Paid health care is literally insane.

[Echoherb]

I pay $30 every 2 weeks, my employer pays $180, I have a deductible of about $1350. All preventive procedures are covered at 100%. On top of that, the insurance company gives me money for certain things i.e not smoking, keeping a BMI below 25 or so (I forget), and taking a questionaire.

Between incentives I can get almost 2k in my HSA, which if I don't use those funds in a year, I can invest them for extra profit.

Cool, poor people can't afford any of this, and they are the ones who need it the most.

[Stop Pretending]

if you think its too high then dont buy it.
if enough people do the same then the cost will go down.

you dont NEED health insurance, it isnt a human right or a right of any kind.
its a business

You don't NEED a gun, gun ownership isn't a human right, but I'm guessing you'd flip shit if they decided to take yours away.

[Notshauna]

if you think its too high then dont buy it.
if enough people do the same then the cost will go down.

you dont NEED health insurance, it isnt a human right or a right of any kind.
its a business

I really wonder what definition of need fails to include access to basic health care. If you don't "need" access to healthcare what do you "need"?

[Stormdash]

Please, spare us. Strangers pay for the majority of U.S. healthcare - we pay insurance, which I guess is what you categorize as "responsible for our own".

Your voluntary contractual arrangement? Yes, that's you taking care of your own healthcare expenses.

[oleander89]

You don't NEED a gun, gun ownership isn't a human right, but I'm guessing you'd flip shit if they decided to take yours away.

The gun I bought and paid for? Yes. If the government was wanting to use tax dollars to provide a gun to every citizen, I would think that would be rather stupid. Did you think this analogy through at all? You are comparing access to entitlement.

[Echoherb]

It's funny how americans complain about paying taxes for socialized health care, but are ok with paying private insurance companies for the same thing. It doesn't make any sense.

[Logwyn]

The thing is that when you see people being charged 2k for a few stitches it's because they went to the Emergency Room rather than the area for non-emergencies

Needing stitches can be an emergency or it can not be. Depends on where and the severity of the bleeding. I'm not sure that we can expect the common person to completely know everything. Is a broken bone an emergency? Depends on severity. What about a cough?

I'm dizzy....what do I do? Wait for the doctor tomorrow? Next week? Call 911? Go to urgent care? Go to the emergency room?
It could be anything from nothing to a stroke.

How do you explain I go for an X-ray. They file it on insurance. It costs 300 dollars. If I agree for it to be out of pocket its just 50 no insurance claim. Why does an aspirin in the hospital cost 200 dollars for one pill but I can get a few hundred for 5 bucks. (Same exact pill and they won't let me use the ones from walmart instead.)

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You don't NEED a gun, gun ownership isn't a human right, but I'm guessing you'd flip shit if they decided to take yours away.

See 2nd amendment please. Or do you want to shred up the Constitution some?

[oleander89]

It's funny how americans complain about paying taxes for socialized health care, but are ok with paying private insurance companies for the same thing. It doesn't make any sense.

It's funny how Americans complain about being mugged but are ok with voluntarily giving to the homeless. It doesn't make any sense.

[misterpuk]

It's funny how americans complain about paying taxes for socialized health care, but are ok with paying private insurance companies for the same thing. It doesn't make any sense.

Paying a private company for something that is elective is vastly different then mandated payments to the government. Its a matter of personal choice and responsibility vs paying a mandated tax and having little choice in what care is and isn't available.

[Stop Pretending]

Needing stitches can be an emergency or it can not be. Depends on where and the severity of the bleeding. I'm not sure that we can expect the common person to completely know everything. Is a broken bone an emergency? Depends on severity. What about a cough?

I'm dizzy....what do I do? Wait for the doctor tomorrow? Next week? Call 911? Go to urgent care? Go to the emergency room?
It could be anything from nothing to a stroke.

How do you explain I go for an X-ray. They file it on insurance. It costs 300 dollars. If I agree for it to be out of pocket its just 50 no insurance claim. Why does an aspirin in the hospital cost 200 dollars for one pill but I can get a few hundred for 5 bucks. (Same exact pill and they won't let me use the ones from walmart instead.)

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See 2nd amendment please. Or do you want to shred up the Constitution some?

Oh please. You gun nuts are always trying disregard the constitution with voter I'd laws, minimizing women's rights, but when it comes to your guns then you want to cry about your constitutional right.

[Echoherb]

Paying a private company for something that is elective is vastly different then mandated payments to the government. Its a matter of personal choice and responsibility vs paying a mandated tax and having little choice in what care is and isn't available.

What about the people who can't afford this personal choice and get sick or injured?

[Stop Pretending]

What about the people who can't afford this personal choice and get sick or injured?

If you're asking a hypocritical Republican, they say " oh well, should have gotten a job, but they can just die. "

[Eurytos]

Tricare for everyone in the US would be incredible, like the equivalent of air dropping in clones of Megan Fox into every teen boy's bedroom. It would be glorious and utterly impractical.

It would be glorious, even for a short period of time before the entire bureaucracy fell over from its own obesity/bloat and crushed us all.

I'm under no illusions this is going to happen over night, by I do think its possible.
I'm also under no illusion that it would function as well as it does now, adding millions of people to something surely complicates it.

