Attention people wanting drastic changes to Vanilla

[Mercane]

That's what this post is. And don't delude yourself thinking Blizz isn't reading threads here. They already confirmed that they gather feedback from here, Wowhead, and Reddit just as well as the official forums and they read them, quote, "especially after Blizzcon".

I think it's more than fair to assume they stopped reading after the second sentence of your first post.

[Mormolyce]

That's what this post is. And don't delude yourself thinking Blizz isn't reading threads here. They already confirmed that they gather feedback from here, Wowhead, and Reddit just as well as the official forums and they read them, quote, "especially after Blizzcon".

No, this is screaming at each other.

[Hitei]

However, it it more honest than the complete deception which is transmogged gear in pvp. Outside of pvp many people enjoyed simply seeing someone kitted out in powerful armour in Ironforge. It meant something to the community aspect of WoW for appearance to be less under the player's control. Only the most successful raiders had anything resembling aesthetically pleasing armour and that is how it should be kept.

It's not a fashion simulator. Seeing someone with a coherent set of gear stood out in a good way from the crowd of clown suits. If you bring in transmog they won't stand out as much and it devalues their effort.

It really isn't. Gear (read: shoulders chest and helm, becuase that is the majority of what you see, especially if someone is mounted) is a very minor indicator of total gear, and a non-indicator of skill, which is particularly important in a game version where you can completely lock down someone if you are much better than they are (lol dead zones).

"People enjoyed fashion shows"
"It's not a fashion simulator"

Good one.

If people want to wear full sets they can wear the full sets they've earned. I don't see any reason to not let people switch into worse gear. Full Paladin T1 is not pleasing, it is awful looking. Nor is seeing everyone walk around in the exact same BIS gear something great for the game.

[Jtbrig7390]

You have never called it classic otherwise you would have provided a source. .

Feel free to look at my post history.

Also you made the original claim and in adult discussions when you make a claim you got to back it up with proof. Seeing how you clearly can't do that then talking to you is pointless. Even more so after this childish rant you just had.

[Deleted]

A few points you don't seem to understand.

1) Not all people who played Classic want it to be 1:1 with the original.
2) Classic Servers are NOT only being made for people who played it back in the day. There is many who wish to experience there own little version of it.

If classic was being made so only those who was there could get to play it then it would only let those accounts log in.

So people wants to have Vanilla with specific features.

That is retail game you are asking for(you can also call it expansion). You can go sck it(or just play Legion and go enjoy older stuff, if thats something you hold dear).

Nothing personal, but you know that you can't defend sh!t like that.

[arkanon]

Ok people really try your best to get this through your heads. They are not tailor making a NEW EXPANSION to make people who enjoyed vanilla happy. they are providing the vanilla experience, in all its glory.

again. Wow:Classic is not a new expansion, so everyone needs to stop demanding expansion type features, and most of all, everyone like op needs to calm down and stop claiming to know things that they have no clue about.

[Deleted]

It really isn't. Gear (read: shoulders chest and helm, becuase that is the majority of what you see, especially if someone is mounted) is a very minor indicator of total gear, and a non-indicator of skill, which is particularly important in a game version where you can completely lock down someone if you are much better than they are (lol dead zones).

Visible gear is a major indicator of total gear in Vanilla. If someone had a t3 helm, shoulders and chest you would not want to fuck with them because it's unlikely that the rest of their gear is greens. Gear being a non-indicator of skill is irrelevant, no-one is arguing that it is.

"People enjoyed fashion shows"
"It's not a fashion simulator"

Good one.

It's not a fashion show, people enjoyed being able to identify player power by simply looking at another character. The gear doesn't have to be aesthetic it needs to mean something and stand out from the clown suits.

If people want to wear full sets they can wear the full sets they've earned. I don't see any reason to not let people switch into worse gear. Full Paladin T1 is not pleasing, it is awful looking. Nor is seeing everyone walk around in the exact same BIS gear something great for the game.

You are absolutely free to switch into more aesthetically pleasing gear. You may or may not have to sacrifice player power to do this. Not everyone will be walking around in the exact same BIS gear if classic is anything like Vanilla, as only a tiny % of the player base had the best gear.

