Traditional raid tier sets will be removed with BfA

[shaunika123]

So....you *could* get your BIS from the mythic+ then, as it could be equivalent item level to a mythic raid item? What's with people saying mythic raids will be the *only* source of BIS suddenly because of this change/azerite gear? As far as I can see, the overall 'system' remains basically unchanged...except now you will be using non-tier (you'll still have a boss which drops your BIS helm, just like the boss now drops the tier token for a helm)

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And azerite helm/shoulders/chest can only drop in raids? There will be no helms/chests/shoulders in mythic+? That is what people seem to be saying because they're saying 'well, now your BIS will always come from raids', and I'm not seeing how?

I think his point is that, basically any "real" loot from mythic+ is titanforged by design, since that's how it jumps higher the better keys you do.

so if they keep the system the exact same way, then you'll only be able to get the highest possible mythic+ ilvl (which is now 915 compared to 930 from raids) as azerite pieces.

of course this implies that it'Ll be left exactly the same and blizzard wont make high enough mythic+ be able to reward proper azerite pieces, which I'd doubt

Lots of Blizzard zombies out tonight mindlessly defending Blizzard's drivel. Personally, I find it fascinating.

Lots of anti-blizzard zombies out tonight mindlessly attacking blizzard. Personally I find it fascinating.

see, it can work both ways.

if you don't like the system, then constructively tell blizzard why you don't like it, and if enough of you do that, they'Ll listen, as they always have.

It sucks to be in the minority I know, cos I'm usually in it, in fact I'm completely on the fence about this idea, but i'm not so blind as to not see that it has very clear upsides as well.

in fact, with legendaries being gone, i dont really see how making a 6 piece set that didnt have azerite pieces included (IE: cloak gloves pants boots bracers belt) would restrict people that much, But hey, no more being forced into bad stat budgeted items just for the bonus, no more "oh shit I got a TF chest in my weekly chest but i cant equip it cos of the set" etc. there are a lot of positive stuff in it.

[Thorim]

Except you're more likely to have your BiS pieces come from dungeons over raids because there's just MORE loot that comes from dungeons. Your more likely to get better itemized gear with the right talent from M+.

That's what I'm saying! Everyone else is going 'no now your BIS will always be from a mythic raid!' a few pages back...that's the original comment I was replying to because I didn't understand why they thought that.

[Onikaroshi]

We have no idea if the mythic+ weekly chest is carrying over. We have no idea if azerite gear only comes from raids. We have no idea if mythic+ is even going to scale the same way.

So, from the info we have now, we can say our BiS comes from raids. Until they give any other information that’s all we know.

They've said they were changing raids, they've said M+ was staying "with improvements". Removing the chest is not an "improvement". So until they say otherwise it is safer to assume that mythic+ will being staying equal in ilvl to raids just like it is now. They would be STUPID to lower the ilvl for M+, it's their new baby, it's going to get everything and more.

[Taeldorian]

better yet it won't even be 1% with the weekly chest giving guaranteed mythic level drop, the difference is 0%.

and your dedication in defending blizz is touching

I’m not defending blizz. It’ll look that way to you of course because you like to throw out random numbers without any basis at all.

I asked you to show me how the gear will only be a 1% increase. What did you do to get that #? You still haven’t shown me how you got that number.

So not only are you pulling random numbers out of your ass, your throwing out insults because you have no idea where you got that number from and insulting me is easier.

Way to go dude.

[Thorim]

We have no idea if the mythic+ weekly chest is carrying over. We have no idea if azerite gear only comes from raids. We have no idea if mythic+ is even going to scale the same way.

So, from the info we have now, we can say our BiS comes from raids. Until they give any other information that’s all we know.

How does that assumption make sense, especially without set bonuses? Right now without set bonuses most of peoples BIS would be a hodge-podge of mythic+ gear.

[Aaronioslo]

I think his point is that, basically any "real" loot from mythic+ is titanforged by design, since that's how it jumps higher the better keys you do.

so if they keep the system the exact same way, then you'll only be able to get the highest possible mythic+ ilvl (which is now 915 compared to 930 from raids) as azerite pieces.

of course this implies that it'Ll be left exactly the same and blizzard wont make high enough mythic+ be able to reward proper azerite pieces, which I'd doubt

even if they don't. 15 lvl hardly justifies the effort for raiding

[Onikaroshi]

That's what I'm saying! Everyone else is going 'no now your BIS will always be from a mythic raid!' a few pages back...that's the original comment I was replying to because I didn't understand why they thought that.

Because they're assuming M+ changes that probably aren't happening, they're not going to lower the ilvl of loot you get from M+.

[Roccatex]

I think his point is that, basically any "real" loot from mythic+ is titanforged by design, since that's how it jumps higher the better keys you do.

so if they keep the system the exact same way, then you'll only be able to get the highest possible mythic+ ilvl (which is now 915 compared to 930 from raids) as azerite pieces.

of course this implies that it'Ll be left exactly the same and blizzard wont make high enough mythic+ be able to reward proper azerite pieces, which I'd doubt

Well, I think the weekly chest could be amazing to balance that out. So you can't just spam it, but you can decently gear+ the rest of the gear can still titanforge.

[Twilight Cultist]

set bonuses should be better then. Why remove them instead?

That isn't why they are removing them. Set bonuses essentially locked those slots for you. In Legion, we have 4 tier pieces and 2 legendary slots that basically can't be replaced. So they are trying to address that problem by removing as many dead slots as possible.

