Paid health care is literally insane.

[Deleted]

For all those saying "I don't care about other people, why should I pay for their health issues." I'll just quote one of my favourite lines from a movie :

"Henry Carpenter: Violence isn't the worst thing in the world.

Susan Carpenter: What is then?

Henry Carpenter: Apathy. " - The Book of Henry 2017

[IIamaKing]

what a tired game, literally everyone knows that when a person says free healthcare, they mean taxpayer funded healthcare.

You might be surprised. I have spoken with more than a few people who think the government just shits out money, no understanding at ALL of where their funds come from or what taxes do.

The term Tax payer funded, would be the best term for clarity. Single payer obfuscates who is paying as well.

[oleander89]

Actually, I just demonstrated how thats the case. Prior to DC v. Heller, there was no individual right to bear arms outside of military service. This is indisputable. Justice Scalia, on of the most conservative judges to ever sit on the court, wrote the opinion. I agree that Scalia's originalism was brought out when he wanted, and hid away when it contradicted something he wanted to get done. Regardless, of what you think, this is a fact. It happened in 2008.

Nonetheless, I'd have you look up the definitions of Jurisprudence Constante and Stare Decisis. "Activist" judges is another bullshit phrase someone fed you. It's meaningless actually. Judges often have passed law from the bench. The supreme court, from its inception until this very day still do it. It is made to do it. Only then to either have their opinions codified into law, or to have a law written to explicitly change what the judge ruled. This is literally how the Judiciary and the Legislative Branches of government work. They check and balance. Goddamn, this is high school level shit.

If this is what you learned in public high school, then that should be exhibit A of why giving the government control is a bad thing.

You claim that there was no individual right to bear arms. Can you show me the case where this was the ruling? Or was what just never necessary because the individual's right was common sense. The 2008 ruling affirmed an individual's right to bear arms. It did not overturn it. For someone who has accused me of being a liar several times, you argue very dishonestly.

Considering the American revolution happened because farmers with guns took up arms against government forces, I highly doubt the founding fathers intentions were to limit gun ownership to military service.

[Macaquerie]

You might be surprised. I have spoken with more than a few people who think the government just shits out money, no understanding at ALL of where their funds come from or what taxes do.

The term Tax payer funded, would be the best term for clarity. Single payer obfuscates who is paying as well.

Yeah, but those people are usually the "get your dirty government hands out of my Medicare" crowd. And besides, you could argue that the term "taxpayer" is politically loaded as well because it seems to imply that there are people out there who don't pay taxes, which is who exactly? The fact that some people don't make enough to pay income tax is irrelevant, because a national single payer system would have to be funded by a payroll tax which pretty much everyone would have to pay.

[Orlong]

yeah, i wish my grandmother would have had the personal responsibility to not get cancer. What a fucking bitch she was! Oh, and my other grandmother, and both my grandfathers. And 1 out of every 2 men. 1 out of every 3 women. Will get cancer.

I guess it was my lack of personal responsibility that I got a brain tumor when i was 22, in peak physical condition when I was in the army. I guess it was my moms fault when she got kidney stones. Or maybe it was my sisters fault when she gave birth that there would be complications that would effect her the rest of her life. Or maybe its my sisters fault that she was born with a hole in her heart.

Or maybe...just maybe, you literally don't have a fucking clue what youre talking about with "personal responsibility"

This is, by far, the dumbest thing a person can say about illness. Those same grandparents smoked every day for 30+ years, lived to 90+, all of them. Their cancers were wholly unrelated to cigarettes. So, don't give me this nonsense about personal responsibility. Some people treat their bodies like a dumpster, and live to 100. Others are in peak physical condition and have heart attacks. It can and does happen to anyone.

None of this makes any sense. How can a person be so colossally stupid? Everyone gets sick. Some worse than others. Some WAY worse than others. And none of it, has anything to do with fucking personal responsibility. I knew guys I served with, in even better shape than I, who had serious heart conditions, blood pressure problems. 25 year old athletes, running marathons, they get Chrons disease. Another Army buddy, 28, Army Ranger...testicular cancer. Thank goodness he had his Tricare. OH SHIT, TRICARE. That goddamn socialized medicine...shall we strip that from the troops?

