Traditional raid tier sets will be removed with BfA

[Aaronioslo]

As a raider, if they can't make raiding more compelling then just let it die. If people choose to do something else then raiding can be scrapped honestly.

do you not find your two replies contradicting each other? it's exactly titanforging that removed the incentive for raiding

[huehuehue]

Well i definitely wont be returning to WoW now save Vanilla. Watch them backtrack/reverse decision.

I'll give this a try but I'm right there with you.

Azerite armor/HoA neck will do exactly that. It’ll be way more interesting than tier. Do you know nothing about the next expac?

We will get to choose passives/traits on our azerite armor (helm, shoulders, chest) as well as our neck. How is that boring? If anything it’s better than tier. We have way more options.

lets take away from the game to make another 1 xpac long fad look appealing. See you next xpac tier sets, welcome back weapons.

[Daedius]

I'm on the fence of this, great that we'll no longer be restricted by gear choice [statwise and ilvl] in favour of dps boosting Tier effects even if said piece is of lesser stats/ilvl... but then I do like those effects too, gives the classes some "fresh air" between each raid tier.

[Deleted]

Unfortunately, Shadow's been told that for the last 2 years, but they continue to troll and act like a vast majority of the people who play and raid care about 'Epeen' status.

Sorry if i am a sucker for art that inspires crowds.

I don't even make more threads QQ'ing because i will have Classic to fall on. I'm happy (for now)

[Niwes]

A very small percentage of players hate TF. Most Mythic raiders (3% of the playerbase.) and people below that who don't know any better because their YouTube hero told them TF is bad.

and which data is the proof of your argument? how do you know how much ppl hate WF/TF ?

i personally know around 50 ppl in wow. max 10-12 are myth raiders. rest is mostly HC or normal, but with 2-3 alts. literally NOBODY of them likes WF/TF.

especially the alt faction live in a complete horror sceanrio, if they just want to answer the simple question „which gear combo is best for me?“. on 3 chars this kill them 4-5 hours a week, just to answer.

min/maxing is fun. theorycrafting is an integral part of wow. but getting 3-4 combinations out of 35373625, after studying/compare/sim/test them all, while having huge gaps in dps, IS NOT FUN.

[khazmodan]

I have no issue with M+ being lucrative, don't get me wrong. But they need to give raiding higher incentive then M+, and this WAS gear sets, or people will take the easy way out and that hurts everyone.

Basically if the trash M+ to save raiding you kill M+, but if they don't dangle something over raiding people will just spam M+.

Raiding is just much harder logistically to manage then M+.

This seems to be the direction Blizz wants to go in: end the need for cooperation and leadership. With the return of scenarios, there will be even more anonymity and apathy in groups and the direction will probably be to make all classes able and encouraged to do solo game play. This is what many in the raiding scene wanted though; smaller raid groups so they dont have to manage people. Mythic dungeons are the smallest groups yet for getting raid quality gear and Legion showed that you didnt even need to raid at all to be competitive in gearing with top raiders.
Vanilla WoW may not last long but it sure will be nice to experience a real community in WoW again....as long as the bitter current dev team isnt allowed to screw it up.

[nothingsjim]

I hope they at least keep the Transmog Set, like the Chosen Dead set in Trial of Valor, Dark Shaman set in SoO, for instance.

As for traditional raid set...I say just let it go. It forces all players to use the same pieces of equipment due to the bonus. I would rather much have bosses drop tokens that can be applied to any piece of your armor and make it give tier bonus, much more flexible.

[shaunika123]

and which data is the proof of your argument? how do you know how much ppl hate WF/TF ?

i personally know around 50 ppl in wow. max 10-12 are myth raiders. rest is mostly HC or normal, but with 2-3 alts. literally NOBODY of them likes WF/TF.

especially the alt faction live in a complete horror sceanrio, if they just want to answer the simple question „which gear combo is best for me?“. on 3 chars this kill them 4-5 hours a week, just to answer.

min/maxing is fun. theorycrafting is an integral part of wow. but getting 3-4 combinations out of 35373625, after studying/compare/sim/test them all, while having huge gaps in dps, IS NOT FUN.

I'm sorry but in what way does TF affect normal/HC raiders negatively? all they can do is benefit from it.

and it's not like we have programs and websites that TELL you which gear is the best for you in like 3 minutes. so yeah that shouldnt really be a struggle.

it also helps alts a lot, since the lower content you do the more potential reward it has.


the only people this really "hurts", are mythic raiders, but even then it's a glass half empty glass half full situation "well boss first kills arent as rewarding anymore, but refarming bosses is more rewarding"

does it suck that on our 2nd KJ mythic kill only 2 loots were actual upgrades (one of which being a 955 TF roll)? yes
is it great that even after 6(?) months goroth can still drop upgrades? yes

[Aaronioslo]

Azerite armor/HoA neck will do exactly that. It’ll be way more interesting than tier. Do you know nothing about the next expac?

