Paid health care is literally insane.

[Echoherb]

We don't . . . I pay $240 a pay check for insurance that covers pretty much everything for me and the wife......

For people in poverty $240 a month is a lot. They are also the people who need health care the most.

[Taso]

And free healthcare is not? I’m sorry but paying for taxes when you don’t get sick is completely dumb. Why should I waste money if I don’t get sick. Instead we should create healthcare saving accounts where everyone is entitled to it and can deposit as much as they want like an Roth IRA and take out when ever they need it to pay healthcare bills.

[Yvaelle]

Who do you think banned Medicare from negotiating drug prices?

Drug company lobbyists.

Who controls Medicare?

Health insurance companies.

Do you think the people who banned those negotiations are going to suddenly have a change of heart under Medicare for all?

You underestimate US negotiating power. The US is like half of the developed world, if a country like Canada or Finland can negotiate for a tenfold reduction in the cost of some prescription drugs, the US could do better than that due to volume commitments. You have a public system built by the private sector to ensure people with money use the private sector instead, so that the private sector gets all the money. When the public system needs anything, the private sector's goal is to ensure to maximize profit from whoever foots the bill - government - by preventing negotiation or non-corrupt control.

[oleander89]

Less regulated medical services, like cosmetic surgery & LASIK, have fallen in price over the last 15 years, despite an increasing demand and more advanced technology. How was this accomplished without price limits? Can any of the geniuses on this board explain that to me?

[Gestopft]

Your calling it the singular reason the system is so expensive demonstrates your lack of knowledge of either our healthcare industry and economics in general. You can argue very well that the current system sucks and that UHC may be better than what we have now. To blame the lack of government is laughable.

"Singular" wasn't the correct choice of word, so I'll reiterate: our inability to recognize that healthcare presents a market failure is the largest reason that the USA spends far more than any other country on healthcare. In every other developed nation, the market failure is corrected (in some way) by the government. There are of course plenty of other reasons for our high expense, such as overhead, defensive medicine, etc, but the largest problem is that medical products and services cost much, much more- because the market fails to control healthcare costs- and we don't do anything about it.

Who do you think banned Medicare from negotiating drug prices?

Congress, at the request of a pharmaceutical lobby that donates spends billions of dollars ensuring that they get what they want.

Do you think the people who banned those negotiations are going to suddenly have a change of heart under Medicare for all?

If they're actually willing to buck the insurance lobby/donors and pass single-payer, then probably yes.

[SFBayGamer]

Indeed you are correct. It was not me who brought up the red herring of the VA, but the guy I responded to. My post was about Tricare. The whole point being that the US govt actually can and frequently does get things right. We CAN do this stuff. And we can do it for all of our citizens. Because, as is so often forgot, the US govt is run by the ppl! If we wanted, we can make it happen. We went to the fucking moon using a computer that is nothing compared to the phone in my hand. All these negative nancies don’t have the fighting spirit though. It is us that make it happen. We. The. People.

Tricare for everyone in the US would be incredible, like the equivalent of air dropping in clones of Megan Fox into every teen boy's bedroom. It would be glorious and utterly impractical.

It would be glorious, even for a short period of time before the entire bureaucracy fell over from its own obesity/bloat and crushed us all.

[Gestopft]

Less regulated medical services, like cosmetic surgery & LASIK, have fallen in price over the last 15 years, despite an increasing demand and more advanced technology. How was this accomplished without price limits? Can any of the geniuses on this board explain that to me?

How many insurance companies cover cosmetic surgery?

These are procedures that generally aren't necessary, and are actually subject to price competition. They are the exception, not the rule in healthcare.

[oleander89]

Drug company lobbyists.



Health insurance companies.



You underestimate US negotiating power. The US is like half of the developed world, if a country like Canada or Finland can negotiate for a tenfold reduction in the cost of some prescription drugs, the US could do better than that due to volume commitments. You have a public system built by the private sector to ensure people with money use the private sector instead, so that the private sector gets all the money. When the public system needs anything, the private sector's goal is to ensure to maximize profit from whoever foots the bill - government - by preventing negotiation or non-corrupt control.

