8700k vs 7700k

[Slicer299]

One thing I forgot to add that I don't want to bury in my already long rebuttal, but there are numerous games that support Hyperthreading.

It's why the 7700K can beat most of the Ryzen line up in games that support 6 or 8 cores. This has been tested extensively for both Intel and AMD. One of the common optimizations that was developers put out for Ryzen was better SMT support, as it's not exactly the same as Intel's HT, but performs the same function. Gamers Nexus was one such outlet that extensively tested SMT support with the Ryzen launch, testing HT support at the same time for the Intel chips in the same benchmarks.

[KingSapmi]

WoW only supports one core and hyper threading is not beneficial in games.

You are the one who are wrong because WoW still doesn't support more than one core.

You're just so adamant to your points, it's not the best option when other people are providing evidence to the contruary, while you on the other hand have not. Unless you do so, don't be so assertive and so sure of yourself, just like in the whole bitcoin discussion in the GTX 1070ti thread where you backed down all quietly when someone else provided proof and you had nothing to go on, be more humble.

As other's have said, WoW does support more cores, but utilizing them fully is a whole other thing, it's a old game, in dire need of a heavy upgrade.

[Arainie]

Imagine if you all stopped spewing the bullshit that WoW runs on one core or that single threat performance is the only thing that matters for WoW. It's very easy to check that WoW(-64).exe runs some 40 (39 in my case) threads (get Process Explorer or a similar tool). Yes, one thread carries the bulk of the load in terms of CPU time (and thus one core since it's most likely pinned), along with a second thread carrying a relatively large load with 10~ additional threads carrying some weight of significance. However, starring yourself blind on CPU time/core time isn't going to do you any favours unless you also realize that other factors such as context switches (swapping threads in and out of execution) has further impacts than a single clock cycle here or there when you take cache misses in to account.

While I could probably write an essay on the topic, in essence you might not see heavy processor load on anything but one core, but this does not mean that WoW is single threaded or that core clock is the only important factor in the equation. WoW will most definitly run better on multiple cores than it will on a single or even two cores.

WoW only supports one core and hyper threading is not beneficial in games.

Right. Keep your head in the sand if you want, it's not going to hurt me!

[KingSapmi]

Right. Keep your head in the sand if you want, it's not going to hurt me!

My money's on him not replying like usual, and just backing out all silently when proven wrong.

[Lathais]

You are the one who are wrong because WoW still doesn't support more than one core.

- - - Updated - - -



Anyone with any common sense can see that the 8350K is the best one for gamers.

You are sort of right. WoW does not dictate what cores get used, that's handled by Windows. However, you are also wrong. WoW is in fact Multi-Threaded. It runs quite a few threads all at once. It sends them all to your OS and your OS decides what core to run them on. However, since WoW is sending multiple threads, yes, work for WoW is being done on multiple cores at the same time.

The thing is, there is one main thread in WoW that handles all the draw calls and THAT thread can not be split and what limits performance. However, since it is Windows handling where that thread is running, it does get moved from core to core so to people it looks as though their system is being used in a balanced way. Since that one thread must be run serially and it's mostly draw calls that need the prior one finished to start the next, one draw call gets made, when that is finished and the next one is made, it is likely moved to the core being used the least and then so on and so forth. So it looks like all the cores are getting used.

This is a pretty oversimplified explanation, but I think most can get it. In short though, yes, WoW DOES use more than one core, there are quite a few threads always being run. The main one that handles draw calls limits performance and can not be split, but other threads that handle other simpler things can be running at the same time.


Also, as for your other comment about the 8350k being the best for gamers and that no games utilize hyperthreading, you are again only half right. There are games out there that do scale with more cores/threads. Just take a look at this:
https://www.techspot.com/review/1497...00k/page3.html

I suppose Civ6 is not a game? It clearly runs better the more cores there are.

Also, for BF1, don't look at the benchmarks at the top, those are obviously being limited by the GPU, so they are very similar. Scroll down to the bottom where they remove the GPU from the equation by using 720p and limiting FPS to 200. You can clearly see the 2 extra cores make a pretty good difference, especially in the Min FPS area.

