Traditional raid tier sets will be removed with BfA

[Taeldorian]

Do you even know how the current M+ systems work? Ignoring TF text because it doesn't matter M+15 on Tuesday, November 28th, will drop the same ilvl as heroic Antorus just like a M+10 drops the same ilvl as Heroic ToS now. The chest at the end of the week will a award a mythic quality piece.

If nothing changes with the M+ you could have full mythic level gear just doing M+ weekly and getting a little bit lucky.

We’re going to have to see what changes. We need more information on basically everything including the azerite armor. I get what you’re saying, but I have no idea how the scaling will work in BfA.

[Hotsforyou]

Moving further and further away from the RPG part. I'm out once we clear heroic Antorus. Will wait for classic servers.

[Taeldorian]

People just alienate this little things man...this are very important things that got lost with the times.
The visual aspect of things is very important for motivation. It's very powerful if done correctly.

Eh, I don’t think it matters anymore. Nobody really cares what you have on.

Back in 2004 when nobody really knew anything about WoW/MMORPGs in general yeah, it was cool to see someone in full judgement when I had no idea how to get that gear/where to get it.

Now though, with a really quick google search you can see where everything in the game comes from. This is exactly why the classic vanilla server won’t be having this visual motivation like it did in 2004. Everyone knows everything.

[Onikaroshi]

We’re going to have to see what changes. We need more information on basically everything including the azerite armor. I get what you’re saying, but I have no idea how the scaling will work in BfA.

I have no issue with M+ being lucrative, don't get me wrong. But they need to give raiding higher incentive then M+, and this WAS gear sets, or people will take the easy way out and that hurts everyone.

Basically if the trash M+ to save raiding you kill M+, but if they don't dangle something over raiding people will just spam M+.

Raiding is just much harder logistically to manage then M+.

[Mr. Smith]

This could be a great change if they give individual pieces of gear different procs and abilities for players to experiment with. I assume the Heart is intended to do something like that, but I have my doubts that those abilities will be as interesting or fun as what Tier bonuses normally do. I'll be happy to be proven wrong though.

[Taeldorian]

Moving further and further away from the RPG part. I'm out once we clear heroic Antorus. Will wait for classic servers.

How is getting rid of tier bonuses moving further from the RPG part of WoW? Especially when it’s being replaced with azerite armor/HoA which are 2 much better systems.

Explain that to me though. How is this moving away from the RPG part of wow? How did tier bonuses contribute to that and why won’t azerite gear contribute in the same way even though it’s the same thing but more polished?

[Niwes]

as much as i hate diablofication of wow, i have to say this:

gearing in Legion is horror. its a mess.

- with WF/TF you have combinations of gear that offer the question „4set or 2set or full WF/TF ?“.
- with new relic system you ask yourself „which relic is better ?“.
- with many Legendaries the question is „which combination is best ?“.
- and lets assume we not additionally have to ask all that paired with „for what use ? ST or AoE ?“.

have you ever tried to get an accurate answer to above questions ? its nearly impossible. even with AMR, simc, or theorycrafting class sites. its an absurd investigation effort. its more worse than it ever was. regardless if TBC, MoP or Warlords.

so, either they go back to a straight gearing route, keep Tier Sets, without TF/WF influences, RNG and drizillion combinations of traits or Legendary effects. or diablofy that game again, but then get rid off any „routes“ or must haves, like tier sets, nobody can calc.

in my oppinion, either gearing must be calcable, or everything must be that balanced that you really just choose between your playstyles (used talents) and orientation (ST/AoE). but you cant give ppl a lot of „this gives way better dps“ stuff, while making it nearly impossible to tell WHAT. the gaps are way to big in Legion.

the state of the game, gearing wise, is a complete mess at the moment. its impossible to handle min/max (even slightly) without investigating endless time and effort. and at the end, you still cant really say: thats it. this is horrible.

so: either diablo OR wow. but not both.

[RoKPaNda]

This is pretty typical of new-blizzard.

-Take a traditional system (tier sets)
-Make a small change to them that people hate (titanforging/2set+4set)
-Instead of reversing new change, scrap the traditional system entirely

A very small percentage of players hate TF. Most Mythic raiders (3% of the playerbase.) and people below that who don't know any better because their YouTube hero told them TF is bad.

[gioderpington]

Oh thank the maker. It annoys the hell outta me that I have 3 950-950 pieces I cannot use because I need my 4 set... Wouldn't be a problem if tier set pieces could be manually titanforged, like WoD system or something.
What littler flavor was added could be added via more complex trinkets tbh

[Taeldorian]

I have no issue with M+ being lucrative, don't get me wrong. But they need to give raiding higher incentive then M+, and this WAS gear sets, or people will take the easy way out and that hurts everyone.

