[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[The Casualty]

Yo, hardcore wow player who's planning to get back to ffxiv lvling followed by raiding at the higest level, savage or whatever it was.

My main issue/question is that i see most 8 man (10?) Raids going with more or less a fixed setup, ninja, bard, machinist, dragoon. Some at most use a res mage.

If i want to do high end raiding (which i heard doesnt take that long to gear up to), will i be fine gearing up a red/black mage, or is it better of goimg with a bard/ninja/machinist etc?
Im a healer in wow, but in ffxiv it feels too weird :/

If you are competent at your job and the fights in general, you will find a party. You may not be in the meta comp, but as some of the world prog teams have shown us with Unending Coils of Bahamut (which tbh most people will never clear anywhere near on content) many "substandard" jobs can work.

I think I've said it before, but I'll mention it again. If you get an 8 person group together - 2 tanks, 2 healers, 4 DPS - and everyone is a different class, you will be hitting enough bases as far as buffs/debuffs are concerned to clear any content.

[Kaelwryn]

A redemption arc can be something as simple as a single moment. A single change of heart. Does that make it a good redemption arc? That's up for debate. The point was that he was previously an antagonist, then he was an ally in a single brief moment.

I don't agree with this at all. Being our ally doesn't make it a redemption arc. It was a temporary thing anyway because Regula understood that our goal was the same, and decided that for the moment it was best to work with each other. The moment the Warring Triad was dealt with, he would've become our enemy again. "My enemy of my enemy is my friend" does not make redemption arc.

[Faroth]

We had just wiped on Hashbrown, and after replacing that particular turd, we went on to one shot the rest of the raid.

Wait.....who is nicknamed Hashbrown? XD

[The Casualty]

I don't agree with this at all. Being our ally doesn't make it a redemption arc. It was a temporary thing anyway because Regula understood that our goal was the same, and decided that for the moment it was best to work with each other. The moment the Warring Triad was dealt with, he would've become our enemy again. "My enemy of my enemy is my friend" does not make redemption arc.

I liked him more because there was nothing to redeem. He wasn't a monster. He was a loyal general (Legatus, whatever) who happened to be on the opposing side. He was a General Leo character who you found yourself in actual conflict with. I wish they had done more with him.

[Kazgrel]

Wait.....who is nicknamed Hashbrown? XD

Hashmal, Bringer of Wipes. Actually had first wipe on him in 2-3 weeks now last night. Was running with FC friend through there for a weekly chance at loot and the other 2 parties in the alliance couldn't kill sand spheres in time...cleared it the second attempt, though, when people did dps and stopped dying (although some folks stated they were lagging, and there were at least half a dozen people stating they had bouts of lag). Given the recent DDoS nonsense, that comes as no surprise.

[Kaelwryn]

I liked him more because there was nothing to redeem. He wasn't a monster. He was a loyal general (Legatus, whatever) who happened to be on the opposing side. He was a General Leo character who you found yourself in actual conflict with. I wish they had done more with him.

Agreed. I mean, if they had kept him around, its possible he could've gotten an actual redemption arc. Maybe Varis goes too far for Regula, and he came around to help us? Who knows...simple fact is SE killed off a character that gave a different side to Garlemald, imo, that showed they're not all crazy nut jobs who want to destroy us and who's still loyal to Garlemald.

[Wrecktangle]

Or maybe it's just the nature of being an top 5% raider forced to mingle with the "filthy casuals."

Still think getting bent out of shape over DPS meters in roulettes is begging for blood pressure issues, though.

@Resiak hit it on the head quite eloquently below.

You & Danny's experiences aren't wrong. They just don't match up with mine (which is why I was annoyed he was implying that his experience is right and no other could possibly exist, it's a clear lack of critical thinking).

It's blind bias and misinformation that gets my blood boiling, not bad DPS lol.

We've discussed this subject before, and what came out of it is that FF14 tends to have a nicer player base in the lower ends of the content, and once you get into the current end game stuff, you start to see more jerks. On the other hand, in WoW, the lower end content lfr and such, tends to have the jerks, while in higher end content, people are generally nicer.

This is what leads to some people having a skewed thought on this compared to the majority. If you prefer being at the top of the content curve, your going to see that nastier side of the player base. Likewise in wow, your going to see that better player base. But if you tend to play in lower difficulty content, which is a much larger part of the player base, your going to see a lot of nicer people, versus the toxicity that is wows lower end content.

For me, I know longer have the time, or even interest in pushing the top content. Those days are long gone. So in my experience, 14 blows away wow when it comes to player attitude.