[Gandrake]

Dual Spec and Transmog I think are OK but yes it would be nice to keep classic very classic

[arkanon]

No you haven't. You have never called it classic otherwise you would have provided a source. Nothing ironic about it. You are wrong, I am not. I get it. This forum is your life and you place some sort of social value on what you perceive others think of you. Admitting that you're wrong is difficult to do because you think it will damage your standing within the community.

Or maybe people just see you like this:
Jtbrig7390: Someone said I am wrong on the Internet, kitty. I am so angry.
Kitty: Meow
Jtbrig7390: I don't care if I am wrong kitty, I am just going to commit what I said no matter how wrong i am.
Kitty: Meow
Jtbrig7390: No kitty. I am not being stubborn, I can't let others see me admit being wrong.
Kitty: Meow
Jtbrig7390: You're not my Mom, kitty. I do not need to put pants on.

What a stupid and childish post. Clearly you never played WoW : Classic when it was first released. im guessing you were still in primary school.

[Shadowbane]

I want Vanilla without the limitations of a shitty 2004 engine.

You don't get to decide what Vanilla is. If you think new models make a game NOT Vanilla then you're as smart as a cheerleader.

Vanilla is all about the community, working hard for raids, guild cohesion and getting 40 people on the same page, each class having a well defined role, epics meaning something and buffs/consumables being important.

Anything else-- achievements, summoning stones, dual spec changes nothing about what I just listed.

There's something a little hypocritical there about telling someone they don't get to decide what Vanilla is, and then decide what Vanilla is.

Vanilla was a whole bunch of things - all those things you mentioned, and other things too. Classes had a well defined role - often their one and only role. Buffs and consumables were important is another way of saying we were forced to grind for days to have what we would consume on a single raid night if we wanted to do it. It was terrible itemization like wearing lv50 mail bracers as a lv60 warrior because it gave bonus to weapon skills, having to acquire elemental resistance gear even if the other stats sucked, a painfully long leveling grind, mounts costing 1000g and the training costing 100g, bugs galore, and server crashes for days. That's how I remember it, at least.

I agree that there are more important things to think about though. Naturally bugs should go and server issues problem won't be as frequent a thing. Battle.net integration is something some players are going to be for, or against. Whilst it doesn't change anything about the way the game is, I think it'd be better to hearken back to the old days by going without it. Classic WoW means different things to different people because we all played it in our own way.

Personally, I want those 2004 limitations back. If the point is to have a classic version of the game as it was, having a version of the game that never existed - with features it didn't have at the time, doing anything beyond bug fixes goes against that. It probably isn't going to happen even if players ask for it.

[Echocho]

- Should certain bugs be left in (looting anim bug) or squash them all?
Depends on how much they affect gameplay. Classic should try to mirror the Vanilla gameplay as much as possible. Don't take my moon walk!

So they should add bugs to the new client on purpose? What self respecting developer would do that?

[time0ut]

So they should add bugs to the new client on purpose? What self respecting developer would do that?

The question was if they should be left in. If they use a new client that doesn't have them to begin with, then that is a different question.

[pateuvasiliu]

There's something a little hypocritical there about telling someone they don't get to decide what Vanilla is, and then decide what Vanilla is.

Vanilla was a whole bunch of things - all those things you mentioned, and other things too. Classes had a well defined role - often their one and only role. Buffs and consumables were important is another way of saying we were forced to grind for days to have what we would consume on a single raid night if we wanted to do it. It was terrible itemization like wearing lv50 mail bracers as a lv60 warrior because it gave bonus to weapon skills, having to acquire elemental resistance gear even if the other stats sucked, a painfully long leveling grind, mounts costing 1000g and the training costing 100g, bugs galore, and server crashes for days. That's how I remember it, at least.

I agree that there are more important things to think about though. Naturally bugs should go and server issues problem won't be as frequent a thing. Battle.net integration is something some players are going to be for, or against. Whilst it doesn't change anything about the way the game is, I think it'd be better to hearken back to the old days by going without it. Classic WoW means different things to different people because we all played it in our own way.

