusional then. Have a nice day.

[Maudib]

Yes, the causal MMO of 2004 is super hard. This is why I love these threads low post alt account!

Hard and hand holding are two different things. There was nothing "hard" about WoW, ever. Which begs to ask, "Why was so much handholding added?"

Because the development team changed over time. Passionate people left or simply got tired of the game. Mathheads from Elitist Jerks were hired along with the "new wave" of college educated, untalented, game developer wannabes who think razzle, dazzle, graphics, and legendaries are how you make games.

What you have is WoD then Legion... and soon Battle for Azeroth. Glittery, shiny, empty, shallow, and boring grinding for AP/Azerite to fill some "artifact" that is meaningless and unrewarding.

Gone are the days where you had clear and attractive goals that felt amazing to achieve. That is... until Classic returns!

[einaschern]

Gone are the days where you had clear and attractive goals that felt amazing to achieve. That is... until Classic returns!

Uh... what? Clear and attractive goals in vanilla?
What game were you playing?

[Deleted]

LOL, did you really link some shitty warlods of garrison boss as a huge acomplishment? What a joke, as I said before, stay at retail. You are one of those that would never get past level 10 in classic.

BTW, amazing how you depend on addons. Can't even play the game without clustering your screen with third party programs to play the game for you.

You wont get your shitty "quality of life" improvements in classic, glad they said they are staying as close as possible to the original game. Hopefully it will be enough to keep "pros" like you out of it.

Comparing a random world boss to a mythic encounter raid end boss top kek

You won the title of Emperor of autism ruler of the galaxy of Down syndrome of all the multiverse

[Jyggalag]

LOL, did you really link some shitty warlods of garrison boss as a huge acomplishment? What a joke, as I said before, stay at retail. You are one of those that would never get past level 10 in classic.

BTW, amazing how you depend on addons. Can't even play the game without clustering your screen with third party programs to play the game for you.

You wont get your shitty "quality of life" improvements in classic, glad they said they are staying as close as possible to the original game. Hopefully it will be enough to keep "pros" like you out of it.

Brags about a Vanilla world boss kill, claims a WoD end boss was a "joke" haha says it all really. WoD's only redeemable features were its bosses, and Mar'gok ranks top 10 hardest bosses in the game IMO. I've cleared everything from Kara to Emerald Nightmare, including Raggy HC and realm 2nd LK 25 HC. Just shows how out of touch you are from warcraft as a whole, and can't see beyond 2007.

"Wouldn't get past level 10 in Vanilla" click any toon on my sig and see my Sergeant title for reference.

And remind me again how ElvUI "plays the game" for me? lmao You probably don't even know what it is. You truly are delusional my friend. Keep out of grown up discussions about Classic from now on. The adults are trying to have a constructive discussion.

[Nefastus]

Crying, crying, crying, more crying.

Wow, you are still going? Stay at retail buddy, stay there. Keep yourself and your spacegoat safe. Its amazing how you won't stop crying how much you want retail stuff on classic servers, in fact you are doing that in every single topic in this forum.

Just accept you are not the target audience for these servers. You belong in retail, with all the hand holding in quests, addons that play the game for you and shitty lore.

[Jyggalag]

Wow, you are still going? Stay at retail buddy, stay there. Keep yourself and your spacegoat safe. Its amazing how you won't stop crying how much you want retail stuff on classic servers, in fact you are doing that in every single topic in this forum.

More straw man arguements. Pathetic. Someone ban this guy already, he's nothing but a common and out of touch troll.

[Nefastus]

More straw man arguements. Pathetic. Someone ban this guy already, he's nothing but a common and out of touch troll.

Says the guy that only comes to this forum to cry for retail changes in classic wow. Every single topic in here has you crying, can't handle the UI, can't handle the quests, etc, etc.

Amazing how you claim to be an adult in several replies but is now crying to ban someone that doesn't want exactly what you do.

Classic is going to be classic, deal with it. Retail is there for you.

[Jyggalag]

Crying, crying, straw man, more crying, more straw man, defecating, crying some more

Actually, I'm here voicing a popular opinion among Classic and Legacy server advocates that aren't blinded by nostalgia and have learned to grow and accept some of the much needed QoL changes implemented in the last 10 years. All you're doing is shitpost flame bait trolling with a 6 year old's IQ and the comprehension skills of a goat.

You're the only one crying here. When you read that some people have different opinions, your insecurities are projected like a child throwing a tantrum. Drawing reference to straw man arguments again and again since you're incapable of having a constructive discussion. Do everyone a favour and KYS

[Nefastus]

Actually, I'm here voicing a popular opinion among Classic and Legacy server advocates that aren't blinded by nostalgia and have learned to grow and accept some of the much needed QoL changes implemented in the last 10 years. All you're doing is shitpost flame bait trolling with a 6 year old's IQ and the comprehension skills of a goat.

You're the only one crying here. When you read that some people have different opinions, your insecurities are projected like a child throwing a tantrum. Drawing reference to straw man arguments again and again since you're incapable of having a constructive discussion. Do everyone a favour and KYS

Not very popular from what I see in here. But whatever, keep insulting, its clear you are here just to annoy people. You got retail for your changes, let classic be classic. You are just not the target audience for it.

[Charge me Doctor]

Quests literally appearing on your screen out of nowhere. Linear quest design for zones. Dungeon guides. Automatic skill learning. Profession quest lines that make your profession level irrelevant. Portals everywhere. LFR/LFD. The list goes on.

How is quests appearing on your screen when you enter a quest zone is different than getting a quest from the hub?

Questing in vanilla wasn't exactly branchy. You do literally what you are told to do, there is no option to pick quest #1 that leads to quest #3 at the expense of quest #2 leading you to a different branch of plot...