I cannot believe how stupid this is. Personal responsibility. What a fucking joke. Americans, of which I am a part, are so dumb. Goddamnit.

I was talking about having personal responsibility to live within your means so you can afford health insurance. Then you wouldnt pay for cancer or tumor treatments

[Eurytos]

I was talking about having personal responsibility to live within your means so you can afford health insurance. Then you wouldnt pay for cancer or tumor treatments

Bro, how much money do you think people make? Do you understand how much insurance costs? My sister, literally the most frugal person I know, paid off all her school debt in only a few years after college, owns her own home now, works tirelessly as a private school school teacher, tutors after hours to make ends meet, still cannot afford health insurance. Her work doesn't provide anything. The obamacare penalty is cheaper for her to pay than a premium....as long as she stays healthy.

There are people who work multiple jobs and make less money than my sister who also can't afford insurance. These people work hard, it can still be to expensive for them. Many of them can get medicaid, many live in states that didn't expand medicaid. Others make too much to qualify for medicaid, but not really enough to pay a premium. Cmon man.

[oleander89]

Bro, how much money do you think people make? Do you understand how much insurance costs? My sister, literally the most frugal person I know, paid off all her school debt in only a few years after college, owns her own home now, works tirelessly as a private school school teacher, tutors after hours to make ends meet, still cannot afford health insurance. Her work doesn't provide anything. The obamacare penalty is cheaper for her to pay than a premium....as long as she stays healthy.

There are people who work multiple jobs and make less money than my sister who also can't afford insurance. These people work hard, it can still be to expensive for them. Many of them can get medicaid, many live in states that didn't expand medicaid. Others make too much to qualify for medicaid, but not really enough to pay a premium. Cmon man.

She should probably look into getting another job that does provide benefits then. Nearly every full time job in America does.

[Eurytos]

If this is what you learned in public high school, then that should be exhibit A of why giving the government control is a bad thing.

You claim that there was no individual right to bear arms. Can you show me the case where this was the ruling? Or was what just never necessary because the individual's right was common sense. The 2008 ruling affirmed an individual's right to bear arms. It did not overturn it. For someone who has accused me of being a liar several times, you argue very dishonestly.

Considering the American revolution happened because farmers with guns took up arms against government forces, I highly doubt the founding fathers intentions were to limit gun ownership to military service.

This is nonsensical. The high school stuff is about checks and balances dude. I didn't expect you to understand what Stare Decisis is or what Jurisprudence Constate is. Thats why I told you to look it up.

Furthermore, I tried to tell you not to be lied to by the folks you listen to who tell you that there are activists judges. All judges can be so-called "activist" judges. Like I said, go look up those definitions. It has been the history of our country since the beginning. This is not an abnormal thing.

I cannot show you a case, because one did not exist prior to DC v Heller. I don't expect you to understand this either, because it is more technical and without a legal education its hard to understand. But basically, without the Supreme Court to interpret the law and apply the Constitution, there is a void of meaning. That's why they exist. Because things are not always clear. And it wasn't clear, and states and cities could pass laws banning personal gun ownership if the so chose. However, it only became unconstitutional in 2008. Prior to 2008, you did not have an individual right to own a gun outside of military service. Thats exactly what Heller said. Sure, folks may have had guns outside of military service, but it wasn't constitutionally protected. In 2008, that changed.

In regards to assault weapons, the point I was making was that in that same case, Scalia also said that you don't have a right to own anything and every thing you want. States can regulate ownership of tanks, and rocket launchers, etc. Constitutionally, you do not have a right to own a tank. The state may give that right or take it away as they see fit. They cannot do so regarding personal firearms...at least not since 2008.

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She should probably look into getting another job that does provide benefits then. Nearly every full time job in America does.

Who the fuck are you to tell my sister what to do with her life? Get the fuck outta here.

[Swizzington]

Defensive about a system that ruins peoples lives with debt? Sheesh.

I am strongly in favor of single-payer healthcare. I think the U.S. system is ludicrous and fundamentally flawed. So... perhaps don't jump to conclusions...

My issue with the OP is it was written in a way that criticized 'Americans' for 'allowing' this system, when in reality the majority support single payer, it's just that - for a multitude of reasons - it hasn't happened yet.

