How the Horde can keep up with the Alliance?

[shammypie]

1 Orc can counters 10 humans??? Wake up, humans are able to kill orcs in 1vs1, and they can easy kill taurens with Wall of spades (Like when romans killed elephants, with the difference that tauren do not have more strength than a horse), firearms or cavalry charge. Worgen > Tauren. Dwarves army > All. Alliance outnumber horde 5 to 1, if every alliance soldier get guns, mortars and cannons, they can decimate horde forces in range, and clear the survivols with the calvary. Remember that alliance won with less tecnology than now against the fel orcs, ogres, trolls and enslaved dragons during the second war. Actually horde just exist because if any faction die, the game would end. Remember than alliance have STEEL STEAM TANKS, no horde race have the strenght to damage the tons of shield that protect the tank, and horde just have demolisher which are just motorized wooden catapults that has nothing to do against our siege enginerings. Gnomish tech is actually better than the goblin one, that most of the time exploits them themselves.

dam got an alliance hard on there? If the Alliance outnumber the horde 5 to 1 why don't they just finish the job? That's because 1 horde warrior is stronger than an allliance one. Let's not over-exxagerate though. Alliance soldiers have more training and can take on a horde soldier if their smart. But in a large scale battle the horde do better because you can't fight the same way you would in a duel. So the Horde's superior strength pushes the alliance back. The tech on the Alliance side is better but this is a planet full of magic. So 1 good mage can blow up your tank. The wooden catapults you made fun of those are still rather effective in killing people. Furthermore Horde tech has grown by miles in the last few expansions while the alliance is still the same. The horde has bombs and rockets to shoot back at Alliance tanks and some robots of their own.

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I never read orcs reproduce lot faster then humans. Every time human outnumber orcs, so your argument has no sense.
I play alliance, this is why I talk about "Our"

Lol call it Alliance tech, you may play alliance but a lot of us have played both pretty religiously. The Horde and Alliance don't have the power to wipe each out yet. Most of the alliance are worthless in a fight so their numbers mean nothing. The Horde as always wild because your basically fighting the farmers/peons most of the time. The elites were the ones sent on black ops missions. As far as reproduction that one hasn't been stated one way or another. In a lot of fantasy worlds orcs reproduce and grow faster but wow hasn't made it one way or another. The best guide you have is Thrall's life. Which fast forwards his childhood quite a bit so in relation to humans I would say they grow to full size in at most half the time. This would make their reproduction numbers way higher than humans.

[Deleted]

I never read orcs reproduce lot faster then humans. Every time human outnumber orcs, so your argument has no sense. Orcs are bigger, they need more food, Resources to survive and more gestation time to born. And orc is stronger than human, but they aren't superior to humans and strenght isn't all in the combat, human are more agile and can dodge more easily, while orcs are too big and they are an easy target for ranged weapons.

And for the guy who say horde is stronger in average, this isn't true, only orcs and tauren are bulking races. Alliance has very strongs races like Draeneis, dwarves and worgens.

it's mostly war3 era lore. maybe rise of the horde novel i cant quite remember. orcs have large litter sizes (helpful on a harsh planet so a few can die as infants and you still have some left over), mature rapidly, rely on instinct a lot, etc. it's very wild animal and tribal based all.

During thralls reign, when orc families were described, they were always described as being short on food, the kids being tiny etc. because thrall was willing to be short on resources in order to keep the peace.

But then after Garrosh took over, and now as recent as the latest sylvanas short story, orcs families are described as happy, their kinds being plump, etc. they also more usually say they only have one child nowadays, which i guess its just some minor changes to make them more identifiable to a wider audience.


It's hard to say if orcs need more food per kg bodyweight, the only thing really known is that their diet is mostly protein. they definitely do not need more resources, they require less education, less armor, less housing, etc.

strenght, size and bodymass is by far the most important factors in a 1v1 fight, and humans don't have advanced enough weapons/armor to offset that advantage. and dont kid yourself, humans cant dodge for shit, only elfs rely on that kind of combat. What humans do have is better tactics and larger numbers in group/army fights. it's kinda a roman legion vs barbarians situation, but with really big barbarians.

but the big picture thing is: orcs are used to hard times, humans are not. so orc populations will recover a lot faster then human populations. but the human population is a lot larger then the orc population so it balances out. this is what has kept the horde on equal footing with the alliance despite the recent losses.

