Using physical force to punish a kid

[Orange Joe]

You hit me = assault
You hit my child = assault
You hit your own child = discipline

You get a free pass to assault a child because you’re their legal guardian, when in all other instances it would be considered assault? That’s not logical.

If anyone tried to report to the police that I hit them as hard as I spank a child they would laugh at the person and tell him to go home.

[Gestopft]

...and yet most of modern society has become safer as a whole despite all those generations of spanking, which according to "studies" should have made things worse.

What a completely pointless thing to say.

[Orange Joe]

Spitting on someone is assault. A mere slap, even if it’s not hard, can be considered assault.

Can be, yes. Most time it isn't. Hell, in the right cases just touching someone can be assault.


That doesn't mean all use of physical force is bad.


As shown with police, people in authority have the right to use "justifiable" force. Being a parent puts you in authority over your children.


Before you even try I'm not talking about out right beating your kid.

[Bapestar]

It was not something the students ever shied away I from talking about. Belts mostly, a few would have to cut switches, some of the worst off were "disciplined" with anything their parents could find nearby like a hot wheels track.

My point isn't that those students became that way due to spanking/whoopings (as they usually called them), it's that correlation does not equal causation and those using anecdotes for why spanking helped them, one could easily cite anecdotal evidence for why spanking hindered them or others they observed growing up.

Yea well it's a never ending debate because spanking can prevent kids from misbehaving.

[Shadowferal]

You hit me = assault
You hit my child = assault
You hit your own child = discipline

You get a free pass to assault a child because you’re their legal guardian, when in all other instances it would be considered assault? That’s not logical.

I'm sorry if your..."logic" doesn't follow the law here in the US.
But here we have specifics as to what pertains as abuse legally.

- - - Updated - - -

What a completely pointless thing to say.

Considering how "logical" your post was...that goes right back at you.

[Deleted]

Humility is a great form of punishment. As long as you comfort the child after they have learned their lesson.

[Techno-Druid]

Yea well it's a never ending debate because spanking can prevent kids from misbehaving.

So can a lot of things, but that doesn't make them the most ethical or non-invasive disciplinary measure.

[xero5141]

How is it harmful? Did you read my post? Most of us born in early 80s and before were beaten. But we were far better kids than what today's children are.

Better kids, why? Because you stuck to your own business and were "seen, not heard"? Because you didn't want to be hit again? I don't physically punish my children and all four of them are amazing.

Maybe your generation behaved better as children, but the simple fact that you think it's okay to "beat" children tells me that you aren't half the adult any one of my daughters will be.

- - - Updated - - -

Yea well it's a never ending debate because spanking can prevent kids from misbehaving.

I'm not sure you're going to find someone who will tell you that spanking isn't effective in preventing a child from doing something you don't want them to do. The fact is that it causes irreparable damage to most children and especially those with predispositions.

[Gestopft]

Considering how "logical" your post was...that goes right back at you.

There are tons of things that have made societies today safer and more prosperous than before, and I'm pretty sure there are zero studies that suggest that this shouldn't have been possible because of spankings. Some things have far more effect on society than other things, like advances in technology, lower crime overall, and economic prosperity.

Furthermore, we don't have any way of comparing our world to what a world in which generations of parents hadn't spanked their children would look like (probably not much different), so it's not like we can make any kind of comparison. And I doubt that anybody would seriously say "we would be (x) much better off if only we hadn't spanked people."

All I said is that there are better ways of discipline, both in terms of effectiveness and morality.

[zephid]

I was born in the 80's, I was spanked, I wasn't physically abused, and I've never spent a single day in jail my entire life...

I was also born in the 80s, I wasn't spanked, and I've never spent a single day in jail my entire life. The same goes for all of my family members, my friends and their families, etc. The only person I personally know that was spanked during his upbringing was my grandfather, who was born in the 1920s.

[Bapestar]

Better kids, why? Because you stuck to your own business and were "seen, not heard"? Because you didn't want to be hit again? I don't physically punish my children and all four of them are amazing.

Maybe your generation behaved better as children, but the simple fact that you think it's okay to "beat" children tells me that you aren't half the adult any one of my daughters will be.

- - - Updated - - -



I'm not sure you're going to find someone who will tell you that spanking isn't effective in preventing a child from doing something you don't want them to do. The fact is that it causes irreparable damage to most children and especially those with predispositions.

Where is your source?

[xero5141]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3447048/

As if being systematically abused and beaten for your formative years causing damage needs to have a source linked...

Thanks!

[Shadowferal]

You're arguing against yourself and you don't even realize it. Corporal punishment is less common than it was decades ago. If it were becoming more common then you might have an argument but you're already wrong in your assumed correlation. So, corporal punishment has been decreasing and crime as well.

No, you're "logic" isn't following the "why."
Maybe things are safer "today" because "yesterday" children learned and understood that there are consequences for not following the rules.
Unlike what may follow "tomorrow."

[Putin-Chan]

I looked through this shitshow yesterday, and I decided I'd like to put in my two cents.

First of all, beatings and spankings are two completely different things, I can perfectly approve of spankings, where they cause enough pain to reprimand a child, but not too much to emotionally scar them, or instill fear. I can't think of a single reason a child needs to be beaten.

I was spanked infrequently as a child, when I deserved it, and I learned what I did wrong, and don't have any memory of being spanked after I was 4 or 5.