[oleander89]

This is nonsensical. The high school stuff is about checks and balances dude. I didn't expect you to understand what Stare Decisis is or what Jurisprudence Constate is. Thats why I told you to look it up.

Furthermore, I tried to tell you not to be lied to by the folks you listen to who tell you that there are activists judges. All judges can be so-called "activist" judges. Like I said, go look up those definitions. It has been the history of our country since the beginning. This is not an abnormal thing.

I cannot show you a case, because one did not exist prior to DC v Heller. I don't expect you to understand this either, because it is more technical and without a legal education its hard to understand. But basically, without the Supreme Court to interpret the law and apply the Constitution, there is a void of meaning. That's why they exist. Because things are not always clear. And it wasn't clear, and states and cities could pass laws banning personal gun ownership if the so chose. However, it only became unconstitutional in 2008. Prior to 2008, you did not have an individual right to own a gun outside of military service. Thats exactly what Heller said. Sure, folks may have had guns outside of military service, but it wasn't constitutionally protected. In 2008, that changed.

In regards to assault weapons, the point I was making was that in that same case, Scalia also said that you don't have a right to own anything and every thing you want. States can regulate ownership of tanks, and rocket launchers, etc. Constitutionally, you do not have a right to own a tank. The state may give that right or take it away as they see fit. They cannot do so regarding personal firearms...at least not since 2008.

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Who the fuck are you to tell my sister what to do with her life? Get the fuck outta here.

According to you, the Constitution was meaningless until the Supreme Court interprets it section by section. That may be what they teach you in high school, but that is asinine.

Also, I don't care what your sister does. If she wants health insurance, she should get a job that provides it. If she's as hard working as you say she is, it should be no problem. Although I suspect you are full of shit with the whole story.

[Eurytos]

According to you, the Constitution was meaningless until the Supreme Court interprets it section by section. That may be what they teach you in high school, but that is asinine.

Also, I don't care what your sister does. If she wants health insurance, she should get a job that provides it. If she's as hard working as you say she is, it should be no problem. Although I suspect you are full of shit with the whole story.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Without a Supreme Court to interpret the Constitution, its a meaningless document. That's. Why. The. Court. Exists. That's its sole purpose. It's not asinine, its actually the law. Marbury v. Madison. But it wasn't high school where I learned this. It was law school. But I didn't expect you to understand that anyway.

Lol, even if I did make it all up, which I didn't, its not like this is an atypical American story. People actually are teachers. People actually teach not for the money or the benefits, but to help children. In fact, many teachers spend their own money helping their students with school supplies, particularly at public schools. MY sister is fortunate to work at a school that supplies the students with what they need, so she doesn't have to do that extra. Nonetheless, teachers all over are underpaid. But its not just teachers. Lots of folks have jobs that are contract jobs, which means they aren't considered employees, therefore unable to get benefits. Others work for themselves. They run a small business. They may actually provide some benefits for the few employees they have, but they sacrifice their own benefits to help those who work for them. This also happens all over America.

So you can literally go fuck yourself, I don't give a single fuck whether you think I'm making this up or not. You lack any understanding to continue having this discussion, if you can call it that. You don't understand economics, taxes, general civics, anything that has to do with the law, nor do you have any sense of the average american and how they work.

Go stick your head back in that hole you call Fox News, leave the rest of us alone. We will win healthcare as a right for the country despite your opposition, including for you actually. Bye clown.

[oleander89]

That's exactly what I'm saying. Without a Supreme Court to interpret the Constitution, its a meaningless document. That's. Why. The. Court. Exists. That's its sole purpose. It's not asinine, its actually the law. Marbury v. Madison. But it wasn't high school where I learned this. It was law school. But I didn't expect you to understand that anyway.

Lol, even if I did make it all up, which I didn't, its not like this is an atypical American story. People actually are teachers. People actually teach not for the money or the benefits, but to help children. In fact, many teachers spend their own money helping their students with school supplies, particularly at public schools. MY sister is fortunate to work at a school that supplies the students with what they need, so she doesn't have to do that extra. Nonetheless, teachers all over are underpaid. But its not just teachers. Lots of folks have jobs that are contract jobs, which means they aren't considered employees, therefore unable to get benefits. Others work for themselves. They run a small business. They may actually provide some benefits for the few employees they have, but they sacrifice their own benefits to help those who work for them. This also happens all over America.