I agree. Lobbyists are a problem. I'm not sure why you want to give all the power to the crooks they bribe.

[Independent voter]

You underestimate US negotiating power. The US is like half of the developed world, if a country like Canada or Finland can negotiate for a tenfold reduction in the cost of some prescription drugs, the US could do better than that due to volume commitments. You have a public system built by the private sector to ensure people with money use the private sector instead, so that the private sector gets all the money. When the public system needs anything, the private sector's goal is to ensure to maximize profit from whoever foots the bill - government - by preventing negotiation or non-corrupt control.

Canada makes US companies sell their drugs in Canada at a discount. That's why it works for Canada, the drug companies are foreigners.

[Nasuuna]

I used to think it was because they're masochists of the least patriotic country in the world and that they hate their offspring, but whilst that may be true for some of them, its more likely because of lack of education, fearmongering, lobbying and government inefficiency.

I feel bad for the Americans that are stuck with this sytem and cant change it because of the uneducated.

Horribly ignorant way to put it.

Every piece of our bloated bureaucracy adds to the price of everything.

There is oversight in our medical industry, that are bought out by who they look over.


There is a line in medicare that denies the ability for the american government the ability to haggle on drug prices

Its a blank check saying, write what you want.

Same thing with our private university system+student loans.

[Gestopft]

And free healthcare is not? I’m sorry but paying for taxes when you don’t get sick is completely dumb.

That's exactly how insurance works, except that it's "premiums," not "taxes."

Why should I waste money if I don’t get sick.

Because when you do get sick and can't afford it, you don't have to go bankrupt.

Instead we should create healthcare saving accounts where everyone is entitled to it and can deposit as much as they want like an Roth IRA and take out when ever they need it to pay healthcare bills.

Most people, especially those who need it the most, won't put in enough to make it work. It'll work fine for upper-middle class people, but for the average person, insurance is a far better system. The reason we have insurance is to defray the costs for the average person that wouldn't be able to afford it on their own.

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I agree. Lobbyists are a problem. I'm not sure why you want to give all the power to the crooks they bribe.

If we kneecap their ability to bribe them, then the "crooks" will have to actually think more about what their voters, not donors, want.

[Bloodwolf]

Why didn't you go to med school and then offer health care for free? I mean, what are you, selfish or something?

As someone who's almost finished with my degree in veterinary medicine in Europe, I gotta say that I understand both sides. We have a really good working healthcaresystem in Austria, in which you are ensured by your employer or if you're without a job by the state. But the problem is that people here don't have a fucking clue about how much medical treatment costs and that it's not that easy to establish something like that from one day to the next in the USA without fucking up the economy. That's part of the reason why veterinarians are well respected in big parts of the USA and treated like shit in Europe, where they start to insult you if they have to pay more than 100€ for the treatment of their cat in the middle of the night (You literally earn more if you just start a "normal" job after finishing school).
Another reason probably is that citizens of the USA won't suddenly give away a huge chunk of their loan to pay for a "could be"-situation when they haven't before (In order for healthcare to work, you gotta give away a pretty big part of it, hence the big difference between gross and net). I mean I wouldn't be amused if I suddenly had a lot less money available per month.

[oleander89]

That's exactly how insurance works, except that it's "premiums," not "taxes."



Because when you do get sick and can't afford it, you don't have to go bankrupt.



Most people, especially those who need it the most, won't put in enough to make it work. It'll work fine for upper-middle class people, but for the average person, insurance is a far better system. The reason we have insurance is to defray the costs for the average person that wouldn't be able to afford it on their own.

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If we kneecap their ability to bribe them, then the "crooks" will have to actually think more about what their voters, not donors, want.

Who is going to kneecap them? The ones being bribed pass the laws. We keep voting them in.