Dungeon guides existed in vanilla in form of... player made addons. Or databases. Dungeon journal is a great addition to the game, because it doesn't require you to download an addon for exactly same shit.

How is that handholding? You either buy your skills at each even level, or you get the same spells automatically. It's literally same spells you'd get regardless.

I don't recall a single quest line 1-60 except the BS one that requires you to craft some mail shit for a dwarf in SW, i'm fairly sure that such quest lines simply don't exist until you get to max level, where you profession level is still relevant.

Maybe its perks of playing a mage, but i didn't notice any unusual portals everywhere.

LFR/LFD were pushed by community and addons already were in place in vanilla.

Just like gearscore and ilvl, in case you'll bring it in. In fact, i predict that addons such gearscore will emerge in vanilla wow. It's just inevitability.

[Echocho]

I think we have at least two different crowds of pro-legacy people:
* The ones that have played private servers for years and have been sort of brain washed by the experience and nothing other than the Nostalrius core will satisfy them.
* The ones that haven't touched a private server but have been longing for vanilla for years and are open to smaller changes where they make sense.

And then we have the people that really doesn't want vanilla at all, these are the people suggesting things like LFR, transmog and shit like that.

Some changes have to be made, at the very least bug fixes and exploits/cheats like the addon API. The two pro-legacy crowds really needs to get along and find common ground, compromise and agree on things otherwise we're gonna end up with a mess of a product when Blizzard finally turns to the community for support.

I don't want early PVE encounters to be trivialized by 1.12 talents and class balance, do you?

[Charge me Doctor]

You're literally describing the difference between any difficulty level in a game. Generic shooter: take 1 bullet(read: mob) you die = hardest difficulty. Take 4 bullets(read: mobs) you die = easier difficulty. But no, that's not an accurate description of difficulty for you apparently.

I guess there's just no reasoning with you. Feel free to stay delusional then. Have a nice day.

There is so much wrong in your analogy...

[Mackeith]

How is quests appearing on your screen when you enter a quest zone is different than getting a quest from the hub?

Questing in vanilla wasn't exactly branchy. You do literally what you are told to do, there is no option to pick quest #1 that leads to quest #3 at the expense of quest #2 leading you to a different branch of plot...

Dungeon guides existed in vanilla in form of... player made addons. Or databases. Dungeon journal is a great addition to the game, because it doesn't require you to download an addon for exactly same shit.

How is that handholding? You either buy your skills at each even level, or you get the same spells automatically. It's literally same spells you'd get regardless.

I don't recall a single quest line 1-60 except the BS one that requires you to craft some mail shit for a dwarf in SW, i'm fairly sure that such quest lines simply don't exist until you get to max level, where you profession level is still relevant.

Maybe its perks of playing a mage, but i didn't notice any unusual portals everywhere.

LFR/LFD were pushed by community and addons already were in place in vanilla.

Just like gearscore and ilvl, in case you'll bring it in. In fact, i predict that addons such gearscore will emerge in vanilla wow. It's just inevitability.

You ask what handholding means, but then sidestep and defend why different things were put in the game, when I mention examples of handholding that's been implemented. It doesn't matter why they came in to the game, what we were discussing was which changed increased the amount of handholding Blizzard implemented. And I'd like to make it clear that it's Blizzard, not the addon community. There is a very very big difference. Can we please stay on topic.

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There is so much wrong in your analogy...

Feel free to elaborate and I can make a more detailed explanation. But judging by your other post, you clearly have a narrative you want to push that has absolutely nothing to do with the current discussion.

[sosleapy]

for me if i was to play it i want it exactly like it was in vanilla.
no heirlooms no nothing like today
20 days to level as being fast.

Classic vanilla.

that being said i wont play it. dont have any drive to. played when it was relevant that was enough for me.

[Jastall]

Except Blizzard themselves have said they aren't making Vanilla+. You people come into these threads and argue about this without even reading what Blizzard has said about the topic. It's like coming to a discussion in a class without having done the assigned reading.

Blizzard says a lot of things. They said there wouldn't be content droughts. That there wouldn't be flying from Draenor onwards. That Classic servers were not happening. I could go on for pages.

Point is, that's nothing more than a statement of intent that they can happily backpedal on if need be. I'm not saying it will happen, none of us know what format Classic will take and I'm not sure Blizzard themselves know if they're still hiring people. Of course they won't add egregious stuff like LFR. But that doesn't mean they won't add anything, especially given that addons will already add stuff like manual group finders, graphic updates and achievements anyway.

[Charge me Doctor]

You ask what handholding means, but then sidestep and defend why different things were put in the game, when I mention examples of handholding that's been implemented. It doesn't matter why they came in to the game, what we were discussing was which changed increased the amount of handholding Blizzard implemented. And I'd like to make it clear that it's Blizzard, not the addon community. There is a very very big difference. Can we please stay on topic.

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Feel free to elaborate and I can make a more detailed explanation. But judging by your other post, you clearly have a narrative you want to push that has absolutely nothing to do with the current discussion.

handholding is when the game holds your fucking hand, following you through and stopping you from turning somewhere else. It doesn't happen in WoW. You can literally go anywhere at any point of time. Nothing you provided as an example is an example of handholding.

Yeah, some things because more clear, convenient, easier, but there are very little examples of handholding in wow (the only i can come up with is obligatory training session when you boost a character).

mobs are mobs, bullets are projectiles. You comparison would be true if you were talking about defias pillager fireball vs a bullet from halo 3 grunt

[Morbownz]

they can leave us retail players alone with their constant complaining.

...and here you are RAGING about official Classic WoW. People that wanted Classic WoW have won, disgruntled little whiner's like you lost. Deal with it an move on, you have a new expansion to discuss in the other sub forum! Go! Quick! It sounds amazing!!!!!!!!!