Paid health care is literally insane.

[Echoherb]

if you think its too high then dont buy it.
if enough people do the same then the cost will go down.

you dont NEED health insurance, it isnt a human right or a right of any kind.
its a business

Yeah fuck poor people, they don't have the right to be healthy.

[oleander89]

That's blatantly false, a fuckton of jobs don't provide benefits. Get your head out of your ass. I feel fortunate to have a job that provides benefits as many don't.

Companies with over 50 employees are required by law to provide health insurance to employees who work over 30 hours. It's highly unlikely that a teacher at a private school cannot get benefits from her job.

[truckboattruck]

Yeah fuck poor people, they don't have the right to be healthy.

no one has a right to be healthy

[Stop Pretending]

no one has a right to be healthy

This comment brought to you by a conservative!

[The Oblivion]

Yeah fuck poor people, they don't have the right to be healthy.

you dont need healthcare to be healthy. its not a right and no one deserves it.

[oleander89]

Like I said, believe they are my personal stories or not. Use them as purely hypotheticals...this shit actually does happen in America. One more thing you can google, stories from actual people about their issues with insurance costs, how it effects them, how they work hard and still can't afford it.

This is actually a problem with the conservative brain, they have difficulty with abstract ideas. They have difficulty with hypotheticals. This is also researched and studied, one more thing to google.

I'm literally telling you not to believe me, to do your own research...and all you can say is that you don't believe me. Lol...expand your mind bro, it takes more than reading fox news comments and watching Hannity. Also, there is another study that shows not only are fox news viewers under informed, that it actually makes you dumber.

Once again, listen carefully...Dont. Take. My Word. For. It.
Do. Your. Own. Research.

In the information age, ignorance is a choice.

I've done my own research. I've worked in healthcare administration. I saw the clusterfuck that goes on in the backend; all the waste and inefficiencies. I also hear from people every day about healthcare costs. I would like to fix the problem as I've stated numerous times. The costs are outrageous, but adding more bureaucracy just might not be the answer. I can imagine hypotheticals (like the completely hypothetical example of your sister), but again, these are outliers and the outliers also tend to get taken care of one way or another.

You're so open minded, have a read at this. It explains problems with healthcare in the US and offers ideas on how to fix it. Expand your mind dudebro.

http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/st296.pdf

[Iamanerd]

Companies with over 50 employees are required by law to provide health insurance to employees who work over 30 hours. It's highly unlikely that a teacher at a private school cannot get benefits from her job.

Depends on school size, but small businesses in general make up a huge portion of the job market.

[oleander89]

Depends on school size, but small businesses in general make up a huge portion of the job market.

And a ton of small businesses still have >50 employees. Many with less than 50 still provide insurance as well. For the position of being a full time teacher, not getting benefits is nearly unheard of.

[Eurytos]

I've done my own research. I've worked in healthcare administration. I saw the clusterfuck that goes on in the backend; all the waste and inefficiencies. I also hear from people every day about healthcare costs. I would like to fix the problem as I've stated numerous times. The costs are outrageous, but adding more bureaucracy just might not be the answer. I can imagine hypotheticals (like the completely hypothetical example of your sister), but again, these are outliers and the outliers also tend to get taken care of one way or another.

You're so open minded, have a read at this. It explains problems with healthcare in the US and offers ideas on how to fix it. Expand your mind dudebro.

http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/st296.pdf

I don't believe you. I think you just made all of that up.

Edit:
I may give it a read, though, considering its from the libertarian point of view, I could make some pretty good guesses as to what it says. Though, when your board had Allen West on it, I'm immediately suspicious of it anyway.

Also, its kind of funny that a group that fancies itself a think tank on economic issues can't keep its own finances in order, and is now defunct. Guess the free market doesn't have much use for libertarian think tanks. (I wonder what that means?) Furthermore, it was funded by Koch brothers, and was exposed as being partially funded by the insurance industry. Also part of groups that were skeptical of global warming.

This is just a preliminary search about the organization behind this study. I may actually read it though, hoping to find something I've never heard before. But here's the thing, there really isn't any new arguments to be made. We have significant data, from all over the world...and I'm pretty sure I know which way that evidence points. But maybe there is something new in there. I won't hold my breath.