[grexly75]

in WoW no

but if you have the money then buy 8700K for sure

Totally agree on this if have the money go for the 8700K, would not even bother with the 7700K as that is now old tech.. Main reason is that if you play any other games other than WoW it is good to have the grunt there when you need it..

[Lathais]

Imagine if you all stopped spewing the bullshit that WoW runs on one core or that single threat performance is the only thing that matters for WoW. It's very easy to check that WoW(-64).exe runs some 40 (39 in my case) threads (get Process Explorer or a similar tool). Yes, one thread carries the bulk of the load in terms of CPU time (and thus one core since it's most likely pinned), along with a second thread carrying a relatively large load with 10~ additional threads carrying some weight of significance. However, starring yourself blind on CPU time/core time isn't going to do you any favours unless you also realize that other factors such as context switches (swapping threads in and out of execution) has further impacts than a single clock cycle here or there when you take cache misses in to account.

While I could probably write an essay on the topic, in essence you might not see heavy processor load on anything but one core, but this does not mean that WoW is single threaded or that core clock is the only important factor in the equation. WoW will most definitly run better on multiple cores than it will on a single or even two cores.


Right. Keep your head in the sand if you want, it's not going to hurt me!

While I agree with this mostly, I don't think there is much benefit beyond 2 cores for WoW. I mean sure, there will be some minor improvement but nothing noticeable. 2 cores is going to be enough to handle it unless you are doing some very heavy multitasking while playing. Single thread performance is really the only thing that matters beyond 2 cores because that one main thread will run on one care and everything else will be pushed to the other core. That one thread is really all that matters for WoW performance, so as long as it has a core to itself, one more core can handle all WoWs other threads and the OS and even some light multitasking like having a VoIP client or a web browser with a few tabs open. If you run a lot of add-ons or multi-task a lot, then yes, having more than 2 cores will make a difference, but that's not WoWs fault. You start multi-tasking too much with just 2 cores and yeah, eventually some stuff is gonna have to run on the core that is handling the main thread, so 4 cores is recommended if you use a lot of add-ons and/or heavily multi-task. For just WoW though, 2 cores is already far more than enough.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Depends. You are going to get about a 10% improvement on something that is pretty much already overkill.

So look at about the 90-100 bucks more you will spend and ask yourself if that 10% is worth it. Both are excellent options so you really cant go wrong either way.

[Gaidax]

The 7700K is better for gaming since no game supports the six cores of the 8700K and personally I would go for the 8350K.

This is nonsense.

If the guy is choosing between 7700k and 8700k, then there is no choice - 8700k all the way, simply because it is a massive upgrade over 7700k in terms of long term power.

Yes, for WoW - does not matter, but in the long run 8700k is simply better and price difference between 7700k and 8700k does not justify giving up on 8700k.

[Slicer299]

While I agree with this mostly, I don't think there is much benefit beyond 2 cores for WoW. I mean sure, there will be some minor improvement but nothing noticeable. 2 cores is going to be enough to handle it unless you are doing some very heavy multitasking while playing. Single thread performance is really the only thing that matters beyond 2 cores because that one main thread will run on one care and everything else will be pushed to the other core. That one thread is really all that matters for WoW performance, so as long as it has a core to itself, one more core can handle all WoWs other threads and the OS and even some light multitasking like having a VoIP client or a web browser with a few tabs open. If you run a lot of add-ons or multi-task a lot, then yes, having more than 2 cores will make a difference, but that's not WoWs fault. You start multi-tasking too much with just 2 cores and yeah, eventually some stuff is gonna have to run on the core that is handling the main thread, so 4 cores is recommended if you use a lot of add-ons and/or heavily multi-task. For just WoW though, 2 cores is already far more than enough.

Except there is plenty of cases where people upgrading from 2 cores to 4 cores saw a marked improvement in performance. The buddy of mine who got me into playing WoW nearly a decade ago was one such person. He's always had slower systems than me and complained a lot about WoW performance. Just last year I was finally able to talk him into upgrading from a Haswell dual core, I don't remember which one, to a 4670. Same motherboard, RAM, etc, just upgraded to a quad core CPU that he was able to pick up for a good price.