Personally, I want those 2004 limitations back. If the point is to have a classic version of the game as it was, having a version of the game that never existed - with features it didn't have at the time, doing anything beyond bug fixes goes against that. It probably isn't going to happen even if players ask for it.

What's wrong with resist gear? I think having specialised gear for fire bosses is as RPG as MMO RPG gets.

What's wrong with consumables? You could clear raids without them but they made your life easier. If you're lazy find a lazy guild and if you're ALL good you can clear some raids without consumes.

Levelling isn't that bad. I got to 60 in 9 days of /played time but most experienced players can get there in 6.

Crashes won't be a thing due to the hardware obviously.

having a version of the game that never existed - with features it didn't have at the time, doing anything beyond bug fixes goes against that

I don't see any logic in wanting Vanilla but complaining about new models. They don't change anything except make the game not look like shit.

[Coffeexbean]

We see your post history. We see how many of you never even talked about Legacy servers before the announcement. We see how you stayed silent in the aftermath of the Nost shutdown. We see how you laughed/mocked at the Vanilla advocates that flooded the forums.

And now you Towellie fanbois are acting like you are vaguely interested in Classic realms. You're certainly a noisy group, but let's make a few things clear. Understand the following facts:

LFR will not be added to Classic Realms.
LFG will not be added to Classic Realms.
Dual Spec will not be added to Classic Realms.
Mount tabs will not be added to Classic Realms.
Pet Battles will not be added to Classic Realms.
New character models will not be added to Classic Realms.
Transmog will not be added to Classic Realms.
Achievements will not be added to Classic Realms.
Flying will not be added to Classic Realms.

If you disagree with the above, well, then, your opinion does not matter, because you've already proven yourself to be either a liar (who says they want Vanilla) or a hypocrite (who would mock someone for suggesting they remove one of the above from retail). In either case, your opinion matters about as much as SquareSoft recommending changes to Guild Wars 2. No one cares.

Now; here's where your opinion does matter:

- Should all classes/specs be balanced + viable?
- Should certain early BC changes be added (Debuff limit increased from 8 -> 40)?
- Should content be released incrementally or all at once?
- Should certain bugs be left in (looting anim bug) or squash them all?

These are the types of questions you should be discussing. Not whether we should be having Pet Battles in.

I agree with you on some points that are gameplay changing but shit like mount tabs is not that big of a deal. if you want to make the argument for bag space then thats different

[Deleted]

we see your post history. We see how many of you never even talked about legacy servers before the announcement. We see how you stayed silent in the aftermath of the nost shutdown. We see how you laughed/mocked at the vanilla advocates that flooded the forums.

And now you towellie fanbois are acting like you are vaguely interested in classic realms. You're certainly a noisy group, but let's make a few things clear. understand the following facts:

lfr will not be added to classic realms.
Lfg will not be added to classic realms.
Dual spec will not be added to classic realms.
Mount tabs will not be added to classic realms.
Pet battles will not be added to classic realms.
New character models will not be added to classic realms.
Transmog will not be added to classic realms.
Achievements will not be added to classic realms.
Flying will not be added to classic realms.

If you disagree with the above, well, then, your opinion does not matter, because you've already proven yourself to be either a liar (who says they want vanilla) or a hypocrite (who would mock someone for suggesting they remove one of the above from retail). In either case, your opinion matters about as much as squaresoft recommending changes to guild wars 2. no one cares.

now; here's where your opinion does matter:

- should all classes/specs be balanced + viable?
- should certain early bc changes be added (debuff limit increased from 8 -> 40)?
- should content be released incrementally or all at once?
- should certain bugs be left in (looting anim bug) or squash them all?

These are the types of questions you should be discussing. Not whether we should be having pet battles in.

oh for fucks sake

[MoanaLisa]

Yet another vanilla thread.

Well, it is the vanilla/classic forum after all although I agree the repetition is getting out of hand a bit.

As to the topic itself, I'm OK with Blizzard keeping it as close to what Vanilla was as possible. I'm also OK with people walking away from it.

Games over 10 years old have their own dedicated group of fans and that's great. Now is the time to weigh in with sensible ideas but most of what I've seen isn't sensible.