So you can literally go fuck yourself, I don't give a single fuck whether you think I'm making this up or not. You lack any understanding to continue having this discussion, if you can call it that. You don't understand economics, taxes, general civics, anything that has to do with the law, nor do you have any sense of the average american and how they work.

Go stick your head back in that hole you call Fox News, leave the rest of us alone. We will win healthcare as a right for the country despite your opposition, including for you actually. Bye clown.

Good luck. Keep making up shit on the internet to win arguments.

[Eurytos]

Good luck. Keep making up shit on the internet to win arguments.

Lol, you can literally look these cases up. This shit is actually online. There is detailed discussion about these cases. Oh no, you have to put in effort! Might as well go back to black mirror. Oh to be so naive.

AS far as my sister goes, just think of it as a hypothetical...oh, you still can't defend your position? Feel free to continue to live in ignorance. Must be so nice thinking the world is exactly as you think it is. No way anything could be different than how you think.

[RayenDark]

It's not just the cost but the up charge of fees, services ,etc the entire system needs a fix. Doctors/Hospitals/Medical charge far to much for their services. For a month of my medical treatment ranges anywhere from 36,000 to 50,000 depending on how many times I actually set foot in the building or the supplies they send me. While this is what is charged to the insurance company and not what I pay-it's still ridiculous.

Edited for clarity.

[oleander89]

Lol, you can literally look these cases up. This shit is actually online. There is detailed discussion about these cases. Oh no, you have to put in effort! Might as well go back to black mirror. Oh to be so naive.

AS far as my sister goes, just think of it as a hypothetical...oh, you still can't defend your position? Feel free to continue to live in ignorance. Must be so nice thinking the world is exactly as you think it is. No way anything could be different than how you think.

Ironic that you say "No way anything could be different than how you think." when continually stating highly contested arguments as fact. I'm not saying you are making up cases or legal terms. You have provided a personal anecdote to back up just about every argument you are making. The one anecdote I can believe is that you do have a brain tumor.

[breadisfunny]

why did you make this obvious bait thread?

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I really wonder what definition of need fails to include access to basic health care. If you don't "need" access to healthcare what do you "need"?

it's truckboattruck. try not to take him seriously. your sanity will thank you for it.

[Echoherb]

She should probably look into getting another job that does provide benefits then. Nearly every full time job in America does.

"She should quit her job as a capable teacher and get a better one instead so she can actually afford to pay for health care"

Fuck right off

[Eurytos]

Ironic that you say "No way anything could be different than how you think." when continually stating highly contested arguments as fact. I'm not saying you are making up cases or legal terms. You have provided a personal anecdote to back up just about every argument you are making. The one anecdote I can believe is that you do have a brain tumor.

Like I said, believe they are my personal stories or not. Use them as purely hypotheticals...this shit actually does happen in America. One more thing you can google, stories from actual people about their issues with insurance costs, how it effects them, how they work hard and still can't afford it.

This is actually a problem with the conservative brain, they have difficulty with abstract ideas. They have difficulty with hypotheticals. This is also researched and studied, one more thing to google.

I'm literally telling you not to believe me, to do your own research...and all you can say is that you don't believe me. Lol...expand your mind bro, it takes more than reading fox news comments and watching Hannity. Also, there is another study that shows not only are fox news viewers under informed, that it actually makes you dumber.

Once again, listen carefully...Dont. Take. My Word. For. It.
Do. Your. Own. Research.

In the information age, ignorance is a choice.

[breadisfunny]

if you think its too high then dont buy it.
if enough people do the same then the cost will go down.

you dont NEED health insurance, it isnt a human right or a right of any kind.
its a business

LOL human life isn't a right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0

[Iamanerd]

She should probably look into getting another job that does provide benefits then. Nearly every full time job in America does.

That's blatantly false, a fuckton of jobs don't provide benefits. Get your head out of your ass. I feel fortunate to have a job that provides benefits as many don't.