[Bapestar]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3447048/

From the article:
"some studies have found no relation between physical punishment and negative outcomes, and others have found the relation to be moderated by other factors"

"Another large Canadian study41 found that children who were spanked by their parents were seven times more likely to be severely assaulted by their parents (e.g., punched or kicked) than children who were not spanked. In an American study, infants in their first year of life who had been spanked by their parents in the previous month were 2.3 times more likely to suffer an injury requiring medical attention than infants"

So this shows that spanking doesn't always have negative outcomes. And if a parent resorts to punching and kicking, that would fall under abuse. Its actually dumb they listed that a risk, like wtf. Also most parents are not spanking their year old infant. Unless I missed it where does it say "spanking causes irreparable damage to most children"? A spanking every now and then is not going to cause major damage.

Now if a parent is constantly spanking their child over any and everything, that is an issue.

- - - Updated - - -

As if being systematically abused and beaten for your formative years causing damage needs to have a source linked...

Thanks!

Not the same thing as being spanked.

[Kithelle]

Better kids, why? Because you stuck to your own business and were "seen, not heard"? Because you didn't want to be hit again? I don't physically punish my children and all four of them are amazing.

Maybe your generation behaved better as children, but the simple fact that you think it's okay to "beat" children tells me that you aren't half the adult any one of my daughters will be.

- - - Updated - - -



I'm not sure you're going to find someone who will tell you that spanking isn't effective in preventing a child from doing something you don't want them to do. The fact is that it causes irreparable damage to most children and especially those with predispositions.

You make it sound like a spanking involves striking a child till their behind is cherry red and bleeding...I've seen all of these alternative punishments...it doesn't stop my niece from being a spoiled little brat and pushing it to the very limit without actually getting in trouble.

[Bapestar]

Why don't you finish quoting the passage you cherry picked that sentence from?



Not a single person here is arguing that spanking ALWAYS has negative outcomes but is far more likely to result in negative outcomes and long term negative effects.

Because it's not relevant, noone is arguing that spanking has long-term positive effects.

[Flevor]

so they never hit you except for when they did.

it does not work in my opinion, and yes i have 2 children, it is hard as hell to maintain your patience in certain occasions but hitting them will only result in breeding fear.
i do not want my children to fear me, i'll take the hard route and figure out which method that does not involve hitting them works.

to each their own but I am very much opposed to it.

well i have NEVER feared my parents ever,i love them still as much as i did as a kid or even more,i just a a faul mouth as a kid and thanks to my mom giving me an occasionally smack on my mouth/cheek it was not hard at all,but it learned me when to shut up in certain situations

now as an adult i never shut up,people can know my opinions

[Arunu]

well i have NEVER feared my parents ever,i love them still as much as i did as a kid or even more,i just a a faul mouth as a kid and thanks to my mom giving me an occasionally smack on my mouth/cheek it was not hard at all,but it learned me when to shut up in certain situations

now as an adult i never shut up,people can know my opinions

i understand, i was slapped/hit a lot too, it did shut me up mostly due to me not wanting to be hit again.
NOT because i understood or agreed with why they hit me. and that's where the crux lies in my opinion.

if you wan't to truly make them understand a slap won't help much. only a quick fix.
raising kids is hard enough as it is though, so i will not presume to know all. like most parents i do my best, it is hardest to maintain patience when you are dead tired etc.

[OnlineSamantha]

From the article:
"some studies have found no relation between physical punishment and negative outcomes, and others have found the relation to be moderated by other factors"

"Another large Canadian study41 found that children who were spanked by their parents were seven times more likely to be severely assaulted by their parents (e.g., punched or kicked) than children who were not spanked. In an American study, infants in their first year of life who had been spanked by their parents in the previous month were 2.3 times more likely to suffer an injury requiring medical attention than infants"

So this shows that spanking doesn't always have negative outcomes. And if a parent resorts to punching and kicking, that would fall under abuse. Its actually dumb they listed that a risk, like wtf. Also most parents are not spanking their year old infant. Unless I missed it where does it say "spanking causes irreparable damage to most children"? A spanking every now and then is not going to cause major damage.

Don't cherrypick the article please.

As recently as 20 years ago, the physical punishment of children was generally accepted worldwide and was considered an appropriate method of eliciting behavioural compliance that was conceptually distinct from physical abuse. However, this perspective began to change as studies found links between “normative” physical punishment and child aggression, delinquency and spousal assault in later life. Some of these studies involved large representative samples from the United States; some studies controlled for potential confounders, such as parental stress and socioeconomic status; and some studies examined the potential of parental reasoning to moderate the association between physical punishment and child aggression. Virtually without exception, these studies found that physical punishment was associated with higher levels of aggression against parents, siblings, peers and spouses.
But were physical punishment and childhood aggression statistically associated because more aggressive children elicit higher levels of physical punishment? Although this was a possibility, research was beginning to show that physical punishment elicits aggression. Early experiments had shown that pain elicits reflexive aggression. In an early modeling study, boys in grade one who had watched a one-minute video of a boy being yelled at, shaken and spanked with a paddle for misbehaving showed more aggression while playing with dolls than boys who had watched a one-minute video of nonviolent responses to misbehaviour. In a treatment study, Forgatch showed that a reduction in harsh discipline used by parents of boys at risk for antisocial behaviour was followed by significant reductions in their children’s aggression. These and other findings spurred researchers to identify the mechanisms linking physical punishment and child aggression.

I would argue that things higher aggression, delinquency and spausal assault fall under "irreparable damage". It's prevalent throughout the entire article, and they are very much talking about "corporal punishment" and not just beating your children, as seems to be your primary defense. They are studying the effects of doing it "correctly".