Basically if the trash M+ to save raiding you kill M+, but if they don't dangle something over raiding people will just spam M+.

Raiding is just much harder logistically to manage then M+.

I agree. You’re definitely right, we’ll have to see.

I would assume azerite gear is going to be the motivation, however I have no idea. They could also change M+ scaling slightly. No clue though. Will have to see how it plays out.

[RoKPaNda]

I have no issue with M+ being lucrative, don't get me wrong. But they need to give raiding higher incentive then M+, and this WAS gear sets, or people will take the easy way out and that hurts everyone.

Basically if the trash M+ to save raiding you kill M+, but if they don't dangle something over raiding people will just spam M+.

Raiding is just much harder logistically to manage then M+.

As a raider, if they can't make raiding more compelling then just let it die. If people choose to do something else then raiding can be scrapped honestly.

[Halicia]

Thank god. I don't know how many tiers me or a guildie has just had "awful luck" getting that certain tier piece to drop for their mains and it costs them a significant percentage of their performance, but in the meantime their alts get geared thru the nose.

[Onikaroshi]

As a raider, if they can't make raiding more compelling then just let it die. If people choose to do something else then raiding can be scrapped honestly.

And unfortunately that's when my 13+ year stay in this game ends, wow without raiding just isn't wow.

[toxicrusader]

To hell with bonuses.

Just keep awesome appearances coming and I'm cool with it.

[Deleted]

I think it's time to say goodbye to tier bonuses, but I hope there will be class tiers as a visual reward though.

[Stickinator]

tier sets was only good when they added interesting things.
now its like you do fuck all dps till you get that sweet set.
And the set bonuses will determine if your class will do good dps or not and the bonuses varies so much from class to class.

I dont mind at all if set bonuses goes away and they just focus on the core gameplay of the classes instead of balancing the class around a set (meaning your class feels incomplete without the proper set bonus).
make classes good from the start instead of realying on set bonuses.
And if there are no sets then that means there is one less thing they need to tune to make classes more equal in terms of power and so on.

So i would say dont go saying this is the worst thing ever about this change before you see it in action.

[Molvonos]

Eh, I don’t think it matters anymore. Nobody really cares what you have on.

Back in 2004 when nobody really knew anything about WoW/MMORPGs in general yeah, it was cool to see someone in full judgement when I had no idea how to get that gear/where to get it.

Now though, with a really quick google search you can see where everything in the game comes from. This is exactly why the classic vanilla server won’t be having this visual motivation like it did in 2004. Everyone knows everything.

Unfortunately, Shadow's been told that for the last 2 years, but they continue to troll and act like a vast majority of the people who play and raid care about 'Epeen' status.

[Deleted]

Eh, I don’t think it matters anymore. Nobody really cares what you have on.

Back in 2004 when nobody really knew anything about WoW/MMORPGs in general yeah, it was cool to see someone in full judgement when I had no idea how to get that gear/where to get it.

Now though, with a really quick google search you can see where everything in the game comes from. This is exactly why the classic vanilla server won’t be having this visual motivation like it did in 2004. Everyone knows everything.

I'm talking about the visual aspect of actually having tier pieces when you inspect. The set bonuses and the list of items.
I'm not even getting started with the transmog. Once i get started there i can't shut up.

People need to have a reason to want to raid. Something that inspires the crowd. Something poweful visualy.

And the stuff you are saying about "information ruining the experience" is not true.
Even if you google the items you still can't get them, lol. You have to work for them. That's what makes them special.

[shaunika123]

on the bright side, at least not every single weekly chest reward will be completely unusable this way.

But I think this is not a good change.

unless they do something very brilliant with azerite and different tiers. Because for me one of the biggest perks of setbonuses was that it usually changed how i play my class each tier at least slightly. which helped keep it fresh.

IF the azerite bonuses from each tier will be vastly different, and more and more powerful, then I'm okay with it.

it'll also make gearing for raids on the HC week a lot better since now we wont have to forcefeed a 4pc to one person even with suboptimal pieces just so someone will have it., but can distribute loot a bit more equally.

ironically though, I'm going from the most contested token (vanquisher) to the most contested loot type (leather) so I guess I'M staying fucked on that front.

[cparle87]

Good riddance.

Tier gear was always a "I need it to raid efficiently otherwise im bad" kinda thing, it also sucked locking down slots. OH NEAT I GOT THIS PIECE OF GE- Oh teir slot...


But yeah let people whine and bitch, this is a huge positive to the game in my view.

This. My idea was once you killed a 'tier' boss you got this scroll you learned kinda like a weapon enchant appearance that would let you mark a piece of gear as 'tier.' So you could wear what was best for you and still have tier bonuses. But I can live with this.