Instantly the hitching and stuttering problems he was experiencing in populated areas was gone. He no longer freezes in place because his quad core CPU can better handle all the network traffic involved. Again nothing else was changed, it was the same Windows install and everything. All we did was change out the dual core for a quad core. So while frame rate gains beyond 2 cores may be minimal in WoW, things like frame times absolutely improve.

[Deleted]

The 7700K is better for gaming since no game supports the six cores of the 8700K and personally I would go for the 8350K.

EAs Frostbite engine does with basically all of their games based on it, AC:Origins skales with more than 4 cores. It's complety unrealistic to assume newer games will not be able to use 6 or possibly 8 cores.

[pansertjald]

Your operating system can perform many tasks at the same time it's called multitasking and I'm sure that it has existed since at least 1980.

I really think it's time for you to take a timeout on the Computer sub forum, until you are willing to listen AND learn. People keep giving you the right answer and links, but you never listen and only think what you say are the right way.

To be good at Computers and to know whats right, you have to be willing to listen to others and to do alot of research.

This is not the first thread you are doing this thing, where you just say something and then don't want to listen to poeple when they correct you and give you links. Just look at this thread. You say that WOW only runs on one core, but WOW has run on multi cores since CATA and people give you links and you still don't want to listen to them and then you come up with your own wierd answers, that makes no sense at all and when you finaly see that you are wrong, you just give all the silent treatment, instead of saying that you where wrong and you appreciate the right answers and help.

Thats how you learn and thats how you get people's trust

[moremana]

You are the one who are wrong because WoW still doesn't support more than one core.

- - - Updated - - -



Anyone with any common sense can see that the 8350K is the best one for gamers.

Except that he is inquiring about the 7700k vs the 8700k. I don't understand why you feel the need to derail the thread of its original question.

And WoW does use more than one core. But, you know what, Im open to anyone's thoughts, so do show me a verifiable link that shows it only using one core. Because on my machine I see more cores being utilised when playing and that's just looking at the built in process viewer on Windows 10, granted one is being used more and the others not as much, it still uses more cores.

Now that doesnt take away from the 8350k, on a budget that is a good cpu, but he didnt ask the question...is the 8350k better than the 7600k.

[Amalaric]

Except there is plenty of cases where people upgrading from 2 cores to 4 cores saw a marked improvement in performance. The buddy of mine who got me into playing WoW nearly a decade ago was one such person. He's always had slower systems than me and complained a lot about WoW performance. Just last year I was finally able to talk him into upgrading from a Haswell dual core, I don't remember which one, to a 4670. Same motherboard, RAM, etc, just upgraded to a quad core CPU that he was able to pick up for a good price.

Instantly the hitching and stuttering problems he was experiencing in populated areas was gone. He no longer freezes in place because his quad core CPU can better handle all the network traffic involved. Again nothing else was changed, it was the same Windows install and everything. All we did was change out the dual core for a quad core. So while frame rate gains beyond 2 cores may be minimal in WoW, things like frame times absolutely improve.

He probably got a much better graphics card at the same time but it's the CPU that did it... oh yes! /sarcasm

[Gaidax]

He probably got a much better graphics card at the same time but it's the CPU that did it... oh yes! /sarcasm

Better CPU increases performance in WoW the shock. Apparently you are one of those people who think that the moment WoW is launched all other processes are stopped and WoW gets real time CPU priority.

In short, it's not outside the realm of possibility for that to happen. WoW is shit at multithreading, but it still uses more than one core. It's problem is that it uses heavily one core, not that it does not make use of additional ones.

[Kagthul]

He probably got a much better graphics card at the same time but it's the CPU that did it... oh yes! /sarcasm

Or, the poor guy was trying to run way too much in the background, and the jump to four cores freed up resources.

[nocturnus]

You are the one who are wrong because WoW still doesn't support more than one core.