My point is that it is ludicrous to tell me that 1) we can't afford it. (this is truly the most laughable of all, if fucking Cuba can give world class healthcare to their citizens, even the poor ones, then America can afford to as well.) and 2) that its not possible.

I refuse to believe that anything is impossible. Whatever happened to american innovation, ingenuity. I gave the example earlier about going to the moon on a 6th grade calculator basically. Furthermore, FDR and the New Deal was a massive government works and entitlements projects that worked, and continue to work as long is we make them work. And every one of your grandparents and elderly family members votes til their dying day, Rs and Ds, to make sure the government doesn't touch their Social Security and Medicare.

If the rest of us demanded it, we could make it happen. And if we remain vigilante, we could make it work for us too. Don't give any bullshit about government bureaucracy. The things we want to work, work perfectly fine. The things that fall by the wayside, shit gets fucked up.

Heres the other thing, everyone arguing against this doesn't NOT want this type of care. They have excuses, often fed to them by folks with agendas, for why it supposedly won't work or is a bad idea. For fucks sake, we are the government. If we want something, we get it.

Also, heres another reason why "it costs too much" doesn't fly...the Iraq War(trillions of dollars folks, hello, have we forgotten this war put on the credit card???), warships and war planes literally no one wants that cost billions, and countless other things that we pay for that we 100% don't need, stuff no one asked for. Military industrial complex is destroying our country more than anything else. And don't misquote me, I'm not talking about paying our soldiers, hell, they should be getting raises. That we can pay for too. Its all the other shit that neither them nor their generals asked for. Also the fact that Rs spend like crazy, as much as they claim Ds do, they do equally. Rs haven't done shit in the last 50 years to lower deficit spending or the debt. Like, literally, the numbers are in! R policies haven't worked. This is not even debatable. But now I've gotten off topic.

Don't tell me we can't do this. Far less "rich" countries have universal care.

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Oh please. You gun nuts are always trying disregard the constitution with voter I'd laws, minimizing women's rights, but when it comes to your guns then you want to cry about your constitutional right.

I say take away all their guns, and melt them down. Then, when they get mad, just offer them your thoughts and prayers. Should work, no problemo

[oleander89]

Oh please. You gun nuts are always trying disregard the constitution with voter I'd laws, minimizing women's rights, but when it comes to your guns then you want to cry about your constitutional right.

The Constitution was written with universal suffrage in mind?

[Stop Pretending]

The Constitution was written with universal suffrage in mind?

Was it written so people could have assault weapons?

[oleander89]

Was it written so people could have assault weapons?

Yes, as it was written soon after a time where citizens used guns to kill government employees.

[Eurytos]

Yes, as it was written soon after a time where citizens used guns to kill government employees.

This is demonstrably false. DC v. Heller, from 2008(!) was actually the first time the 2nd amendment was ever applied to individuals right to own firearms unconnected with military service. Written by the ultra liberal, Antonin Scalia. In which he also said that you can't own anything you want. So, nice try, pal.

So, stop lying. Just stop. IF you had any credibility on anything, its now gone. Just stop.

[oleander89]

This is demonstrably false. DC v. Heller, from 2008(!) was actually the first time the 2nd amendment was ever applied to individuals right to own firearms unconnected with military service. Written by the ultra liberal, Antonin Scalia. In which he also said that you can't own anything you want. So, nice try, pal.

So, stop lying. Just stop. IF you had any credibility on anything, its now gone. Just stop.

I'm not sure if you know what demonstrably false is, but the question was "Was it written so people could have assault weapons?" Neither of us can can demonstrably prove our case. The supreme court has been poisoned by activist judges who would prefer to legislate than to interpret the Constitution since at least eh 60s, so I wouldn't take their decisions as Constitutional originalism anyway.

[DesMephisto]

We should just force doctors to work for free?

The people who state "Why pay" don't understand that a large portion of their taxes goes towards universal healthcare. So realistically people end up paying the same, or less for everyone to be able to have healthcare, including those who can't afford the taxes for it. This results in a healthier society.

[Eurytos]

I'm not sure if you know what demonstrably false is, but the question was "Was it written so people could have assault weapons?" Neither of us can can demonstrably prove our case. The supreme court has been poisoned by activist judges who would prefer to legislate than to interpret the Constitution since at least eh 60s, so I wouldn't take their decisions as Constitutional originalism anyway.

Actually, I just demonstrated how thats the case. Prior to DC v. Heller, there was no individual right to bear arms outside of military service. This is indisputable. Justice Scalia, on of the most conservative judges to ever sit on the court, wrote the opinion. I agree that Scalia's originalism was brought out when he wanted, and hid away when it contradicted something he wanted to get done. Regardless, of what you think, this is a fact. It happened in 2008.

Nonetheless, I'd have you look up the definitions of Jurisprudence Constante and Stare Decisis. "Activist" judges is another bullshit phrase someone fed you. It's meaningless actually. Judges often have passed law from the bench. The supreme court, from its inception until this very day still do it. It is made to do it. Only then to either have their opinions codified into law, or to have a law written to explicitly change what the judge ruled. This is literally how the Judiciary and the Legislative Branches of government work. They check and balance. Goddamn, this is high school level shit.