We will get to choose passives/traits on our azerite armor (helm, shoulders, chest) as well as our neck. How is that boring? If anything it’s better than tier. We have way more options.

haha, your ghost wolf makes you move 5% faster vs. you take 5% less damage with astral shift on. both are so exciting, totally tier set level excitement, I'm too excited to sleep for a week after seeing that.

[Emerald Archer]

Bit confused, are they just removing the set bonuses? or raid sets entirely?

I certainly hope it's not raid sets entirely!! that would suck balls. Raid sets have long been a staple of WoW. They are removing raid sets cos they felt it locked the player into what exactly?

Excitement dwindling. The less traditions we lose, the more i don't want to play

Sets should still be around, just in a much more interesting way. Rather than Blizz using tier as "bandage fixes" they can fix the spec, and make interesting set bonuses.

[ItsTiddles]

I don't know how the system will be come BfA, but currently you get a "mythic raid ilvl" piece weekly from doing m+. So yes, it's not something you can farm, but to say that you'll have to do mythic raiding to get BiS pieces on azurite slots is strange because there is no current proof that it'll end up that way.

[Holdodlig]

It actually makes sense to remove tier sets with the azerite system. Right now helm, chest and shoulderplates are the pieces affected by the heart of Azeroth.

Now, I want to see how balanced will be the azurite bonuses on each item, because I think the point is to allow you to play more build but if a build is way over the top, everybody will focus on optimization and all of this will be useless.

EDIT : And they said those pieces will not be titanforged.

[Emerald Archer]

Honestly, looking at Antorus, gear wise I have 10 slots "locked" gear wise, 0 options on what goes in them.

I'm personally very excited to have 8 (or 10 if lucky) of those slots back next expansion.

[Zelk]

sets for each class are good, set bonuses are good and this change is very bad.

[Niwes]

I have no issue with M+ being lucrative, don't get me wrong. But they need to give raiding higher incentive then M+, and this WAS gear sets, or people will take the easy way out and that hurts everyone.

Basically if the trash M+ to save raiding you kill M+, but if they don't dangle something over raiding people will just spam M+.

Raiding is just much harder logistically to manage then M+.

especially when you look at the PUG scene. its a million times easier to run 10th myth+ in PUGs than killing bosses after Hajatar.

typical scenario is this:

4 hour evening. 1 or 2 bosses down after Hajatar, in ToS HC, cause of endless regroup-1try-massleave-regroup. 0-1 items. in the same time i did 5-6 myth+ in PUGs and get 2-4 items, even higher than in ToS HC.

at the end of the day myth+ dont kill raiding. bad tools, bad meta gaming support from game, non existing matchmaking or player analyses by game that is more accurate than simple plain ilvl, bad guild support, WF/TF vs tier sets vs Legendary combinations vs old WF trinkets vs modern trinkets..., all that stuff is killing raiding.

because ppl give a fuck. they just wanna play and get some (better) loot. so they go into myth+ and call it a day, after realizing the mess that organizing a guild or PUG raid rinse n repeat is.

[shaunika123]

Honestly, looking at Antorus, gear wise I have 10 slots "locked" gear wise, 0 options on what goes in them.

I'm personally very excited to have 8 (or 10 if lucky) of those slots back next expansion.

wait 10? do you count trinkets? or what?

2 legendaries 4 set items, even if both legendaries take up set item slots that's 6 slots locked, what are the other 4?

[Aaronioslo]

wait 10? do you count trinkets? or what?

2 legendaries 4 set items, even if both legendaries take up set item slots that's 6 slots locked, what are the other 4?

2 tier piece from last tier 4 tier piece from current tier, 2 legendaries, 2 weapon slot

[huehuehue]

The points Ion makes against tier sets are very valid, and Legion especially showcased those flaws.

I will wait to see more on how they plan to do this before I light my torch.

The flaws developed because of their design changes over time. Its a shame, but I hope they keep class sets and not just cloth/leather/mail/plate.

[Talvindius]

Potentially a cool change, it's gonna be nice to not have to farm tier sets for an entire raid tier. Brings a lot more potential to gearing through M+.

Seems like a good change.

[Roccatex]

Good change. Instead of set tier pieces with crappy stats, we can finally use, what we want. Even better with more options. Clever workaround.