How often do people need to prove you wrong, before your brains actually accept it?

It's quite clear you don't really understand how cores, threads and probably computers in general work. So educate yourself and use the information people in this thread have kindly provided; do not indulge ignorance.

OP, the 8700k is a better cpu, so the choice is pretty obvious: 8700k, Z370 motherboard and 3ghz memory. If you already have the 7700k, upgrading is a waste of money.

[Amalaric]

How often do people need to prove you wrong, before your brains actually accept it?

It's quite clear you don't really understand how cores, threads and probably computers in general work. So educate yourself and use the information people in this thread have kindly provided; do not indulge ignorance.

OP, the 8700k is a better cpu, so the choice is pretty obvious: 8700k, Z370 motherboard and 3ghz memory. If you already have the 7700k, upgrading is a waste of money.

Ok then... WoW is poorly optimized to use more than one core... happy?

[Slicer299]

Or, the poor guy was trying to run way too much in the background, and the jump to four cores freed up resources.

No, he was running nothing in the background and the issue persisted even with AddOns disabled. We're both WoW veterans with a combined 24 years experience (He's been playing for 15 years and I've been playing for 9) in dealing with WoW and know how to troubleshoot it. He had previously performed a GPU upgrade, several months prior, that did nothing to resolve the lag/hitching issue. Running around Ashran was a choppy, soupy mess for him. He couldn't even enter or leave his Garrison without dropping frames. Because while you're the only person visible inside your Garrison, there was always a gaggle of people near that boundary where it phased.

There is a ton of network traffic that your OS has to process in WoW when there are a lot of people around. That network traffic can absolutely be assigned to those other cores that WoW isn't putting a significant load on. WoW will still need to use primarily one core to translate that network traffic to information on your screen, but sending and receiving the packets is a process handled by Windows and Windows can use any core it wants for that. That was the entire gimmick with things like those KILLER network cards some people ran back in the day. They had their own on board processors that were supposed to free up your CPU from having to handle that network traffic.

Ok then... WoW is poorly optimized to use more than one core... happy?

That's literally what nearly everyone has been trying to tell you. It doesn't use those cores very well, but it can and does use them and has been doing so since Cata. But you seem incapable of actually admitting you were wrong. You just continue with your weak sarcasm and don't actually learn anything. It's like trying to talk to those console players who make those pathetic YouTube videos where they try to say their XBox has better visual quality and higher frame rates than every PC under $5000. Just like those people, your statements here have had zero basis in fact.

[Amalaric]

No, he was running nothing in the background and the issue persisted even with AddOns disabled. We're both WoW veterans with a combined 24 years experience (He's been playing for 15 years and I've been playing for 9) in dealing with WoW and know how to troubleshoot it. He had previously performed a GPU upgrade, several months prior, that did nothing to resolve the lag/hitching issue. Running around Ashran was a choppy, soupy mess for him. He couldn't even enter or leave his Garrison without dropping frames. Because while you're the only person visible inside your Garrison, there was always a gaggle of people near that boundary where it phased.

There is a ton of network traffic that your OS has to process in WoW when there are a lot of people around. That network traffic can absolutely be assigned to those other cores that WoW isn't putting a significant load on. WoW will still need to use primarily one core to translate that network traffic to information on your screen, but sending and receiving the packets is a process handled by Windows and Windows can use any core it wants for that. That was the entire gimmick with things like those KILLER network cards some people ran back in the day. They had their own on board processors that were supposed to free up your CPU from having to handle that network traffic.




That's literally what nearly everyone has been trying to tell you. It doesn't use those cores very well, but it can and does use them and has been doing so since Cata. But you seem incapable of actually admitting you were wrong. You just continue with your weak sarcasm and don't actually learn anything. It's like trying to talk to those console players who make those pathetic YouTube videos where they try to say their XBox has better visual quality and higher frame rates than every PC under $5000. Just like those people, your statements here have had zero basis in fact.

Stop getting personal on the internet.

And the 8350K is the best CPU for gamers... the 8700K is for posers with more money than brains.