Agreed. Nicely put. I do want to make a note though: I raid less than 4 hours a week. I imagine you probably play triple that if I had to guess. If you don't have the desire that's one thing, but time? You don't need time, just a desire and a little effort .

I don't agree with this at all. Being our ally doesn't make it a redemption arc. It was a temporary thing anyway because Regula understood that our goal was the same, and decided that for the moment it was best to work with each other. The moment the Warring Triad was dealt with, he would've become our enemy again. "My enemy of my enemy is my friend" does not make redemption arc.

Sure it does. He was an enemy, then he was no longer an enemy in that moment. Then he died. He was redeemed. That's why so many of us like him and feel he was criminally underused because there was more to the character.

Why would people be attached to him otherwise? You can try and argue what would have happened had he lived, but you cannot say for a fact. You can speculate though. There's also no rule that says a redemption must be final. He could have been redeemed and fallen back to his old ways, we don't know. Again, we can argue whether it was a good redemption or not, but he certainly had a change of heart, and that's really pretty irrefutable no matter how brief it MAY have been.

If we go by religion someone can be redeemed in an instant, merely by confessing their sins.

I mean, look at Loki in the MCU. He gets a redemption arc at least twice a movie...

[Kazgrel]

So close...DRG at 67 and 4 trials away from the Lux anima for it. Would've had the weapon done had I not run roulettes to level up.

Having played mostly melee dps as of late, I forgot how fun they were, although I haven't really fiddled with their level 70 abilities at all (TCJ for NIN comes to mind). DRG has been more fun than I remember it although it annoys me that (based on what I've read and experienced) you end up clipping their dot (Chaos Thrust) on a regular basis. Ironic, I suppose, since it's not out of the question to clip Thunder dot on BLM depending on it's duration + duration of Thundercloud proc.

I think I'd still opt for MNK if I had to play melee dps, but I dare say I could pull off NIN and/or DRG just fine. Same applies for SAM, but even the batshit crazy Midair Supersaiyan crits don't really excite me. Guess that's a result of seeing such numbers on BLM since forever.

Regarding Regula: Wasn't much redemption at all there. He simply had enough sense to appeal to the idea that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, at least for a brief moment. I'm in the camp that believes he was wasted potential, whether he went full-on General Leo or decided to duke it out with us again for whatever reason. Despite being in said camp as I described, I do not want to see him resurrected/return, because that would reek of fan service, if you ask me.

[RohanV]

Sure it does. He was an enemy, then he was no longer an enemy in that moment. Then he died. He was redeemed. That's why so many of us like him and feel he was criminally underused because there was more to the character.

Why would people be attached to him otherwise? You can try and argue what would have happened had he lived, but you cannot say for a fact. You can speculate though. There's also no rule that says a redemption must be final. He could have been redeemed and fallen back to his old ways, we don't know. Again, we can argue whether it was a good redemption or not, but he certainly had a change of heart, and that's really pretty irrefutable no matter how brief it MAY have been.

If we go by religion someone can be redeemed in an instant, merely by confessing their sins.

I think "redemption" requires acknowledging your previous behaviour was wrong. I don't think Regula would say his previous behaviour was wrong. He allied with the Scions because that was what was necessary at that specific point. So I don't think he was redeemed.

[lawow74]

See above in my response to Faroth. The point I brought those up was to show you that there's a lot of nuance to statement that you didn't give credit to for WoW, but you have no issue doing it for FF14 (that's cold hearted bias). You even spoke in absolutes with regard to wow, but were willing to concede to more nuanced discussion regarding FF14, again, what appears to be rooted in bias. I knew that these examples weren't black and white, just like most examples aren't black and white. If I could get discussion started where people "jumped" to prove me wrong, it'd be almost hypocritically easy to demonstrate the same for WoW.

What nuance? I can't speak for Illidan and his redemption arc, but Kael'thas, Arthas? They put the pedal to the metal on evil. And Garrosh didn't go down quite so fast, but he sure didn't waste a lot of time once he got the seat as Warchief to going Orc Hitler. Though I did have to laugh when that one Fel Orc made the remark about remembering him from Draenor as (I'm putting it in my own words) a little whiny emo pussy.

I was more speaking of the long history of corruption to absolute evil in Blizzard's games. Lessee...