[Allybeboba]

Healthcare topic number 1 million.

And America bashing gazillion that doesn’t get infracted or closed. Go figure... /shrug

[Yvaelle]

I agree. Lobbyists are a problem. I'm not sure why you want to give all the power to the crooks they bribe.

The lobbyists are crooks too. You are advocating allowing them to retain all the power, while providing you no recourse, transparency, or accountability. You can fire your government representatives, you can't fire your lobbyists.

Canada makes US companies sell their drugs in Canada at a discount. That's why it works for Canada, the drug companies are foreigners.

A) Multi-national corporations have no national loyalty, the big pharma companies are not US companies.
B) The US could make MNC's (multinational corporations) or US companies (for that matter) sell their drugs are a discount, they just don't even try.
C) MNC's are foreigners to Canada, they are foreigners to everywhere - they pledge allegiance to profit - no one else. If selling at a discount is still profitable, it is always preferable to not selling (enabling your competitor).

[Gestopft]

Who is going to kneecap them? The ones being bribed pass the laws. We keep voting them in.

Congress will have to, but it will absolutely take a consistent and concerted effort from the voters to put pressure on lawmakers to do so. To me, this is the issue of our time: we aren't going to fix much of anything in this country until we can come together and get campaign finance reform passed. Voters largely agree on this, but we have to make it the defining issue of multiple elections.

If we're exceptionally lucky (I wouldn't count on it though), healthcare can be enough of a galvanizing issue that legislators realize that they can a) find the courage go against lobbyists to actually address a problem, and b) be rewarded by the voters for it. I'm not holding out hopes; I think that Issue Number One is voters making money in politics our issue de jour- for many, many years.

[oleander89]

The lobbyists are crooks too. You are advocating allowing them to retain all the power, while providing you no recourse, transparency, or accountability. You can fire your government representatives, you can't fire your lobbyists.



A) Multi-national corporations have no national loyalty, the big pharma companies are not US companies.
B) The US could make MNC's (multinational corporations) or US companies (for that matter) sell their drugs are a discount, they just don't even try.
C) MNC's are foreigners to Canada, they are foreigners to everywhere - they pledge allegiance to profit - no one else. If selling at a discount is still profitable, it is always preferable to not selling (enabling your competitor).

I wish lobbyists didn't exist. They are a cancer to the country. I just don't trust our politicians to do anything about them and I don't trust the voters to care enough to hold them accountable.

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Congress will have to, but it will absolutely take a consistent and concerted effort from the voters to put pressure on lawmakers to do so. To me, this is the issue of our time: we aren't going to fix much of anything in this country until we can come together and get campaign finance reform passed. Voters largely agree on this, but we have to make it the defining issue of multiple elections.

If we're exceptionally lucky (I wouldn't count on it though), healthcare can be enough of a galvanizing issue that legislators realize that they can a) find the courage go against lobbyists to actually address a problem, and b) be rewarded by the voters for it. I'm not holding out hopes; I think that Issue Number One is voters making money in politics our issue de jour- for many, many years.

Cool. Let me know when we stop arguing about microaggressions so we can get to this next.

[Gestopft]

Cool. Let me know when we stop arguing about microaggressions so we can get to this next.

I never started. I'm ready.

Society at large...you have a point. Still: do you have a better solution, or should we just give up?

[Lockon Stratos]

I pay $30 every 2 weeks, my employer pays $180, I have a deductible of about $1350. All preventive procedures are covered at 100%. On top of that, the insurance company gives me money for certain things i.e not smoking, keeping a BMI below 25 or so (I forget), and taking a questionaire.

Between incentives I can get almost 2k in my HSA, which if I don't use those funds in a year, I can invest them for extra profit.

[truckboattruck]

if you think its too high then dont buy it.
if enough people do the same then the cost will go down.

you dont NEED health insurance, it isnt a human right or a right of any kind.
its a business