[Taeldorian]

They've said they were changing raids, they've said M+ was staying "with improvements". Removing the chest is not an "improvement". So until they say otherwise it is safer to assume that mythic+ will being staying equal in ilvl to raids just like it is now. They would be STUPID to lower the ilvl for M+, it's their new baby, it's going to get everything and more.

What if azerite armor only comes from raids? This is theoretical though, nothing to talk about now.

As it stands right now, the highest ilvl we can get from mythic+ dungeons is 915 compared to the 930-940 we get from mythic. Sure, you could get a 935 from the chest, but that’s all luck. Raids would still be the better way to go no?

[Thorim]

Because they're assuming M+ changes that probably aren't happening, they're not going to lower the ilvl of loot you get from M+.

So it is pretty safe to presume that all things being equal to now, with removed raid set bonuses, that running high mythic+ keys over and over will be the source of BIS gear...that is my takeaway from it anyway.

[arandomuser]

This is obviously for the mythic plus crowd it seems like blizzard is giving up on traditional raiding and wanting everyone to focus on M+ and this allows them to balance it easier, cant say im happy at all

[Niwes]

I'm sorry but in what way does TF affect normal/HC raiders negatively? all they can do is benefit from it.

and it's not like we have programs and websites that TELL you which gear is the best for you in like 3 minutes. so yeah that shouldnt really be a struggle.

it also helps alts a lot, since the lower content you do the more potential reward it has.


the only people this really "hurts", are mythic raiders, but even then it's a glass half empty glass half full situation "well boss first kills arent as rewarding anymore, but refarming bosses is more rewarding"

does it suck that on our 2nd KJ mythic kill only 2 loots were actual upgrades (one of which being a 955 TF roll)? yes
is it great that even after 6(?) months goroth can still drop upgrades? yes

dont know what class you are playing and if you live in a „itemlevel > all“ heaven. dont know if you ever have really tried to min/max a bit in this xpac at all.

however, i play shaman.

- you can go to https://www.stormearthandlava.com/ele/artifact and look at the graphs.
- then you can look at Legendary item combos and tell me, i.e. as ENH, what is better: aikanus combo or ...
- after that you can go to AMR (without premium) and tell me: 4pc, 2pc, or all my high WF/TF items?
- after that, you sim all that stuff, to validate/test.

if you can give me accurate proofable answers, in 3 minutes, you are really my hero.

good luck.

[Thorim]

I think his point is that, basically any "real" loot from mythic+ is titanforged by design, since that's how it jumps higher the better keys you do.

so if they keep the system the exact same way, then you'll only be able to get the highest possible mythic+ ilvl (which is now 915 compared to 930 from raids) as azerite pieces.

of course this implies that it'Ll be left exactly the same and blizzard wont make high enough mythic+ be able to reward proper azerite pieces, which I'd doubt




Lots of anti-blizzard zombies out tonight mindlessly attacking blizzard. Personally I find it fascinating.

see, it can work both ways.

if you don't like the system, then constructively tell blizzard why you don't like it, and if enough of you do that, they'Ll listen, as they always have.

It sucks to be in the minority I know, cos I'm usually in it, in fact I'm completely on the fence about this idea, but i'm not so blind as to not see that it has very clear upsides as well.

Where have they said that mythic+ loot will be lower item level than raid loot? Or that it wont be able to titanforge? Right now the only thing keeping mythic raid gear BIS is the set bonus - without it you would just run high mythic keys over and over to get super titanforged off-set pieces due to better itemisation.

[Aaronioslo]

That isn't why they are removing them. Set bonuses essentially locked those slots for you. In Legion, we have 4 tier pieces and 2 legendary slots that basically can't be replaced. So they are trying to address that problem by removing as many dead slots as possible.

which haven't locked you for more than a decade suddenly is a problem now, they are simply taking the lazy route after the shitstorm of balancing this expansion. and fanboies are out defending them, what a surprise.

[Emerald Archer]

2 tier piece from last tier 4 tier piece from current tier, 2 legendaries, 2 weapon slot

wait 10? do you count trinkets? or what?

2 legendaries 4 set items, even if both legendaries take up set item slots that's 6 slots locked, what are the other 4?

2 Legendaries, 6 set items, arcano and new arcano. I was the original poster of that Shaunika, not that guy btw, and i'm not including weapon slots.

[Thorim]

Because , as it is stated, the items can have stuff comparable to a set bonus. If you read the last sentence.

What items? Raid only items will have stuff comparable to set bonuses? Or do you mean the azerite gear? If you do then you're saying that only raids will drop these pieces?

[huehuehue]

Showing off gear died the day transmog was added. I love transmog but that's the reality.

I agree with that for the most part, Mythic tier has been eye catching the last two expansions though. But to go as far as what that guy was claiming just isn't true.

[Onikaroshi]

What if azerite armor only comes from raids? This is theoretical though, nothing to talk about now.

As it stands right now, the highest ilvl we can get from mythic+ dungeons is 915 compared to the 930-940 we get from mythic. Sure, you could get a 935 from the chest, but that’s all luck. Raids would still be the better way to go no?

You're guaranteed a 930 once a week though, and that's where the issue comes from with it, it doesn't even keep mythic safe from the system the way they're currently leaving it.

They should have waited til they had more info to give.

[Roccatex]

M+ items could have good AoE Traits on Azerite gear, while raid items could've the usual set bonus effects. Quest items could have the usual "If you kill an Enemy that rewards Exp or Honor" stuff.