[oleander89]

I don't believe you. I think you just made all of that up.

That's fine. Hypothetically though, let's say I did. Can you not imagine this hypothetical? You must be wrong. Go do some research man. Stop reading Salon and watching John Oliver.

[Eurytos]

That's fine. Hypothetically though, let's say I did. Can you not imagine this hypothetical? You must be wrong. Go do some research man. Stop reading Salon and watching John Oliver.

First, John Oliver is probably the most credible voice on television regarding any policy issues, since he has no advertisers to answer to, and generally HBO is known for a very hands off approach to its biggest stars.

Second, I haven't read Salon in probably over a decade.

With the advent and proliferation of twitter, its easy to follow experts in a field directly. Not pundits, but actual credentialed experts who know more on a topic. Often multiple experts will comment on a given thread and you can see discussion between true experts happening. I suggest asking a few law experts(ask one that you know you disagree with politically too, get outside the bubble man) about Marbury v. Madison and how the Supreme Court is the final arbiter of what the Constitution means. And through the internet and a few different universities, you can access most any peer reviewed paper written by anyone on a given topic, for free. Wikipedia, if you follow the links at the bottom of the page, is often fairly well sourced on topics that have already had a lot of debate and have been around a long time. Let the worm holes begin.

Third, irony is dead.

[kail]

you dont need healthcare to be healthy. its not a right and no one deserves it.

It currently is a right actually, you can't be denied necessary healthcare.

[La]

America has a problem with selfishness, so most people think that, if they can afford, why should they pay taxes so EVERYONE can? Or why can some hobo who doesn't pay taxes get their shit free when they don't pay taxes, and try to justify it like that.

America will NEVER have it because of how selfish they are. Hell, I've debated this same thing and tipping, and how fucked up that is, to death.

[Rokolos]

The problem of health care is so much bigger than most people understand. Everyone wants to blame a piece of the problem with out understanding why the costs are what they are.

Advancing health care has massive costs involved. Development, studies, FDA clearance are not free. Everyone wants to see cancer cured but do they understand the cost that goes into that research?

Also any business in healthcare comes with great risk. We have all seen the class action lawsuits from hip implants. Doctors are always at risk for lawsuit, hospitals are as well. Get rid of frivolous lawsuits and lower the finacial risk of providing healthcare.

Get rid of the game between hospitals and insurance company's. When a service or product is charged from a hospital to private insurance there is a massive up charge of around 300% tacked on. On the other hand medicare, medicaid and of course uninsured people have such low reimbursement that without grants from the government there is no way to provide care to those people, pay the staff and keep the lights on.

What do you do with people who choose terrible life decisions that lead to massive healthcare bill?. If you choose to be sedentary, smoke and consume a poor diet which leads to you costing the system far more than the person who choose to take care of themselves should you not have consequences? I'm not saying all people who have higher cost are due to their choices but it is a large number that are. You would be shocked at the number of people who have surgery and then choose to ignore their post op protocol and end up back in surgery costing the system a lot more.

I'm rambling now. This a massive problem with so many moving parts its not going to be solved in a short amount of time.

[Mormolyce]

I've done my own research. I've worked in healthcare administration. I saw the clusterfuck that goes on in the backend; all the waste and inefficiencies.

To be fair every industry I've worked in has a clusterfuck behind the scenes full of waste and inefficiency. And everyone I've talked to in other industries says the same.

[oleander89]

First, John Oliver is probably the most credible voice on television regarding any policy issues, since he has no advertisers to answer to, and generally HBO is known for a very hands off approach to its biggest stars.

Second, I haven't read Salon in probably over a decade.

With the advent and proliferation of twitter, its easy to follow experts in a field directly. Not pundits, but actual credentialed experts who know more on a topic. Often multiple experts will comment on a given thread and you can see discussion between true experts happening. I suggest asking a few law experts(ask one that you know you disagree with politically too, get outside the bubble man) about Marbury v. Madison and how the Supreme Court is the final arbiter of what the Constitution means. And through the internet and a few different universities, you can access most any peer reviewed paper written by anyone on a given topic, for free. Wikipedia, if you follow the links at the bottom of the page, is often fairly well sourced on topics that have already had a lot of debate and have been around a long time. Let the worm holes begin.

Third, irony is dead.