Diablo: King Leoric, his son, his most trusted knight, all turned fullbore irredeemable evil.
Diablo II: The big one here being the hero from the original Diablo turning fullbore irredeemable evil.
Diablo III: And surprise surprise surprise, the daughter of the hero from the original Diablo turns fullbore irredeemable evil (at least AFAIK, if they ever give her a redemption in another xpac, we shall see, otherwise...)
Starcraft: Queen of Blades. 'Nuff said.
Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft: See above.
Starcraft II: Finally Blizzard stops and goes 'Y'know, maybe...we should...not...turn...someone...evil? Maybe...turn someone...back?' It's like that moment when the special needs kid puts the round peg in the round hole...

[The Casualty]

What nuance? I can't speak for Illidan and his redemption arc, but Kael'thas, Arthas? They put the pedal to the metal on evil. And Garrosh didn't go down quite so fast, but he sure didn't waste a lot of time once he got the seat as Warchief to going Orc Hitler. Though I did have to laugh when that one Fel Orc made the remark about remembering him from Draenor as (I'm putting it in my own words) a little whiny emo pussy.

I was more speaking of the long history of corruption to absolute evil in Blizzard's games. Lessee...

Diablo: King Leoric, his son, his most trusted knight, all turned fullbore irredeemable evil.
Diablo II: The big one here being the hero from the original Diablo turning fullbore irredeemable evil.
Diablo III: And surprise surprise surprise, the daughter of the hero from the original Diablo turns fullbore irredeemable evil (at least AFAIK, if they ever give her a redemption in another xpac, we shall see, otherwise...)
Starcraft: Queen of Blades. 'Nuff said.
Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft: See above.
Starcraft II: Finally Blizzard stops and goes 'Y'know, maybe...we should...not...turn...someone...evil? Maybe...turn someone...back?' It's like that moment when the special needs kid puts the round peg in the round hole...

I love Blizzard games, but I think you have to go into them knowing they treat their good/evil arcs with about as much nuance and theatrics as professional wrestling does with their "heels" and "faces".

[lawow74]

I love Blizzard games, but I think you have to go into them knowing they treat their good/evil arcs with about as much nuance and theatrics as professional wrestling does with their "heels" and "faces".

Subtlety isn't their strong suit. Don't get me wrong, the stories are usually entertaining, but especially in the olden days there was very much a sort of juvenile grimdark for grimdark's sake feel to a lot of it. I still think about that quote from the Blood Elf hero in WC 3.

Regardless, with Rival Wings coming soon, I wonder if they'll keep PvE XP rewards in this new mode? I'm guessing so, but I dunno.

[Wrecktangle]

I think "redemption" requires acknowledging your previous behaviour was wrong. I don't think Regula would say his previous behaviour was wrong. He allied with the Scions because that was what was necessary at that specific point. So I don't think he was redeemed.

This is a good point, but not super black and white as stated here. Was his previous behavior wrong with regard to us as the WoL? Was his previous behavior wrong objectively? Perspective is important here. If we're to assume we are the WoL then we would see his change of heart as redemption in that moment. While in the grand scheme of things or from Regula's POV it may not qualify, it's again, not black and white as people have tried to treat it.

That was kind of my point originally in that there is nuance in these things if you look deep enough.

What nuance? I can't speak for Illidan and his redemption arc, but Kael'thas, Arthas? They put the pedal to the metal on evil. And Garrosh didn't go down quite so fast, but he sure didn't waste a lot of time once he got the seat as Warchief to going Orc Hitler. Though I did have to laugh when that one Fel Orc made the remark about remembering him from Draenor as (I'm putting it in my own words) a little whiny emo pussy.

I was more speaking of the long history of corruption to absolute evil in Blizzard's games. Lessee...

Diablo: King Leoric, his son, his most trusted knight, all turned fullbore irredeemable evil.
Diablo II: The big one here being the hero from the original Diablo turning fullbore irredeemable evil.
Diablo III: And surprise surprise surprise, the daughter of the hero from the original Diablo turns fullbore irredeemable evil (at least AFAIK, if they ever give her a redemption in another xpac, we shall see, otherwise...)
Starcraft: Queen of Blades. 'Nuff said.
Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft: See above.
Starcraft II: Finally Blizzard stops and goes 'Y'know, maybe...we should...not...turn...someone...evil? Maybe...turn someone...back?' It's like that moment when the special needs kid puts the round peg in the round hole...

If your original point was about Blizzard overusing Corruption theme's that fair. I didn't get that from the OP, but it's been a while and I don't remember the genesis of the discussion I thought it was redemption. That's definitely Diablo's schtick so need to hash that out.

KT/Arthas didn't have any kind of redemption I am aware of. Open to discussion if you know something I don't.