[Balinus]

well i think it boil down to the the various race, the orc, tauren, goblin and troll are fundamentally all capable warriors, the forsaken are nearly all expendables and the belf most of them are capable of using magic even the innkeepers.

While the alliance has civilian and a powerful standing army the horde is basically an army with very few civilian (and those classified as civilian are able to fight on a footman level).

That is also reflected in how they fight, while the alliance has proper army discipline, tactic, prep etc; the horde fight in a chaotic manner and often lose due to poor tactic and retarded choices, yet to capture an horde city the alliance had to expend military effort because even the civilians could give them an hard fight.

u guys keep saying that ''normal'' orcs rival footman. Man u couldnt be more wrong!

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The same applies to the alliance if you want to use past events.

Stormwind had the first and second wars to fight, prior to that they had the gurabashi war and the gnoll war. They suffered the destruction of their lands and their city, they would of had to rebuild everything combined with the constant wars against external forces, the old gods, lich king and the burning legion, Stormwind shouldn't exist as a military power but it does because the basis for warcraft was orcs vs humans, so they get a free pass (same for the orcs on the horde side)

The gnomes suffered a massive population loss with the gnomeregan event. The draenei suffered loses from the burning legion and the old horde on draenor, gilneas fought a costly civil war, the pandaren aren't significant at all, the night elves and the dwarves should basically be the military powers of the alliance but as I said, orcs vs humans, logic need not apply.

All that u are saying isnt accurate. Stormwind was said ingame to have recovered fully from the apst wars. And for Draenei and Gnomes, yes they are the small part of Alliance. But we didnt had a major defeat in years. Horde had 2 civil wars where 2 of the 4 capital cities got sieged by both factions.

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1 Orc can counters 10 humans??? Wake up, humans are able to kill orcs in 1vs1, and they can easy kill taurens with Wall of spades (Like when romans killed elephants, with the difference that tauren do not have more strength than a horse), firearms or cavalry charge. Worgen > Tauren. Dwarves army > All. Alliance outnumber horde 5 to 1, if every alliance soldier get guns, mortars and cannons, they can decimate horde forces in range, and clear the survivols with the calvary. Remember that alliance won with less tecnology than now against the fel orcs, ogres, trolls and enslaved dragons during the second war. Actually horde just exist because if any faction die, the game would end. Remember than alliance have STEEL STEAM TANKS, no horde race have the strenght to damage the tons of shield that protect the tank, and horde just have demolisher which are just motorized wooden catapults that has nothing to do against our siege enginerings. Gnomish tech is actually better than the goblin one, that most of the time exploits them themselves.

I agree in the infantry part. But remember what Garrosh's Horde created man........

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dam got an alliance hard on there? If the Alliance outnumber the horde 5 to 1 why don't they just finish the job?

Siege of Orgrimmar cinematic Alliance side says hello
Also we are showing in this next expansion that we dont need surprise burnings to win. We get our full strenght and siege your capitals. AND WE TAKE THEM!

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And the cinematic showed that human soldiers dont loose just because orcs are stronger. We won 2 wars against them. And eve so, we got worgens draenei and dwarfs, all know for their strenght.
This that Horde has less soldiers but their small numbers count how many times 1 of the alliance is *****hit, cmon

[Deleted]

dam got an alliance hard on there? If the Alliance outnumber the horde 5 to 1 why don't they just finish the job? That's because 1 horde warrior is stronger than an allliance one. Let's not over-exxagerate though. Alliance soldiers have more training and can take on a horde soldier if their smart. But in a large scale battle the horde do better because you can't fight the same way you would in a duel. So the Horde's superior strength pushes the alliance back. The tech on the Alliance side is better but this is a planet full of magic. So 1 good mage can blow up your tank. The wooden catapults you made fun of those are still rather effective in killing people. Furthermore Horde tech has grown by miles in the last few expansions while the alliance is still the same. The horde has bombs and rockets to shoot back at Alliance tanks and some robots of their own.