John Oliver is a partisan hack. Do you really think Hannity would change his program because he has sponsors to answer to? Sponsors come to him because he has such a large audience. I don't even listen or watch him, but the claim you make that he is the most credible is laughable.

I follow many experts on Twitter. I am aware twitter exists. I'm not sure I follow any TV pundits. I follow a lot of evolutionary biologists and a handful of podcast hosts. I'm also aware that Wikipedia is generally well sourced and I roll my eyes at people who do not take Wikipedia as a generally credible source. I have come to different conclusions than you. We may have read different pieces and we found different things to be persuasive.

"Let the worm holes begin" Lol come the fuck on dude. You don't have access to special knowledge I haven't seen before. I was a liberal all through the Bush years and watched "The Daily Show" and "The Colbert Report" all through college. I voted for Obama in 2008. I did my research and started noticing patterns in my friends who turned out poor. I changed my beliefs and consider myself a conservatarian. I consider a lot of the Fox News and right wing pundits to still be snake oil salesmen. I still remember conservative pundits defending the patriot act and then going after Obama for NSA overreach. But to you, with your wide open mind, everyone who doesn't think like you is just some brainwashed Fox News idiot.

- - - Updated - - -

The problem of health care is so much bigger than most people understand. Everyone wants to blame a piece of the problem with out understanding why the costs are what they are.

Advancing health care has massive costs involved. Development, studies, FDA clearance are not free. Everyone wants to see cancer cured but do they understand the cost that goes into that research?

Also any business in healthcare comes with great risk. We have all seen the class action lawsuits from hip implants. Doctors are always at risk for lawsuit, hospitals are as well. Get rid of frivolous lawsuits and lower the finacial risk of providing healthcare.

Get rid of the game between hospitals and insurance company's. When a service or product is charged from a hospital to private insurance there is a massive up charge of around 300% tacked on. On the other hand medicare, medicaid and of course uninsured people have such low reimbursement that without grants from the government there is no way to provide care to those people, pay the staff and keep the lights on.

What do you do with people who choose terrible life decisions that lead to massive healthcare bill?. If you choose to be sedentary, smoke and consume a poor diet which leads to you costing the system far more than the person who choose to take care of themselves should you not have consequences? I'm not saying all people who have higher cost are due to their choices but it is a large number that are. You would be shocked at the number of people who have surgery and then choose to ignore their post op protocol and end up back in surgery costing the system a lot more.

I'm rambling now. This a massive problem with so many moving parts its not going to be solved in a short amount of time.

You aren't rambling. You actually know what you're talking about.

[Mormolyce]

John Oliver is a partisan hack.

John Oliver is a comedian.

[Holofernes]

if you think its too high then dont buy it.
if enough people do the same then the cost will go down.

you dont NEED health insurance, it isnt a human right or a right of any kind.
its a business

excert from human right declaration , United Nations, 1948

Article 1.

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Article 2.

Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Article 3.

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

and in more detail about healthcare
Article 25.

(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

[oleander89]

John Oliver is a comedian.

That's funny. Because all of my leftist friends only share his political commentary and not his jokes.

[Gestopft]

I've done my own research. I've worked in healthcare administration. I saw the clusterfuck that goes on in the backend; all the waste and inefficiencies...The costs are outrageous, but adding more bureaucracy just might not be the answer.

A single-payer system would have less overhead than the current system where there are hundreds of providers making their own negotiations within their own networks. Hospitals in other countries can operate with a fraction of the billing staff that we do.

You're so open minded, have a read at this. It explains problems with healthcare in the US and offers ideas on how to fix it. Expand your mind dudebro.

http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/st296.pdf

The paper focuses on transparency, which is only one of the reasons that healthcare is a market failure. From what I could tell, it doesn't address the other areas where market forces don't apply. Healthcare is a captive market with inelastic demand, and fixing transparency doesn't address either of those. Markets require informed choice to function efficiently, and this dynamic is severely lacking in healthcare: you don't know when you are going to need healthcare, or what conditions will require treatment- you can't choose to develop a less expensive condition, or wait to get cancer until chemotherapy is on sale. Not getting treated is generally not an option due to the detriments to one's health, so healthcare products and services can freely charge absurdly high prices because what are you going to do: not buy it and suffer the consequences?