We did learn that with Bolvar taking the seat was a bit of nuance because the Scourge wild and free is a bigger threat to azeroth than LK controlling them, but again, corruption here not redemption.

Kerrigan's corruption arc was fantastic. I was much less pleased with her redemption, in fact not happy with it at all.

[lawow74]

If your original point was about Blizzard overusing Corruption theme's that fair. I didn't get that from the OP, but it's been a while and I don't remember the genesis of the discussion I thought it was redemption. That's definitely Diablo's schtick so need to hash that out.

KT/Arthas didn't have any kind of redemption I am aware of. Open to discussion if you know something I don't.

We did learn that with Bolvar taking the seat was a bit of nuance because the Scourge wild and free is a bigger threat to azeroth than LK controlling them, but again, corruption here not redemption.

Kerrigan's corruption arc was fantastic. I was much less pleased with her redemption, in fact not happy with it at all.

It was how overused corruption was, and once even a blind person could see that, how they started weaving in redemption (Illidan and Kerrigan). I wasn't intimating redemption for Arthas/Kael/Garrosh. If they ever tried it I'd probably laugh for minutes at the sheer stupidity and desperation evident. Arguably Illidan deserved a shot, since he'd basically been shit upon by his brother 'Hush Tyrande' Stormrage. Kerrigan too, since the bastard responsible served her up like a pudding to the Swarm (is that how we get vengeful hybrids, Barry? Yes it is, Other Barry. Yes it is.)

[Kazgrel]

There they are, all 13 animas (finally). Now to get DRG to 70.

[lawow74]

There they are, all 13 animas (finally). Now to get DRG to 70.

I dedicate this one to you.

[Granyala]

There they are, all 13 animas (finally).

Yikes... that had to hurt. :O

[Wrecktangle]

It was how overused corruption was, and once even a blind person could see that, how they started weaving in redemption (Illidan and Kerrigan). I wasn't intimating redemption for Arthas/Kael/Garrosh. If they ever tried it I'd probably laugh for minutes at the sheer stupidity and desperation evident. Arguably Illidan deserved a shot, since he'd basically been shit upon by his brother 'Hush Tyrande' Stormrage. Kerrigan too, since the bastard responsible served her up like a pudding to the Swarm (is that how we get vengeful hybrids, Barry? Yes it is, Other Barry. Yes it is.)

I'm too lazy to go back, but I'll concede I misunderstood and was wrong then.

On a more positive note, my raid group was such a trap last night. Between just general shit play, then the east coast PING that came, I was getting pretty ridiculous packet loss. I was watching abilities go off before the cast bars even showed up LOL.

[Eleccybubb]

I swear tanks become pure paper between 65-70 because healing them as a SCH feels dreadful.

I don't get any time to DPS other than maybe a quick Bane/Shadow Flare and it feels like they take way too much damage.

[Kazgrel]

I dedicate this one to you.

Too bad I can't play that through the macro I have for starting up hunt trains, lol.

- - - Updated - - -

Yikes... that had to hurt. :O

Not toooo much; the most painful one is the first one. Subsequent animas can be (for the most part) a result of simply playing the game. The only thing that has to be grinded out at this point is the light farm step, which was significantly nerfed in 4.1 (light gain is 2.5-3x faster than it was prior to 4.1).

It's far easier, imo, to do subsequent anima weapons than it is to do subsequent zeta weapons (the first of each is always painful because you won't have all of the objectives unlocked ahead of time).

- - - Updated - - -

I swear tanks become pure paper between 65-70 because healing them as a SCH feels dreadful.

I don't get any time to DPS other than maybe a quick Bane/Shadow Flare and it feels like they take way too much damage.

I'm very confident in saying that it's not just you. Bardam's Mettle is the first dungeon that tanks will likely enter where they aren't at or near the ilvl cap for the dungeon, so you end up with tanks with 270 gear in there getting absolutely pummeled by the trash mobs in there. The level 65-66 left side gear (obtained from that dungeon and crafting, respectively) is worth almost 1000 defense and magic defense over ilvl 270 gear from level 60. Sadly, there's a pretty high chance that you get said tanks in 270 gear more often than not for that dungeon; you can only hope they have enough sense to know to do smaller pulls with those mobs.

Pretty rich coming from someone who healed Castrum Abania to level 69-70 on WHM while still using ilvl 270 gear...I don't recommend that, either, because if you get a tank that isn't ilvl capped for that dungeon, it'll be a rough time for the both of you.

TL;DR: Gear upgrades starting at 65-66 are huge gains over even ilvl 270 stuff from level 60, despite the tiny ilvl increase.