Easy answer: alliance never finish the job because blizzard don't want it, as you can see in the last cinematic of SOO, or they couldn't keep with the game as we know it. But as I told before, alliance has beaten the Fel horde during 2º War, that was infinitely more powerful and bigger than the current. Orcs are stronger than Humans in physical strenght, but they aren't stronger than dwarves or worgen, In Wolfheart book, worgens beats an entire Orcs + Magnataurs & Protodrakes army led by Garrosh in ashenvale. And Humans could use wall of long pikes and spears to beat orcs, like in the reality the soldiers used to destroy the cavalry (Horse > Orc). In a large scale battle horde isn't better, because there isn't only melee infantry, as I told you, there are cavalry, ranged weapons, and humans outnumbers orcs. A single human with a gun can easily kill a Tauren in 1vs1, and numerical superiority and technology will make the difference. If you send 2000 taurens against 20.000 riflemen, taurens will never get to close combat.

it's mostly war3 era lore. maybe rise of the horde novel i cant quite remember. orcs have large litter sizes (helpful on a harsh planet so a few can die as infants and you still have some left over), mature rapidly, rely on instinct a lot, etc. it's very wild animal and tribal based all.

In Rise of the horde warlocks used fel magics to forced children to grow unnaturally for get the max number of soldier to fight against draeneis, but humans have more childs than orcs, and faster. And dude, skills matters more than a big size (If we are talking about humans and orcs). You can be a big orc, but if your enemy is better with his weapon and it stab you, you're dead, don't worry of your size. You can see in the cinematic how anduin, a 17 years old priest, killed easily 2 orcs, and Anduin isn't know for being a big warrior like his father.
And remember that orcs has beaten ogres in numerous wars, which are immensely superior to the orcs, so the size isn't all (Or we would be fucked agains demons).

[Kithelle]

The Devs love the Horde?

SW gets attacked by Deathwing and takes years to recover, Org sieged and doesn't seem to take a scratch of damage

[Balinus]

I dont like the fact that the war will never be over. But they are changing what happens, with capital cities getting destroyed/conquered. This is awsome.

[Zephre]

All that u are saying isnt accurate. Stormwind was said ingame to have recovered fully from the apst wars. And for Draenei and Gnomes, yes they are the small part of Alliance. But we didnt had a major defeat in years. Horde had 2 civil wars where 2 of the 4 capital cities got sieged by both factions.

Did you even read what I said or did you just rush to white knight for your faction? The reality is simple, stormwind has been fighting non stop for years, it's lost it's capital once and suffered the destruction of it's lands. There's no rational reason for it to be the biggest army in the alliance other than, as I said, orcs vs humans being the basis for Warcraft.

And yes it is accurate, I suggest you read the chronicles for more information about the wars stormwind has been fighting.

[bufferunderrun]

u guys keep saying that ''normal'' orcs rival footman. Man u couldnt be more wrong!

in therm of strength yes, the difference is the footman being finely trained has a real soldier; to make an example a bear is stronger than a human but a trained navy seal or green beret could kill it barehanded while you and me will just run for it; still even a finely trained company would have big loss facing a pack of enraged bears with swords and muskets.

that is substantially the difference btw a alliance and horde and why the horde almost always lose in a direct confrontation but the alliance get to pay a price for the win.

The last cinematic greatly display it, while the alliance look like a real army the horde look like a band of hulks going full "smash"; plus the alliance had tech advantage just make the comparison btw the two airship hell horde airship fly with two fucking balloon.

[Deleted]

to make an example a bear is stronger than a human but a trained navy seal or green beret could kill it barehanded while you and me will just run for it;

Lmao. Mate.

[Amnaught]

I think the Horde winning Suramar is a big step in the right direction to balancing out the factions. Dalaran and the Vindicaar are pretty massive advantages, still.

[bufferunderrun]

I think the Horde winning Suramar is a big step in the right direction to balancing out the factions. Dalaran and the Vindicaar are pretty massive advantages, still.

i'm 200% sure that suramar will remain neutral and just a small part of the nightborne will join the horde.

[Deleted]

Honestly, lets have a recap, and if u have any on the Alliance side, please post:
1- Vanilla nothing really big happens
2- TBC as well, we got reinforced by each 1 faction that is relatively weak [ in terms of numbers and contrinutions ].
3- WotLK the Horde side, specifically the Forsaken have a civil war, with BOTH Alliance and Horde sieging it. I think the Horde lost big time here. Since we dont know what is cannon in the Gunship battle, and even if Alliance lost it, it isnt a big deal.
4- Cata there were lots of skirmishes, but i dont remember anything really specific that i would say were huge losses.
5- MoP.....hummmm here it gets interesting. Okay we lost Theramore and lots of big peeps there, but only served that the Horde lost Dalaran support. Then Horde gets a civil was AGAIN! Both factions siege Orgrimmar, cant say that isnt a big loss.
6- WoD i dont remember anything specifically.
7- Legion, we all lost, but idont think one lost more than the other.
And now with BoA, Alliance loose another small city, while the Horde looses a big one.
So with that in mind, am I wrong to say taht the Horde should be a lot weaker than Alliance?
ps: A forgot to mention that Garrosh even got his ass kicked in the novels, but aside from that i dont rmemeber much from it.