What few changes I'm expecting to see will be stuff like connecting it all to battle.net. One way or another that will happen. They've done it for their other classic games, it's just a different battle.net. So that will be there. Mount tabs? I don't see how having your stuff organized is such a bad thing but it's not necessary either. The main thing will be what happens when you start out in whatever starting zone you're in and after.

The game may look its age and it may not. For me, speaking personally here and for no one else, that's not that big of a deal either way. After a couple of hours it's unlikely that most people will be noticing it.

I think the things that are actually important are those judgment calls about differences that will stay annoying after the first day or so. That's a tough call. But I'm very much on the side that they should change as little as possible when it comes to how play and class mechanics work. And that means, leaving it as it was.

People would do well to not go embarrassingly apeshit over very minor cosmetic and organizational things.

[Jtbrig7390]

Well, it is the vanilla/classic forum after all although I agree the repetition is getting out of hand a bit.

As to the topic itself, I'm OK with Blizzard keeping it as close to what Vanilla was as possible. I'm also OK with people walking away from it.

Games over 10 years old have their own dedicated group of fans and that's great. Now is the time to weigh in with sensible ideas but most of what I've seen isn't sensible.

What few changes I'm expecting to see will be stuff like connecting it all to battle.net. One way or another that will happen. They've done it for their other classic games, it's just a different battle.net. So that will be there. Mount tabs? I don't see how having your stuff organized is such a bad thing but it's not necessary either. The main thing will be what happens when you start out in whatever starting zone you're in and after.

The game may look its age and it may not. For me, speaking personally here and for no one else, that's not that big of a deal either way. After a couple of hours it's unlikely that most people will be noticing it.

I think the things that are actually important are those judgment calls about differences that will stay annoying after the first day or so. That's a tough call. But I'm very much on the side that they should change as little as possible when it comes to how play and class mechanics work. And that means, leaving it as it was.

People would do well to not go embarrassingly apeshit over very minor cosmetic and organizational things.

Well said and personally imo Blizzard should handled Classic servers the same way Jagex handles Old School Runescape. Let the majority speak and decide what changes happen and what don't.

[Delana]

We are noisy? You're the ones who were salivating and howling at Blizz like a pack of horny dogs to get vanilla servers.

Since you're in view to get it, we have the right to give our opinions on it too, since we are the same playerbase. Some people who're mostly indifferent might have a mild interest in playing classic servers, with a few caveats. We have every right to voice them. And to my perception the Purists are a tiresome bunch to listen to. Very tiresome.

The devs aren't making these servers exclusively for you, get over it. They asked for feedback, they're getting it. From both sides. Get over it.

You don't know shit about what'll be added or not until they tell you what.

Why don't you just play live then? Genuinely curious. LFD and the subsequent collapse of the community ruined the game for me. Assuming it didn't for you, why not just keep on with live?

[Halyon]

Why don't you just play live then? Genuinely curious. LFD and the subsequent collapse of the community ruined the game for me. Assuming it didn't for you, why not just keep on with live?

I do. But I have a passing interest to play vanilla again (properly), see if it's all it's hyped up to be. But from what I do remember, it wasn't and won't be, there were problems with it that I think could benefit the game by being fixed. Mostly the class imbalances. Some classes/specs were plain unplayable if you wanted to not have wasted ages leveling and getting gear.

I can play both if I want to.

[bash the fash]

As a person who played classic more than pretty much any other video game I've ever played, I recognize and in fact am quite vociferous about how it was a pretty awful game in some respects. A lot of respects, really. Playing classic was frustrating, tedious, and irritating.

That said, if you're going to have classic realms, there's no point in changing very much. The only things I'd really endorse would be
-changing the honor system. Vanilla had a lot of awful grinds. The honor system was the only one that REQUIRED gaming the system, or literally spending weeks nonstop of your life, in order to advance into the high ranks. You did all that.. for pretty subpar gear, compared to a clear of BWL (which by the end of classic wasn't really that difficult with a guild).
-The debuff slot thing was a stupid technical limitation that ought to be done away with. Let classes use their abilities.