Good point. Now please explain why Alliance fans still keep whining about the Horde? You just said it yourself, the Alliance just keeps on winning.

[minteK917]

i'm 200% sure that suramar will remain neutral and just a small part of the nightborne will join the horde.

Would actually make sense for Suramar to join the horde. Because of what they have done in legion, they would be outcast and the alliance certainly wouldnt want them. Just like the undercity and Silvermoon, Suramar would seek the only ally it can get.

[Amnaught]

i'm 200% sure that suramar will remain neutral and just a small part of the nightborne will join the horde.

It'll remain neutral in the same way the Dalaran in Northrend remained "neutral"

[Friendlyimmolation]

i'm 200% sure that suramar will remain neutral and just a small part of the nightborne will join the horde.

Thallysra is joining the Horde, 99% sure Surumar is joining them too. Liadrin talks about bringing the Nightborne into the fold, not a fraction of them.

[AzazeltheRuthless]

It'll remain neutral in the same way the Dalaran in Northrend remained "neutral"

Dalran was neutral because Aethas Sunreaver becoming a member of the Council of Six in Dalaran. Which made Silvermoon a neutral ally with Dalaran, the Kirin Tor is a neutral faction to Horde and the Alliance. In Pandaria, when Garrosh committed his atrocities, Jaina rounded up the Sunreavers and imprisoned them. Which for a tiny bit made Dalaran technically "Alliance." In Legion, Khadgar forced Dalaran's neutrality again and made them accept Aethas back onto the Council of Six, and Jaina quit instead. Kirin Tor and Dalaran are a neutral faction as they want to represent all of magic, which both sides utilize.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Remember, back during isle of thunder only a small faction of zandalari were opposing us, imagine the full might of their empire.

Wasn't the whole point about the Trolls in ToT that they were fucked so bad resourcewise by the cataclysm, that they went out of their way to find someone for help (or invade to get them forcefully)?

[Plehnard]

Would actually make sense for Suramar to join the horde. Because of what they have done in legion, they would be outcast and the alliance certainly wouldnt want them. Just like the undercity and Silvermoon, Suramar would seek the only ally it can get.

Don't know about that. Tyrande came with her Army to their aid even though she was pretty miffed that the denizens of her old home town chose to hide instead of fighting against the Legion in the war of the ancients. She was kind of unfriendly in tone against them but that was more of a disappointment thing.
Some think it's because night elves hate mages but that isn't really a thing any more since the Shen'dralar are part of their faction again.
That and that they were saved by a night elf with the Arcan'dor makes it really feel kind of weird that they'll fight against the night elves by joining the Horde afterwards.
My guess is that they'll just join the relatives that have most in common with them and that's the blood elves.

[iamthedevil]

Wasn't the whole point about the Trolls in ToT that they were fucked so bad resourcewise by the cataclysm, that they went out of their way to find someone for help (or invade to get them forcefully)?

Those were the ones led by Prophet Zul, so they just believed anything he said. He was right about the cataclysm happening, but apparently not right about the whole place sinking. King Rastakhan stayed with the Zandalari we are getting..

[Cosmic Janitor]

My guess is that they'll just join the relatives that have most in common with them and that's the blood elves.

It essentially boils down to lady Lyandrin doing the emissary work here. Where Tyrande was bitching about the nightborn and constantly remind her she is only here because it's her birthplace, Lyandrin offered sympathies, because her people went through something similar. Later on the vindicar there is a bit with Sygrin and Lyandrin, he asks her how her people managed and how joining the horde has worked out for them. Lyandrin is also honest with them in that regard. They had to forge their own path, it wasn't easy and all that. As much als alliance player may hate it, the writing was on the wall for quite a while now.

I also wouldn't count the night elf that saved them overly much. He was part of a secret sect that worked to merge the arcane (magic) and nature (druidism) to make their people whole again. That is about as representative as my Warlock or Deathknight is representative of all DKs and Warlocks.